union crooks

[sawyerloggingon]

Many years ago my wife worked at a union grocery store and had a small retirement coming that we were figuring into our economic plans. She called them yesterday to ask something and found out they had pulled the rug out from under us. She was supposed to get nearly $400 a month if she took it at 59 and nearly $ 600 if she waited until 62. Now suddenly they said remember that money you were counting on? Well tough s*** you are not getting it. They cut her benefits by nearly a hundred bucks a month if she takes it at 59 and she cant get full benefits until 65 and that amount is lower too. Sheeesh what a bunch of f***** crooked bastards!

 

[digsbe]

Is it the union or the company that is cutting her retirement benefits?

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Is it the union or the company that is cutting her retirement benefits?

It's the union and the reason why IMO is because they donated so much money to democrats over the years that they are running out of money to fund their retirement program.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

It's the union and the reason why IMO is because they donated so much money to democrats over the years that they are running out of money to fund their retirement program.

Your opinion is wrong

The money is invested in various investments, and if you recall the return on investments over the last 13 years has been poor, Especially in bonds. Last but not least people are living longer, paying out benefits for longer periods of time. In other words a large number of pension plans are underfunded, which is why companies and governments are dumping pensions and going the 401K route for benefits, it limits the liability they face if returns on investments are lower then expected


Last but not least union dues are not used for the pension plan, but to fund the operation of the union, The pension plan is segregated and can not be used by the union for political funding or normal operations of the union. So if the UFCW donated money to the Democratic party it did so through the union dues, not money in the pension plan

 

[Ockham]

Your opinion is wrong

How can an opinion be "wrong"? lol

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

How can an opinion be "wrong"? lol

In my opinion 2+2 = 5

Is that a correct opinion?

Opinions can be wrong if they are stating issues that can be identified as fact, instead of something that is relative in nature

It is too cold out, is an opinion,

In my opinion the banks stole my money, is not an opinion but a declarative statement regarding a fact which can be true or untrue

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Your opinion is wrong

The money is invested in various investments, and if you recall the return on investments over the last 13 years has been poor, Especially in bonds. Last but not least people are living longer, paying out benefits for longer periods of time. In other words a large number of pension plans are underfunded, which is why companies and governments are dumping pensions and going the 401K route for benefits, it limits the liability they face if returns on investments are lower then expected

So you are saying all the union dues that went to democrats and is now gone has no effect on their retirement plan running out of money? That does not add up.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

So you are saying all the union dues that went to democrats and is now gone has no effect on their retirement plan running out of money? That does not add up.

Union dues are used to fund the operation of the union, pay the salaries, the retirement plan of people working directly for the union, strike pay and for political causes. It does not go to the pension plan of union members.


At least at the UFCW which I expect she would have been a part of. Unions for trades and construction workers I believe are different ( no specific employer to collect from as people work for different companies throughout the year

Let me run some numbers

Your wife probably worked at the store for what 10 years?

Union dues were perhaps $60-100 per month, I doubt that any union could survive giving $600 a month in retirement checks for potentially decade when collecting only such a small amount of money. Potentially 10 000 in union dues over the 10 years giving a good 120 000 in pension benefits. Sign me up for a return like that. It would just not happen. Pension plans are funded by the company and employee contributions, not union dues

 

[Ockham]

In my opinion 2+2 = 5

Is that a correct opinion?

Its factually incorrect but it's still your opinion and if it's yours I cannot state your opinion is wrong. All I can state is that your opinion is not based on fact. Do you understand the difference?

Opinions can be wrong if they are stating issues that can be identified as fact, instead of something that is relative in nature

It is too cold out, is an opinion,

In my opinion the banks stole my money, is not an opinion but a declarative statement regarding a fact which can be true or untrue

Whether the fact is true or not true is still your opinion. Opinions identify ownership - I can state the facts that form your opinion are incorrect but I cannot state your opinion is incorrect. There's a difference.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Its factually incorrect but it's still your opinion and if it's yours I cannot state your opinion is wrong. All I can state is that your opinion is not based on fact. Do you understand the difference?

Whether the fact is true or not true is still your opinion. Opinions identify ownership - I can state the facts that form your opinion are incorrect but I cannot state your opinion is incorrect. There's a difference.

If the declarative fact stated by an opinion is incorrect then the opinion is incorrect. If it is truly a subjective opinion that is based purely on my opinion then no it can not be incorrect


The following are both my opinion

Union dues are wasted opinion that can not be incorrect as it is entirely a subjective issue that depends on my determination of what wasted means

The union stole union dues to pay for political donations an opinion that may or may not be correct based on the facts which can be proven or disproven as being true or false

 

[Ockham]

If the declarative fact stated by an opinion is incorrect then the opinion is incorrect. If it is truly a subjective opinion that is based purely on my opinion then no it can not be incorrect

In order for that to be true, the person stating their opinion would a.) understand their facts are wrong b.) accept that their facts are wrong and c.) be willing to admit a and b. Until that happens, it's their opinion. It may be YOUR opinion their facts are flawed but in order for that to be true, they'd have to agree. Let's face it, you don't get many admissions and agreements on internet forums about politics. Therefore, it's MY opinion that stating someones opinion is wrong is silly. If someone wants to believe what they believe there's nothing you're going to say, no evidence you're going to provide, no declarative facts you can make that will change their minds a vast majority of the time. Lastly, it's non-productive to state someone's opinion is wrong - especially if a discussion is wanted.

I guess if you want to just push someone's buttons and use ad hominem type tactics sure... go ahead and state people's opinions are wrong. I have a feeling it won't be met well or change their opinion.

 

[Lutherf]

Many years ago my wife worked at a union grocery store and had a small retirement coming that we were figuring into our economic plans. She called them yesterday to ask something and found out they had pulled the rug out from under us. She was supposed to get nearly $400 a month if she took it at 59 and nearly $ 600 if she waited until 62. Now suddenly they said remember that money you were counting on? Well tough s*** you are not getting it. They cut her benefits by nearly a hundred bucks a month if she takes it at 59 and she cant get full benefits until 65 and that amount is lower too. Sheeesh what a bunch of f***** crooked bastards!

Lemme guess....Winco?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

In order for that to be true, the person stating their opinion would a.) understand their facts are wrong b.) accept that their facts are wrong and c.) be willing to admit a and b. Until that happens, it's their opinion. It may be YOUR opinion their facts are flawed but in order for that to be true, they'd have to agree. Let's face it, you don't get many admissions and agreements on internet forums about politics. Therefore, it's MY opinion that stating someones opinion is wrong is silly. If someone wants to believe what they believe there's nothing you're going to say, no evidence you're going to provide, no declarative facts you can make that will change their minds a vast majority of the time. Lastly, it's non-productive to state someone's opinion is wrong - especially if a discussion is wanted.

I guess if you want to just push someone's buttons and use ad hominem type tactics sure... go ahead and state people's opinions are wrong. I have a feeling it won't be met well or change their opinion.

If the facts of an opinion are provable to be wrong, and are not subjective, the person's opinion does not make it correct.

I can say Shaq is one of the tallest people in the world in my opinion. That can not be stated to be wrong as it would be based on what i believe tall means.

I can not say Shaq is the tallest person in the world in my opinion. That can be proven wrong and is not subjective.

Otherwise I can go around and say in my opinion nearly anything never be said to be wrong.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Lemme guess....Winco?

I can't remember the union but I think it's the one always trying to get into wally World, united food and commercial workers or something like that.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I can't remember the union but I think it's the one always trying to get into wally World, united food and commercial workers or something like that.

UFCW, which is the union for most grocery stores in the US and Canada. I was a member about 11 years ago