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Unfair? (1 Viewer)

Miss-X

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Hi people!

Here is something I think is a little bit "unfair". A lot of countries wants to improve the environment and so on. Here in Sweden, where I'm from, we do care about the environment a lot! We really want and try to improve it. But then we have the States, 25% of all the discharge in our atmosphere comes from the States, and it seems like that the the discharge from there is not going to be reduced. Isn't that a little bit unfair, that a little country as Sweden, which stands behind a very small procentage of discharge in the atmosphere, cares and tries to do something about it, while the States doesn't have plans for it?

/Miss-X
 
First of all the U.S. is a much much larger country than Sweden, and enacting environmental reform is much harder.300 mil and 9 mil quiet a difference eh?

yes the U.S. Should try to do something but that would indanger our robust economy.

The current ratio of 9 mil of Americans to Sweden in energy use is 35.25 to 1.
 
Even though the US has climate change on a lower priority than let's say.. Sweden, none of these countries really cares that much about the seriousness of this problem.

The world would rather wait and see, parhaps untill it's too late, than jeopardize their economy. Let me also state than the worlds economy is directly dependant on the environment.

We havn't even done enough research to even identify all of the contributers to our environmental decay. How can we be close to making even the slightest dent in the problem?
 
Simple reality...the U.S. could halt ALL emissions today, and the impact would be minimal. Developing countries have a far greater impact on Global Climate than we do at this point, and they have no hope in the immediate future of changing this dynamic... we need to accept the reality.....Earths' Climate WILL change.
 
I don't think it's us that will have to accept it, it will be our children and their children.
 
Miss-X said:
Hi people!

Here is something I think is a little bit "unfair". A lot of countries wants to improve the environment and so on. Here in Sweden, where I'm from, we do care about the environment a lot! We really want and try to improve it. But then we have the States, 25% of all the discharge in our atmosphere comes from the States, and it seems like that the the discharge from there is not going to be reduced. Isn't that a little bit unfair, that a little country as Sweden, which stands behind a very small procentage of discharge in the atmosphere, cares and tries to do something about it, while the States doesn't have plans for it?

/Miss-X

As bismitch said, USA IS FIVE MILLION ****ING TIMES LARGER, OF ****ING COURSE THERE WILL BE MORE ENVIROMENTAL DISCHARGE.
Thank you.





On further note, reading this thread was UNFAIR for my blood pressure.
 
tecoyah said:
Simple reality...the U.S. could halt ALL emissions today, and the impact would be minimal. Developing countries have a far greater impact on Global Climate than we do at this point, and they have no hope in the immediate future of changing this dynamic... we need to accept the reality.....Earths' Climate WILL change.

I am not sure how you reached that conclusion. The United States only has about 5% of the world's population, yet produced about 25% of the world's carbon emissions. China, has 21% of the world's population, yet only produces 13% of the world's carbon emissions. Developed counties, specifically, the United States, and the EU, have a far greater impact in Climate Change than developing countries. Thirty years from now, that may be different, but as it is, the problem is largely with the United States and the EU.
 
Teh masterer said:
As bismitch said, USA IS FIVE MILLION ****ING TIMES LARGER, OF ****ING COURSE THERE WILL BE MORE ENVIROMENTAL DISCHARGE.
Thank you.





On further note, reading this thread was UNFAIR for my blood pressure.

That is not really the point. In the United States, our per-capita emissions and resource usage is by far the highest in the world.
 
As bismitch said, USA IS FIVE MILLION ****ING TIMES LARGER, OF ****ING COURSE THERE WILL BE MORE ENVIROMENTAL DISCHARGE.
Thank you.

You forgot to add that you were also FIVE MILLION ****ING TIMES STU*IDER than us.

You all should be ashamed of what you say. Some people of good will try to preserve our planet (and even if the change is small, they deserve respect for the sacrifices they do) and people like you make their efforts useless because they simply don't care or are too short-minded.

If everybody made small efforts in their everyday life, the change would be much more important. Recycle your garbage. Don't waste water. Switch off the light when you don't need light. Use bicycles, public transports, or go to work by foot. Buy a car that does not pollute like a russian factory. Plant a tree in your garden. Use recycled paper. Try to reduce your garbage production. Compost. Just respect your environment.
clic
 
bub, you just insulted me. I've been a pro-environment guy for the most part. I plant lots of trees in my five acres, use compost for fertilizer and recycle. I was even thinking about solar panels(for water heating), but its too expensive.
 
Miss-X said:
Hi people!

Here is something I think is a little bit "unfair". A lot of countries wants to improve the environment and so on. Here in Sweden, where I'm from, we do care about the environment a lot! We really want and try to improve it. But then we have the States, 25% of all the discharge in our atmosphere comes from the States, and it seems like that the the discharge from there is not going to be reduced. Isn't that a little bit unfair, that a little country as Sweden, which stands behind a very small procentage of discharge in the atmosphere, cares and tries to do something about it, while the States doesn't have plans for it?

/Miss-X

I personally find it unfair that despite having only 5% of the world's population, the US is expected to provide a hugely disproportionate amout of support for the UN and NATO and is also tasked with safeguarding global security.
 
I agree it is unfair, but also please recognize that Sweden benefits from the US economy greatly. Most of the worlds products come form US corporations, although they are often manufactured in Asia. Never the less our economic power helps the whole world by acting a focal point for wealth distribution. I don’t mean giving our wealth to other people, I mean it allows other people a safe place to invest and get goods and services. So to that end Sweden isn’t totally isolated from US prosperity.

But neither is the US isolated form other countries, despite what we pretend. I don’t think the US lives up to its responsibilities to the rest of the world. We look at the fact that we give out a lot of money, but we don’t recognize that we took a lot of that to begin with from other countries. I don’t think that is necessarily wrong, after all if they don’t have the resources to process something and we do, why not go there and buy it out from them. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t hold a responsibility to said nations. And furthermore to the world. We have the power, the only power, in a lot of cases, and we need to do that right thing.

Unfortunately, US corporations would rather spend any amount of money to fight reform, they will spend more than reform costs! Why? Well because the US companies have to answer to stockholder, and said stockholders aren’t willing to see a temporary loss of income. That actually costs them more money, because when the stocks reappreciate in value they taxed on that again as income. So it is worth it to them to give up long term profits and efficency, and spend a lot of money, to prevent changing anything.

That stuff about enforcing the Kyoto treaty causing the US economy to hurt is BS. You really need to look at who is saying that and why. It is universally accepted that technology improvement creates more jobs than it destroys. The same argument against the Kyoto accords can be clearly demonstrated to be wrong , the same people said the same thing about phones and computers, and look at where we are now because we didn’t list to them!

And a few notes on global warming. We are going to see severe consequences sooner than most people think. I spoke with a climatoglist recently and have learned some very interesting, and distressing things. First of all this sea level rise stuff is pretty much BS, Antarctica isn’t going to melt, and Greenland might not melt that much. What will happen will be bad, and soon. In the next 50 years it is pretty much guaranteed that we will see two new massive deserts, and these couldn’t form in worse places. India, and the central US.

A study was commissioned to study the effects of a desert in the Central United States.. and things wont be that bad. We can still feed ourselves and export food. Not as much though. But it will hurt the economy for obvious reasons. A lot of people will lose a lot of money very quickly. India is pretty much dead, there will be a narrow subtropical region along the coasts, but the interior depends on the glacial melt from the Himalayans, which won’t be there anymore. So their population will either be displaced, or die off. So a country of over a billion people will only be able to support 5% of their populations water needs. India is the US’s only counter, economically or militarily, to China.
 
RightatNYU said:
I personally find it unfair that despite having only 5% of the world's population, the US is expected to provide a hugely disproportionate amout of support for the UN and NATO and is also tasked with safeguarding global security.
Some people said it was unfair for states to have disporportionate power over others because of population, or simply by virtue of being a state. Hence the Senate and the House. I don't see much difference here, 5% of people doesn't mean 5% of the wealth. The US has the most of gain by having groups like UN and NATO.
 
Morrow said:
Some people said it was unfair for states to have disporportionate power over others because of population, or simply by virtue of being a state. Hence the Senate and the House. I don't see much difference here, 5% of people doesn't mean 5% of the wealth. The US has the most of gain by having groups like UN and NATO.
How does the US have the most to gain by being a part of the UN or NATO?
 
Well whats unfair is that any slight environmental change that happens is going to be blamed on us. If its a little warmer in the summer, its global warming, if its a little colder in the winter, its global warming( oh and Bush's fault too)
Sure we have an impact on the environment, but its not as if we have ruined the enitre world. The earth is always, and will always go through cycles of heat and cold. We could go move to a different galaxy and the earth would have Ice ages, and warmer times all without our influence.
Should we look at alternative sources, sure. Oil is not a renewable rescource, thus cannot last forever, but alternative source places need to make it readily availabe and affordable before anyone will jump on it. I am not going to drive 65 miles to go fill up with corn based oil. Nor am I going to pay 5 dollars a gallon for it just so my minute impact, that the planet hardly responds to, will be lessened.
 
RightatNYU said:
I personally find it unfair that despite having only 5% of the world's population, the US is expected to provide a hugely disproportionate amout of support for the UN and NATO and is also tasked with safeguarding global security.

Come on Right, your smarter than that.

We have 5% of the world's population, yet we consume 30% of the world's resource production every year. Thus, it only makes sense that our contribution would be disproportionate.

Moreover, in the age of globalism, we have more to gain and / or loose than any other nation on earth in terms of global security.
 
Morrow said:
The US has the most of gain by having groups like UN and NATO.

This is categorically untrue.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Come on Right, your smarter than that.

I think you overestimate me...:2razz:
We have 5% of the world's population, yet we consume 30% of the world's resource production every year.

So? This stat is often bandied around as if it means something. Yes, we consume lots of resources that we both produce and pay for. How does that somehow obligate us to shed the blood of our soldiers to protect the lives of countries that have nothing to do with us? Bosnia? Haiti? Korea? WWII? We fought in these conflicts not to gain land, but to win freedom for others. There is no reason we should be contributing so much to the UN/Nato (not even counting the billions of dollars in lost value from the land the UN sits on), when we get so little back.

Moreover, in the age of globalism, we have more to gain and / or loose than any other nation on earth in terms of global security.

Yes we do, and thats why I think it's a shame that we spend so much on the UN when it's so horribly ineffective.
 
RightatNYU said:
Yes we do, and thats why I think it's a shame that we spend so much on the UN when it's so horribly ineffective.

Any sane CEO would have quit spending money on something as ineffective as the UN about 30 years ago. Either that or require that it start doing what it is supposed to be doing. Its one thing to "condemn" an act, or "impose sanctions", but then when you don't enforce the very laws you just passed, you become a joke. Its like telling a child they are going to get a spanking when they get home, and then never delivering the promise. The first few times the kid is scared, but then it just figures out after a while you don't mean what you say, and does whatever the hell it wants without fear of repercussion.
 

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