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Universal Healthcare! Come on U.S. Get with it.

bandaidwoman

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alphieb said:
How does that justify an MD saying OK your babies lungs sound wheezy admin. albuterol with NS per neb. qid......and then get charged $60.00 to $70.00 dollars for a 15 min visit.

.

Let me break it down for you. So that's 280.00 dollars an hour. The rent here $250,000 a year for a three doctor practice, malpractice premiums, 401 retirment benefits, nurse's salary which always needs to be raised yearly despite decreasing reimbursments(medicare is cutting by another 2-3%) , health insurance coverage, unemployment insurance, workman's comp, equipment ( the albuterol meds, syringes, gowns etc. etc.). The doctor probably keeps 80 dollars of that 280 dollars for that given hour seeing 4 patients. My pediatrician makes $85,000 a year and charged $ 150.00 for my daughter's visit. She barely kept any of that since most of it went to her overhead.
 

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alphieb said:
As a mother and a nurse, and with the recent scare of SIDS and RSV etc. which is very dangerous (RSV). One would be neglectful not to take their child to the doctor. Infants cannot tell you what their symptoms are. Resp. infections are very dangerous in babies. High temps. are also dangerous as babies cannot regulate their temps. like adults can.

How does that justify an MD saying OK your babies lungs sound wheezy admin. albuterol with NS per neb. qid......and then get charged $60.00 to $70.00 dollars for a 15 min visit.

Also I have known Md's to admin. an antibiotic without even doing a culture. What if the infection is viral? Plus not ALL antibiotics are effective for ALL bacterial infections. They then charge an arm and a leg, plus induce resistance to infections by over prescrip. antibiotics.

On a different note, if someone is diabetic and has a foul smelling ulcer to their leg or foot don't you think they should run to the doctor or should they loose their leg. I'm bringing this up because you said people go to the doctor too much. You made reference to an upper viral resp. infection (viral resp. infections are rare by the way, they are usually bacterial) They start out viral (flu) and then turn bacterial if untreated (bronchitis or pneumonia). But what if that person IS a smoker and is suspects COPD? Should they just risk it? That still does not justify doctors committing theft by over charging. Most MD visits are short and sweet but cost a fortune.

Not that this is the issue, but I know viral resp. exist they just usually turn bacterial whenout of hand and untreated as defenses are down. Viral pneumonia is rare.
 

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bandaidwoman said:
No doubt some do.


But since doctor's salaries account for less than 2% of our healthcare costs we need to be looking elsewhere than blaming doctors.

The average internal medicine specialist in Gorgia makes $95,000 a year working 80-90 hours a week.( Especially the academic ones) That's not overcharging. In addition, doctors give free medical advise when on call over the phone and diagnoses and treats without charge many many times. A lawyer charges you for every minute you are on the phone with them. There are a lot of unseen work that does not get reimbursed. (For instance, a internists who rounds on a medicare patient in a nursing home gets only $35.00 a month wether she rounds one day or every single day. ) A orthodontist averages 35 hours a week and makes $300,000. That's overcharging. A airline pilot makes $200,000 a year working 11 hours a month. (But of course, lives are on the line so they can't work too much)Whoops, but then so are patient's lives on the line and outside of residency, there are no laws to protect a doctor's work hours (since patients demand 24 hour access and doctors on call). This, is unlike socialized medicine where a doctor can leave for a weekend without cross coverage by another physician during the time he is out.

To bandaidwomen,
Bull, I don't believe that, but if you think your being squeezed now, just wait until your bubble burst and we do get National Health Insurance. IT WILL HAPPEN.

I would feel as save getting medical care in Canada as here.
 

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bandaidwoman said:
No doubt some do.


But since doctor's salaries account for less than 2% of our healthcare costs we need to be looking elsewhere than blaming doctors.

The average internal medicine specialist in Gorgia makes $95,000 a year working 80-90 hours a week.( Especially the academic ones) That's not overcharging. In addition, doctors give free medical advise when on call over the phone and diagnoses and treats without charge many many times. A lawyer charges you for every minute you are on the phone with them. There are a lot of unseen work that does not get reimbursed. (For instance, a internists who rounds on a medicare patient in a nursing home gets only $35.00 a month wether she rounds one day or every single day. ) A orthodontist averages 35 hours a week and makes $300,000. That's overcharging. A airline pilot makes $200,000 a year working 11 hours a month. (But of course, lives are on the line so they can't work too much)Whoops, but then so are patient's lives on the line and outside of residency, there are no laws to protect a doctor's work hours (since patients demand 24 hour access and doctors on call). This, is unlike socialized medicine where a doctor can leave for a weekend without cross coverage by another physician during the time he is out.
I don't know any airline pilots, but I think they work more than 11 hours a month, and make less. And I am in favor of honest lawyers making the big bucks, but I stress HONEST.
I know of one who even rips off his own mother and siblings when he can.
 

bandaidwoman

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alphieb said:
To bandaidwomen,
Bull, I don't believe that, but if you think your being squeezed now, just wait until your bubble burst and we do get National Health Insurance. IT WILL HAPPEN.

I would feel as save getting medical care in Canada as here.


Don't believe me, but I am speaking from the horses mouth. You can look up any directory about doctor's salaries. I did one for a New York oncologist (median pay) , they make $130,000 a year. With cost of living, that's equivalent to $90,000 here. So they are not the millionaires you keep speaking of.


Don't get me wrong, THE AMA (American Medical Association) and myself advocate National Health Insurance coverage since the uninsured do just as much to contribute to the spiraling cost of health care. http://www.aflcio.org/issues/healthcare/ns06102005.cfm

Also, if I didn't have to pay 1/3 of my salary for malpractice (having never been sued can't imagine what it would be if I HAVE) this would not contribute to our overhead. THus, when we talk of medicine reform we need to be talking about making medical education cheaper, (so doctors aren't saddled with huge debts), tort reform so doctors don't have to garner a certain wage just to pay malpractice premiums etc.

In summary, contrary to myth (with the exception of some plastic surgeons etc.) most doctors are not millionaires (unless they are saavy businessmen and invest in other things such as real estate etc. ) and I contend, for the hours worked, make less than most specialists. (for the hours worked.)
 
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UtahBill

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I would like to see the kind of healthcare coverage funded by Uncle Sam that allows us to pay enough out of our own pockets to encourage us to live a healthy and sensible lifestyle, but never so much that we have to start selling our homes to stay alive. When we spend our entire working careers saving and investing for a pleasant retirement, we should not have to lose it all for major or life saving surgery.
There could probably be some means testing involved, and a lifestyle investigation. I have little compassion for people who are told repeatedly by their doctors to quit smoking, then get emphysema in his mid 50's like my brother did. That made him quit, tho. Somehow my parents made it into their 80's despite their heavy smoking up into their 60's, and got no illnesses directly attributable to the smoking, but my brother was not so lucky.
 

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UtahBill said:
I would like to see the kind of healthcare coverage funded by Uncle Sam that allows us to pay enough out of our own pockets to encourage us to live a healthy and sensible lifestyle, but never so much that we have to start selling our homes to stay alive. When we spend our entire working careers saving and investing for a pleasant retirement, we should not have to lose it all for major or life saving surgery.
There could probably be some means testing involved, and a lifestyle investigation. I have little compassion for people who are told repeatedly by their doctors to quit smoking, then get emphysema in his mid 50's like my brother did. That made him quit, tho. Somehow my parents made it into their 80's despite their heavy smoking up into their 60's, and got no illnesses directly attributable to the smoking, but my brother was not so lucky.


I agree, there should be some incentive for better lifestyle choices, but at the same time there should be exclusionary rule for things that are totally out of someone's control (certain cancers (glioblastoma of the brain) , genetic diseases etc.). I foresee a National Health Insurance combined with a second private insurance tier for those who opt for it.
 

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bandaidwoman said:
Don't believe me, but I am speaking from the horses mouth. You can look up any directory about doctor's salaries. I did one for a New York oncologist (median pay) , they make $130,000 a year. With cost of living, that's equivalent to $90,000 here. So they are not the millionaires you keep speaking of.


Don't get me wrong, THE AMA (American Medical Association) and myself advocate National Health Insurance coverage since the uninsured do just as much to contribute to the spiraling cost of health care. http://www.aflcio.org/issues/healthcare/ns06102005.cfm

Also, if I didn't have to pay 1/3 of my salary for malpractice (having never been sued can't imagine what it would be if I HAVE) this would not contribute to our overhead. THus, when we talk of medicine reform we need to be talking about making medical education cheaper, (so doctors aren't saddled with huge debts), tort reform so doctors don't have to garner a certain wage just to pay malpractice premiums etc.

In summary, contrary to myth (with the exception of some plastic surgeons etc.) most doctors are not millionaires (unless they are saavy businessmen and invest in other things such as real estate etc. ) and I contend, for the hours worked, make less than most specialists. (for the hours worked.)

Malpractice insurance is actually ridiculous if you ask me? It is entirely over priced and I see your point. I know all about overhead as my husband has his own office and staff as an attorney. (by the way he would not touch a malpractice suite against a doctor nor does Personal Injury). He does bankruptcies, SSD and misdemeanor criminal (not felonies). His bankruptcies are what got me going on our healthcare system. I still think medical expenses are awful high. I think there is a problem with our system (by the way, I'm not trying to beat you up). Maybe it is a two way street, doctors are over charged by malpractice Insurance and patients are over charged by doctors...the snow ball effect.
 

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bandaidwoman said:
I agree, there should be some incentive for better lifestyle choices, but at the same time there should be exclusionary rule for things that are totally out of someone's control (certain cancers (glioblastoma of the brain) , genetic diseases etc.). I foresee a National Health Insurance combined with a second private insurance tier for those who opt for it.
The lady next door just died recently from pancreatic cancer. After it was obvious that there was no hope, one of her doctors ran up some bills ordering tests and treatments that were obviously of no use. The patient did not request them and the husband was upset that the Dr. was giving her false hopes. Another lady, a friend's wife, is doing something similar, altho her condition is not fatal, just debilitating, and she is partly to blame in this case.
We as patients need to assert more control over our treatment at times, but at the same time we need to accept reality. We all have to go eventually.
I like the joke about someone who lived a perfectly healthy lifestyle and lived to be over 100 years old. He said if he had been more aware of how hard it is to live that long, and how little he was able to do once getting past 80, he would have abused his body having more fun when he was still able to.:lol:
 
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bandaidwoman

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alphieb said:
Malpractice insurance is actually ridiculous if you ask me? It is entirely over priced and I see your point. I know all about overhead as my husband has his own office and staff as an attorney. (by the way he would not touch a malpractice suite against a doctor nor does Personal Injury). He does bankruptcies, SSD and misdemeanor criminal (not felonies). His bankruptcies are what got me going on our healthcare system. I still think medical expenses are awful high. I think there is a problem with our system (by the way, I'm not trying to beat you up). Maybe it is a two way street, doctors are over charged by malpractice Insurance and patients are over charged by doctors...the snow ball effect.

I agree about the bankrupcies. It's a shame that many are triggered by medical bills and having medical insurance in this country still does not protect you since many cap their limits in the 1-5 million in terms of total individual expenditure.

I know a person who has a daughter with a rare congenital genetic disease and has already used up the 3 million dollar cap for the necessary medicines to keep her alive so they had to declare bankruptcy and put her on medicaid. Unfortunately, the shots she needs is not "covered" by medicaid either so they both work double time just paying for her medicines (although medicaid will take care of the hospital bills.) And a socilaized medical structure would not necessarily have been better for this poor girl since socialized medicine's premise is funding for the greater good of the whole. Thus, they would pay a million in good prenatal care and vaccinations than one million to supply a medicine to one girl for 5 years. It comes down to what we as Americans are willing to pay for our medical care. We have unrealsitic expectations compared to most countries.

Personally, I don't ever see us becoming socialized for the very simple reason that Americans will not give up the right to sue a doctor. You can't sue a surgeon for cutting off the wrong leg in Canada or Britain ( you can try but you are not getting anything. That's why lawsuits in the VA systems don't go far... you can't sue the government providing the free health care to veterans.)
 

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UtahBill said:
The lady next door just died recently from pancreatic cancer. After it was obvious that there was no hope, one of her doctors ran up some bills ordering tests and treatments that were obviously of no use. The patient did not request them and the husband was upset that the Dr. was giving her false hopes. Another lady, a friend's wife, is doing something similar, altho her condition is not fatal, just debilitating, and she is partly to blame in this case.
We as patients need to assert more control over our treatment at times, but at the same time we need to accept reality. We all have to go eventually.
I like the joke about someone who lived a perfectly healthy lifestyle and lived to be over 100 years old. He said if he had been more aware of how hard it is to live that long, and how little he was able to do once getting past 80, he would have abused his body having more fun when he was still able to.:lol:

Do you just disagree to disagree....you just argued with me that doctors do not over charge and that it was all warrented as they worked hard in school for it....now your being a hypocrite
 

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bandaidwoman said:
I agree about the bankrupcies. It's a shame that many are triggered by medical bills and having medical insurance in this country still does not protect you since many cap their limits in the 1-5 million in terms of total individual expenditure.

I know a person who has a daughter with a rare congenital genetic disease and has already used up the 3 million dollar cap for the necessary medicines to keep her alive so they had to declare bankruptcy and put her on medicaid. Unfortunately, the shots she needs is not "covered" by medicaid either so they both work double time just paying for her medicines (although medicaid will take care of the hospital bills.) And a socilaized medical structure would not necessarily have been better for this poor girl since socialized medicine's premise is funding for the greater good of the whole. Thus, they would pay a million in good prenatal care and vaccinations than one million to supply a medicine to one girl for 5 years. It comes down to what we as Americans are willing to pay for our medical care. We have unrealsitic expectations compared to most countries.

Personally, I don't ever see us becoming socialized for the very simple reason that Americans will not give up the right to sue a doctor. You can't sue a surgeon for cutting off the wrong leg in Canada or Britain ( you can try but you are not getting anything. That's why lawsuits in the VA systems don't go far... you can't sue the government providing the free health care to veterans.)

Many people come into my husband's office wanting to sue doctors for silly reasons and he sends them out the door. Unfortunately, you have a bunch of class action attorney's who thrive on this. It did not used to be that way in America until everybody got sue happy and then things started changing. I think that plays a part in the reason medical care has increased in price.
 

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UtahBill said:
The lady next door just died recently from pancreatic cancer. After it was obvious that there was no hope, one of her doctors ran up some bills ordering tests and treatments that were obviously of no use. The patient did not request them and the husband was upset that the Dr. was giving her false hopes. Another lady, a friend's wife, is doing something similar, altho her condition is not fatal, just debilitating, and she is partly to blame in this case.
We as patients need to assert more control over our treatment at times, but at the same time we need to accept reality. We all have to go eventually.
I like the joke about someone who lived a perfectly healthy lifestyle and lived to be over 100 years old. He said if he had been more aware of how hard it is to live that long, and how little he was able to do once getting past 80, he would have abused his body having more fun when he was still able to.:lol:

I agree. But also, were the tests spurred by fear that they would be seen as undertreating? I know quite a few doctors who feel this pressure. For instance, one orthopedist told a athlete they just strained a tendon on their knee but the patient felt he was undertreated becuase he did not order a $1500 dollar MRI of the knee.

Unfortunately, there will also always be unrealistic expectations that spur over-treatment (we hear cases of 98 year old ladies with kidney failure in respiratory shock and the family demands dialysis and artificial lifesupport etc. etc.) Do you realize over 80% - 90%of the medicare dollars are spent in the last year of a person's life? That's why other countries have age limits on artificial resusciation and candidacy for dialysis. (In england no cpr or artificial life (such as dialysis) support for those 65 and older.) Of course, there are some amazingly healthy 65 year olds who have membranous nephropathy and deserve the extra 15 years gained by dialysis in this country (I know quite a few). But those are the exceptions rather than the rule. I truly believe part of our litiginous medical culture is due to the fact that we have a problem accepting death or disability as part of the natural order of life.
 
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StillPhil said:
Isn't it about time for this?

I'm posting two articles for it, and two against it.

Take note that the articles against Universal Healthcare, despite their Compassion of Mind--mentality, they still seem to miss the mark that there are people--right now--who are suffering and need attention as soon as humanly possible. Both 'against' articles are clouded in money-worries above all else.

We don't need compassionate-conservatives or bleeding-heart-liberals. We need representatives of the people (elected officials?) who are going to wake-up to the fact that 60 to 75% of United States citizens have been asking for this for a while now.

For Universal Healthcare:
http://www.goshen.edu/bio/Biol410/bsspapers04/petergm/petergm.htm

http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm

Against Universal Healthcare:
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27085

How about I work and get healthcare that I pay for. I don't want universal healthcare. The lazy in this country get plenty without doing anything to earn it. If it's an emergency you can get care at the hospital. But I see no reason to add to the benifit pile of the chronically unemployed and the forever lazy
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
How about I work and get healthcare that I pay for. I don't want universal healthcare. The lazy in this country get plenty without doing anything to earn it. If it's an emergency you can get care at the hospital. But I see no reason to add to the benifit pile of the chronically unemployed and the forever lazy

What if you are in an almost fatal accident and have Ins., but it does not cover 20% of that. Lets say your bills amount to $200,000, you are now $40,000 in debt. You keep getting calls and threats from bill collectors. Suddenly, you have a judgement lien on your home. You cannot afford your medical bills and probably not your household bills, because your accident has put you out of work. So therefore, you file Bankruptcy.....oops, there goes your credit. Good luck buying a new home or vehicle. And if you sell your home your equity goes to your creditors. If you had $40,000 saved for a childs college.....bye....bye to that.

GOOD ONE
 

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alphieb said:
Do you just disagree to disagree....you just argued with me that doctors do not over charge and that it was all warrented as they worked hard in school for it....now your being a hypocrite
Not so. You are reading between the lines. Just working hard in school does not automatically extend into deserving high pay even after it is clear that they have lost touch with their intended purpose as physicians. I could have gone on about others. I dumped one for trying to push his own vitamin and mineral regimen on me, an expensive one at that. It was my first visit and he had very little clue as to my medical history. He had boxes of the stuff in his office, and a display set up of all the stuff that I "needed". Another "doctor", a naturopath, put a neighbor on a vitamin regimen during her pregnancy because all her children had been born a bit small, but still healthy. He knew that her first husband had died, and this pregnancy was from her second husband. The child was so large that she came close to bleeding to death during delivery, and he was slow in calling the ambulance. It was a home birth with him doing the delivery. One brand new doctor at an HMO held her stethescope to my ear after I complained of episodes of severe ringing, over and above the normal ringing that us old guys get. I even changed insurance over that one.
And Chiropractors scare the crap out of me. I am old enough to remember when they advertised being able to cure almost anything by aligning your back, and to some extent they still claim that.
Responsible treatment is a must, no matter who is paying for it.
 

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alphieb said:
What if you are in an almost fatal accident and have Ins., but it does not cover 20% of that. Lets say your bills amount to $200,000, you are now $40,000 in debt. You keep getting calls and threats from bill collectors. Suddenly, you have a judgement lien on your home. You cannot afford your medical bills and probably not your household bills, because your accident has put you out of work. So therefore, you file Bankruptcy.....oops, there goes your credit. Good luck buying a new home or vehicle. And if you sell your home your equity goes to your creditors. If you had $40,000 saved for a childs college.....bye....bye to that.

GOOD ONE

Well if I was an amazing moron your scenario might actually work. But Being an adult and smarter then a meatloaf it doesn't.

I make payment arangemnets with my debt holders, see how easy that was. If I am not working am then eligable for disability and longterm disabillity. And then I make payment arangements with my debt holders.

Of course I wouldn't be living in the house or have the 40,000 grand saved up or a decent car. My children wouldn't be going to college they would be going to work because I couldn't afford to send them if we had the universal healthcare. Cause I would be paying some pretty astronomical taxes for sub par medical care. And then when I need folow up care or other services and I have to wait. And then I wait and wait and wait for a system that is SO overloaded that it takes 6 - 8 months to get an appointment. And if I don't die before I actually see my doctor. The care is lacking to say the least because the system and the doctors are so overwhelmed with everything that they now have to deal with. :ets not forget the complete shut down of medical research and testing. No new treatments are going to comeout. Why would they, this s a capitolist society and there would be no moneyt to be made in researching and or developing new treatments and drugs. So now people are dying for lack of care and going to other countriesw to get the care they need because we no longer posses the drive or the skills to do the job. See how easy it is to paint a doomsday scenario.

So now, I can't afford anything nice, so I can pay for the terminally unemployed and forever lazy to have healthcare... NO THANKS
 

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UtahBill said:
Not so. You are reading between the lines. Just working hard in school does not automatically extend into deserving high pay even after it is clear that they have lost touch with their intended purpose as physicians. I could have gone on about others. I dumped one for trying to push his own vitamin and mineral regimen on me, an expensive one at that. It was my first visit and he had very little clue as to my medical history. He had boxes of the stuff in his office, and a display set up of all the stuff that I "needed". Another "doctor", a naturopath, put a neighbor on a vitamin regimen during her pregnancy because all her children had been born a bit small, but still healthy. He knew that her first husband had died, and this pregnancy was from her second husband. The child was so large that she came close to bleeding to death during delivery, and he was slow in calling the ambulance. It was a home birth with him doing the delivery. One brand new doctor at an HMO held her stethescope to my ear after I complained of episodes of severe ringing, over and above the normal ringing that us old guys get. I even changed insurance over that one.
And Chiropractors scare the crap out of me. I am old enough to remember when they advertised being able to cure almost anything by aligning your back, and to some extent they still claim that.
Responsible treatment is a must, no matter who is paying for it.

I ACTUALLY WENT TO A DOCTOR WHO THOUGHT YOUR ADRENAL GLANDS WERE IN YOUR NECK
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
How about I work and get healthcare that I pay for. I don't want universal healthcare. The lazy in this country get plenty without doing anything to earn it. If it's an emergency you can get care at the hospital. But I see no reason to add to the benifit pile of the chronically unemployed and the forever lazy
In case you haven't noticed, employers are slowly but surely increasing the percentage of premiums that you pay, and sometimes moving toward dropping medical benefits altogether. They have been moving away from retirement benefits for 30 years now, insisting on you having a 401K or IRA.
This has nothing to do with the lazy or chronically unemployed.
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
Well if I was an amazing moron your scenario might actually work. But Being an adult and smarter then a meatloaf it doesn't.

I make payment arangemnets with my debt holders, see how easy that was. If I am not working am then eligable for disability and longterm disabillity. And then I make payment arangements with my debt holders.

Of course I wouldn't be living in the house or have the 40,000 grand saved up or a decent car. My children wouldn't be going to college they would be going to work because I couldn't afford to send them if we had the universal healthcare. Cause I would be paying some pretty astronomical taxes for sub par medical care. And then when I need folow up care or other services and I have to wait. And then I wait and wait and wait for a system that is SO overloaded that it takes 6 - 8 months to get an appointment. And if I don't die before I actually see my doctor. The care is lacking to say the least because the system and the doctors are so overwhelmed with everything that they now have to deal with. :ets not forget the complete shut down of medical research and testing. No new treatments are going to comeout. Why would they, this s a capitolist society and there would be no moneyt to be made in researching and or developing new treatments and drugs. So now people are dying for lack of care and going to other countriesw to get the care they need because we no longer posses the drive or the skills to do the job. See how easy it is to paint a doomsday scenario.

So now, I can't afford anything nice, so I can pay for the terminally unemployed and forever lazy to have healthcare... NO THANKS

Ask someone in Canada how they feel about the quality of healthcare that they receive.

When you become a senior citizens living off SSI, tell me how you shall afford your meds or your medical deductible?

How do you know you will have to wait and wait.....Can you see into the future.

I would rather pay a little more in taxes than be bombarded with one lump some of an ASTRONOMICAL MEDICAL BILL THAT YOU PAY NOW OR BE SUED.

"People going to other countries for health care" We are one of the only industrialized Countrys that does not have NAT. HEALTHCARE. By the way, you already pay taxes for medicaid, medicare, SSI AND WELFARE. Not only do you pay taxes for medicaid, but also pay an Ins. premium.....double whammy for you.
 

Calm2Chaos

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UtahBill said:
In case you haven't noticed, employers are slowly but surely increasing the percentage of premiums that you pay, and sometimes moving toward dropping medical benefits altogether. They have been moving away from retirement benefits for 30 years now, insisting on you having a 401K or IRA.
This has nothing to do with the lazy or chronically unemployed.


Bullsht......

Healthcare costs rise as do everything else, employers are going to pass some of this off to you.

Of course this is nothing compared to what your going to pay with universal health care. Not to mention the sharp reduction in quality and response time. I really don't see the benfits of universal healthcare for the working class that have benefits already. Unless were talking about higher taxes and worse treatment... Sounds like a plan to me...
 

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alphieb said:
I ACTUALLY WENT TO A DOCTOR WHO THOUGHT YOUR ADRENAL GLANDS WERE IN YOUR NECK

Run for your life!
In further response to Calm2Chaos, disability insurance is very expensive for the odd chance that you will need it, depending on what you do. Insurance companies can be pretty stupid about that stuff. They think working with 100 yards of a construction site is enough to double your rates. They think being an operator at a nuclear power plant is twice as dangerous as the same job at a coal fired plant, while the exact opposite is true.
Granted, universal and comprehensive health care can end up being as you said, but not for sure. Even where it exists, there are still researchers seeking new drugs and treatments.
I am against it, but for a catastrophic version instead. Everything stays the same but the insurance companies no longer cover big ticket items, so they should be able to lower their rates and cover more people and end up with the same income. Our taxes will go up some to cover those big ticket illnesses, but I suspect that it won't be all that much, as percentage wise, they don't happen to that many of us. And I like the idea about the very elderly getting limited to what they can spend. Wait, I am almost 60, gonna have to think about that.;)
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
Bullsht......

Healthcare costs rise as do everything else, employers are going to pass some of this off to you.

Of course this is nothing compared to what your going to pay with universal health care. Not to mention the sharp reduction in quality and response time. I really don't see the benfits of universal healthcare for the working class that have benefits already. Unless were talking about higher taxes and worse treatment... Sounds like a plan to me...

A family plan at my old job cost $400.00 a month 80/20 with copays.....I'm sure we will all pay over $400.00 a month in taxes for NAT. Health Ins. Do you even have an Ins. plan? I don't think you really know what you are talking about.
 

Calm2Chaos

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alphieb said:
Ask someone in Canada how they feel about the quality of healthcare that they receive.

You can read about it all the time. They are not happy with it. people are dying while they wait for appoinments they made 8 months ago. The system is taxed to the limits and they have a population 32,000,000. Now lets compare that to 290,000,000 and your have a disaster oif epic proportions

alphieb said:
When you become a senior citizens living off SSI, tell me how you shall afford your meds or your medical deductible?


SSI, medicare, etc etc .. There are programs out there to help those that need it.

alphieb said:
How do you know you will have to wait and wait.....Can you see into the future.

I can look at other nations like CANADA that have this problem. Did you bother to read about it at all? It is not unheard of for canadaians to come to the US for treatment because they can't get the same quality treatment there and they can get it ina timely manner [/QUOTE]

alphieb said:
I would rather pay a little more in taxes than be bombarded with one lump some of an ASTRONOMICAL MEDICAL BILL THAT YOU PAY NOW OR BE SUED.

Are you 14? Sorry but thats not how the world works. And that not the way health insurance works. And it won't be a little more.. It will be a lot more that you will be paying. Remember your paying your share and also the shares of everyone that does not feel it a neccesity to work or earn a living.

alphieb said:
"People going to other countries for health care" We are one of the only industrialized Countrys that does not have NAT. HEALTHCARE. By the way, you already pay taxes for medicaid, medicare, SSI AND WELFARE. Not only do you pay taxes for medicaid, but also pay an Ins. premium.....double whammy for you.

And what country do you think a majority of the medical advancements and treatments come from? These other countries that you speak of aso have nothing else to actually spend there money on. Please tell me what other indutrialized country that has an economy as good as ours and responibilities economically, millitiarily and politically that come close to ours. With a population of 290,000,000 or there abouts....
 

Calm2Chaos

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alphieb said:
A family plan at my old job cost $400.00 a month 80/20 with copays.....I'm sure we will all pay over $400.00 a month in taxes for NAT. Health Ins. Do you even have an Ins. plan? I don't think you really know what you are talking about.

well you would be wrong now then wouldn't you... Kind of hard to have 2 children and not have insurance.

I will pay the money and get the better treatment and service. if its going to cost me the same to have healthcare I like and am comfortable with. as oposed to healthcare that I feel would be lacking... what exactly are the insentives for universal healthcare for the working class? If i am not going to save money whats in it for me?

Not to metion it would seem to me that you alos destroy and entire medical service. Companies that develop new drugs and treatments are either going to go belly up or leave the country. There not going to spend a billion dollars to develop new drugs that they can't make any money on to sell.
 
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