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Unemployment Extension "died in the Senate"

The Giant Noodle

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This is horrible for MANY legal Americans across the nation! This includes myself :(
States struggle to pass budgets without stimulus - Business - msnbc.com

Im very sure there are people that take advantage of this situation. They have a wife or husband that also works so the other half doesnt have to seek employment ASAP. Thats probably 10%-15% of the people on the program. What about the REST of the people!? As for me Ive been on for about 6 months and I havent found anyone that has accepted me. Ive been on interviews (not many) and... nothing. Im afraid Im going to lose EVERYTHING because of this. Its not like I can get a minimum $ job and pay my bills! And guess what.... even so, most ALL the jobs at that pay are filled by mexicans, legal and illegal.
No wonder why the suicide rates are up!
 

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I believe Congress' decision not to renew unemployment benefits is politically short-sighted. Rather than yet again waiving modest Medicare fiscal discipline, the Congress should have adopted a clean bill that extended unemployment benefits. Finding $16 billion in budgetary offsets should not have been politically difficult considering the importance of extending the unemployment benefits. Unlike some of the milder recent recessions (1990-91 and 2001), the recent severe recession inflicted a significant structural component to unemployment. Certain jobs will not be restored to previous levels even after the economy has recovered. An extension benefits can smooth the transition for many of those facing long-duration unemployment.

The following two tables provide a glimpse of what has been happening:

Table 1. Selected labor force and unemployment measures by age, 2007–09 annual averages

Table 2. Selected labor force flows by age, 2007–2009 annual averages (Percent)
 

Aunt Spiker

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The only thing I get worked up over is that PEOPLE - hard working people - are not the PROBLEM or CAUSE of all this mess. . . but suffer the most.

Bureaucracy red tape, government brainlessness, political turf wars, lobbyists, self interest groups and so on - all these are the reason why the economy was built on sand, why it crumbled, why it still hasn't recovered and why states are in the hole, why companies failed and people are out of work.

But, of course, the buck gets passed onto the little guy even though EVERYONE ELSE in the situation is to blame.

If everyone ELSE had done their jobs even 1/2 right - which includes trying to PREVENT this type of situation from happening - then we wouldn't be in a the damn ****ter right now.
 
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VanceMack

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This is horrible for MANY legal Americans across the nation! This includes myself :(
States struggle to pass budgets without stimulus - Business - msnbc.com

Im very sure there are people that take advantage of this situation. They have a wife or husband that also works so the other half doesnt have to seek employment ASAP. Thats probably 10%-15% of the people on the program. What about the REST of the people!? As for me Ive been on for about 6 months and I havent found anyone that has accepted me. Ive been on interviews (not many) and... nothing. Im afraid Im going to lose EVERYTHING because of this. Its not like I can get a minimum $ job and pay my bills! And guess what.... even so, most ALL the jobs at that pay are filled by mexicans, legal and illegal.
No wonder why the suicide rates are up!
I am not without empathy to the plight of the unemployed. At the same time, creating a permanent dole simply creates more crippled and dependent pets. There are far too many people that refuse to do any and every menial task required to provide for their family and will instead sit on their ass and wait for the 'right' job. An open ended government dole will do far more damage than good. the government nor the rest of the productive members of society are not responsible to provide FOR people. And if you really truly want to work then insist that your elected representatives resolve the illegal immigrant problem and the drain that creates on our society and the jobs it takes from people like you who Im sure would do anything to earn a living.
This problem will not just amgically go away. MORE government intervention, more taxes, more government spending will INCREASE unemployment and ensure people like you stay stuck on unemployment. Because whether you admit it or not...the politicians you support WANT you there. they WANT you dependent on them for your support.
 

Gipper

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Beautifully put, VM.

The government is using this as a closed fist with one hand and an open palm in the other. Their policies are keeping employment down, all the while constantly extending benefits which will drain us.
 

The Giant Noodle

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Beautifully put, VM.

The government is using this as a closed fist with one hand and an open palm in the other. Their policies are keeping employment down, all the while constantly extending benefits which will drain us.
I view it as not a fist or a hand. More like a finger
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Would not the place for someone who has been unemployed for an extended period of time be to go on welfare rather then continually extend unemployement benifits?
 

Aunt Spiker

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Would not the place for someone who has been unemployed for an extended period of time be to go on welfare rather then continually extend unemployement benifits?
Not really.

Eventhough the purpose of welfare is to assist when someone's income is under ___ amount welfare doesn't cover a lot of things that these people need to pay for: mortgage, vehicle costs, medical coverage (only pregnant women and children are covered by medicare) and so on . . . it would be best not to put these people on a reduced and quippy form of government support when it was the failed company which put them out of work to begin with.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Not really.

Eventhough the purpose of welfare is to assist when someone's income is under ___ amount welfare doesn't cover a lot of things that these people need to pay for: mortgage, vehicle costs, medical coverage (only pregnant women and children are covered by medicare) and so on . . . it would be best not to put these people on a reduced and quippy form of government support when it was the failed company which put them out of work to begin with.
Unemployment is generally supposed to be temporary though, not a long term income support program. I could see 1/2 - 1 year of unemployement benifits being acceptable, but more then that is pushing it in my opinion
 

the makeout hobo

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Unemployment is generally supposed to be temporary though, not a long term income support program. I could see 1/2 - 1 year of unemployement benifits being acceptable, but more then that is pushing it in my opinion
What if the job market is as depressed as it seems to be now?
 

Lord Tammerlain

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What if the job market is as depressed as it seems to be now?
Then you start getting rid of things you cant afford to keep, like the home with the large mortgage, the two cars and so on.

You then go on welfare for a period of time untill you find a job
 

cpwill

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excellent. now we can get back to getting people in jobs.
 

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I am not without empathy to the plight of the unemployed. At the same time, creating a permanent dole simply creates more crippled and dependent pets. There are far too many people that refuse to do any and every menial task required to provide for their family and will instead sit on their ass and wait for the 'right' job. An open ended government dole will do far more damage than good. the government nor the rest of the productive members of society are not responsible to provide FOR people. And if you really truly want to work then insist that your elected representatives resolve the illegal immigrant problem and the drain that creates on our society and the jobs it takes from people like you who Im sure would do anything to earn a living.
This problem will not just amgically go away. MORE government intervention, more taxes, more government spending will INCREASE unemployment and ensure people like you stay stuck on unemployment. Because whether you admit it or not...the politicians you support WANT you there. they WANT you dependent on them for your support.
Just curious, what are your views on underemployment?
 

VanceMack

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Just curious, what are your views on underemployment?
Been there...it sucked. Decided I'd work the three jobs to be able to provide for my family and go to school, then the school and 2 jobs, then advanced degrees, retired from one, got a great job using that experience and now have my own consulting business as well.
 

imagep

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I am not without empathy to the plight of the unemployed. At the same time, creating a permanent dole simply creates more crippled and dependent pets. There are far too many people that refuse to do any and every menial task required to provide for their family and will instead sit on their ass and wait for the 'right' job. An open ended government dole will do far more damage than good. the government nor the rest of the productive members of society are not responsible to provide FOR people. And if you really truly want to work then insist that your elected representatives resolve the illegal immigrant problem and the drain that creates on our society and the jobs it takes from people like you who Im sure would do anything to earn a living.
This problem will not just amgically go away. MORE government intervention, more taxes, more government spending will INCREASE unemployment and ensure people like you stay stuck on unemployment. Because whether you admit it or not...the politicians you support WANT you there. they WANT you dependent on them for your support.
Ditto. good post.
 

The Giant Noodle

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Been there...it sucked. Decided I'd work the three jobs to be able to provide for my family and go to school, then the school and 2 jobs, then advanced degrees, retired from one, got a great job using that experience and now have my own consulting business as well.
Really? 3 jobs plus school? How did you afford the schooling? What were the hours of your jobs AND your school? How did you even schedule all of them? I dont see how anyone can handle even 2 jobs, then spend 4 hours after that for schooling time-wise. Money-wise I dont see it either. Not if youre other half isnt working too. You must be Super-human because Ive never seen nor heard such a thing. I do hear Rush Limbaugh saying thats what people should do though.

Its a mentally exhausting experience to just have ONE job while going to college. Plus a money-draining experience too.

Try to find one low paying job that wants a 40 year old worker with a IT Sales Management background...... that is hard enough. 6 months Ive been told 4 times Im over qualified. They KNOW if a good job comes my way Im gone the next day. PLUS they (the current manager) doesnt want me being better than THEY are. NO company will hire me for those jobs. Ive been trying for months.
Then you toss in 2 MORE jobs (because that one crappy job aint paying my bills) which are supposed to line up with the jobs schedules??????? And THEN you STILL have money to go to college? And you still have TIME for college? How are you not mentally destroyed after those 3 jobs??? (even IF you could get them)
 
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VanceMack

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Really? 3 jobs plus school? How did you afford the schooling? What were the hours of your jobs AND your school? How did you even schedule all of them? I dont see how anyone can handle even 2 jobs, then spend 4 hours after that for schooling time-wise. Money-wise I dont see it either. Not if youre other half isnt working too. You must be Super-human because Ive never seen nor heard such a thing. I do hear Rush Limbaugh saying thats what people should do though.
3 jobs to provide for the family and pay for school. 2 jobs while in school. I am in post grad NOW and work full time Monday through Thursday, 7 AM to 5:30 as well as part time consulting. During my Masters program I worked full time civil service and 4-6 hours 3-4 days in the evenings. School was Wednesday nights or Thursday nights...6 week classes. Including online courses (Non-trad university program). Satisfied? I can mail you transcripts and tax returns...

What do you want...what are you willing to do to get it. Pretty simple. I wasnt satisfied with 'OK' . I did a lousy job of prepping for my future as a young man. Im making up for it today.
 

VanceMack

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Really? 3 jobs plus school? How did you afford the schooling? What were the hours of your jobs AND your school? How did you even schedule all of them? I dont see how anyone can handle even 2 jobs, then spend 4 hours after that for schooling time-wise. Money-wise I dont see it either. Not if youre other half isnt working too. You must be Super-human because Ive never seen nor heard such a thing. I do hear Rush Limbaugh saying thats what people should do though.
Oh...BTW...the other half just completed her masters and teaches at a university...worked full time as an adjunct while in the program.

Heck I still had time to get in the occasional round of golf and to fish.

If you want it...and are willing to accomplish it...its not that hard. Non trad university programs offer classes full time Friday evenings and all day Saturday, every 3 weeks. Some offer classes that meet 4 hours one time a week with 6 week classes...thats 3 full time classes in a semester. People are their only obstacle to success. I never had a class in a non-trad setting that had ANYONE that was 'just' a student. Most of them were working full time professional jobs. Again...its not as hard as you might think. Hard work...yes. EMINENTLY doable.

(and OHBYTHEWAY...in EVERY CLASS I have had there has been a pretty fair mixture of men, women, straight, gays, whites, blacks, hispanics, hell a few Columbians thrown in the mix every once in a while-and all of varying ages. Point being...ANYONE...ANYONE can succeed.)
 
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The Giant Noodle

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If you want it...and are willing to accomplish it...its not that hard. Non trad university programs offer classes full time Friday evenings and all day Saturday, every 3 weeks. Some offer classes that meet 4 hours one time a week with 6 week classes...thats 3 full time classes in a semester. People are their only obstacle to success. I never had a class in a non-trad setting that had ANYONE that was 'just' a student. Most of them were working full time professional jobs. Again...its not as hard as you might think. Hard work...yes. EMINENTLY doable.
Like I said, I dont see it being realistic. No one will hire me for ONE crap job. But you have 3 plus school. Plus family. Where do you live where the job market is so wonderful?
I have 4 friends all out of work. THEY cant get jobs, so youre "its easy" remark is bull****. I live in reality here. Hell I looked to see if I can get a grant..... nope. I already have a Business Degree. If someone has a Bach degree already they cant get a grant. My credit is shot so I cant get a loan.
THEN..... there is getting into college. I want to go into health care. You need a Masters in chicago for the jobs I want. I dont have money for that!!!!!!! Plus I 1st have to just get accepted!!!!! And since my credits are so old about 19 years..... I would have to take a remedial bull**** courses again like math and English. But it doesnt matter because I have nothing in the bank! I cant pay for schooling!
Pretty ****ing soon I wont be able to ****ing pay for my ****ing RENT!
Im sorry man but when I hear these stories and then someone says "its easy" I want to punch their ****ing teeth in. Ive been busting my ass looking for work. Hell I was even going to take a landscaping job for minimum wage and even THEY didnt hire me.... most likely because I have degenerative disc disease and they saw it when I worked with them for a trial day.

You have NOOOOOO idea how tough it is!!!! You must have some magic horseshoe up your ass for great luck because none of what you say is remotely possible for me. Youre damn right Im jealous!!!!! I would LOOOOVE to go back to school!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Re-train myself and get out of sales.
I would like to find at least ONE job that pays the bills but I will take 2 if need be and try some side work on the weekends. Vance you realllllly pissed me off. Its hurtful to hear "oh... yeah I got 3 job and OH... Im going to college.... and it all worked out perfectly OH!!!! and its EASY". When Ive have been working so hard to get just one GOOD job when I already have a degree and then I try to get crappy jobs to replace a GOOD job and I cant even get THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God DAMNIT!!!! I feel like kicking my cat!!!!!!!! :soap:soap:soap
 

VanceMack

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Noodle Dude...Im not trying to piss you off...impress you...nothing. A question was asked about how I feel about underemployment...I answered. You doubted my response...I clarified. When I worked three jobs I worked a full time job from 7 to 4. Prior to going to work (military-and believe me...it opened a lot of doors...I get that) I went to a construction site ( a friend of mine was a general contractor). I laid forms...then went to work. After I got off duty I went to my job at 7-11. After I got off...usually around 11...I drove back to the site...kicked the form boards off and loaded them on the trailer and went home...caught about 4-5 hours sleep...did it again. I didnt work every night at the sev...usually 2 during the week and 2 on weekends. Later I dropped the two part time jobs for a full time OCR job that I could work totally on my schedule.

In another state I worked that same full time job, had a part time schedule at Taco Hell and a part time gig at Subway. It wasnt easy...but it was what was required. I worked fast food til I was 37.

I dont pretend to know the job market in Illinois. I am sure I would have had a much harder time in say...Detroit. I know a bit about the job market in Florida...Mississippi...Texas...Washington. If you are doing all you can then I feel for you. i understand the struggles. I didnt have a family so I didnt have the silver spoon. I had to pay for school or pay off student loans. It helped having a long term plan in place. Luckily my work helped us pay off my wifes school as she went.

BTW...you might notice the time hack. I just submitted the first assignment for my last class in my program. I have to be up in 4 hours. Its not easy...but for me...its doable and worth it.
 
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Kushinator

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Been there...it sucked. Decided I'd work the three jobs to be able to provide for my family and go to school, then the school and 2 jobs, then advanced degrees, retired from one, got a great job using that experience and now have my own consulting business as well.
I never asked for anecdotes. Do you believe underemployment is "positive" for labor markets at this stage? If so, explain your reasoning.
 
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Aunt Spiker

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20 million illegals seem to find work...
Well that's because - since they're illegals - they get paid what would be an *illegal* wage for a citizen-laborer. Thus, they also don't receive overtime or benefits that are the norm and/or soon to be federally mandated (like health insurance) and so on.

Thus - unless someone is willing to work for 0 benefits at an insufficient wage (what's it - $2.00/hr or something?) then they're likely to NOT take those jobs.

The employers need to pay *at least* a decent wage - and since these types of employers have no interest in doing so, they will continue to secretly employ illegals to save theirselves money.
 

VanceMack

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I never asked for anecdotes. Do you believe underemployment is "positive" for labor markets at this stage? If so, explain your reasoning.
You'd have to be more specific. If you mean underemployment as in fast food workers getting paid minimum wage and that isnt a 'livable' wage then I would say...and? Its not a job MEANT to be a livable wage job....its a job meant to provide entry level work, typically done by teens or as a source of second income...not a job done by a homeowner providing for a family. If you mean underemployment as in the jobs given to people and paid under the table without paying taxes, unemployment benefits, etc...thats an entirely different kettle of fish. So...to what are you referring?
 

Aunt Spiker

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Then you start getting rid of things you cant afford to keep, like the home with the large mortgage, the two cars and so on.

You then go on welfare for a period of time untill you find a job
It's not that simple to abandon your life and debt. . . if it was then even *more* people would be doing it.

You can't sell your house back to the bank if you can't afford it - if you can't afford your current standard of living you have limited choices and each option has dire consequences that don't jsut affect you and your family - they effect the home and auto market/the government and everyone else.

1) Bankruptcy - if you still owe on loans (auto, school), credit cards, medical expenses:
.....by filing for bankruptcy you have 2 options - Chapter 7 and Chapter 13.
Chapter 7: your assets are liquidated (sold off) to repay what you can't pay out of pocket.
Chapter 13: your debt is consolidated and you pay a lump sum each month to cover that- it's like a government-ok'd debt consolidation loan but with more strings attached and a longer bad after-effect.

Problem 1) Your credit will plummet. Without credit you're far less likely to qualify for a new loan and so on - even some job opportunities will be shut off from you.
Problem 2) If your credit doesn't take a swan dive you, still, might be barred for quite a long time from drawing out a new loan for a vehicle, home, even schooling. . . bankruptcy seems to solve a few issues but it causes many others.

What will benefit your family more - filing for bankruptcy because the job market is **** and letting go of your only assets in life - or staying on unemployment benefits and bringing some sort of income - yet still altering your life (letting go of cable, etc)?

2) Foreclosure (home/business) and repossession (auto/all other items)- this is when you just stop paying and let the bank take what you have - like an unfiled Chapter 7 bankruptcy. They take it - you no longer own it - and when they resell it that makes up for your debt-ducking.

Problem 1) Same thing with bankruptcy - credit plummets - but a foreclosure stays on your record FAR longer than a bankruptcy.
Problem 2) Same thing with bankruptcy - if your credit doesn't somehow plummet you will still more than likely be denied for a new loan for an auto/home. . . While a new home might not be smart or a necessity - there's nothing illegal about being turned down from an apartment, duplex or home rental if you have bad credit. . . I've been turned away from renting an apartment due to bad credit in the past. . . and it takes time *and money* to fix bad credit.
Problem 3) The Housing market, due to foreclosures, fell over on itself - the banks don't want to own your home and once they do own your home they have no one to get rid of it to - no one's buying.

3) Selling off your own assets.

Problem 1) You can't just drive your car to the dealer and say "here, buy it back!" - you have to find a buyer for a vehicle that you still owe on. . . which is harder in a market where people have *less* money to go around.
Extension to this - you can trade your vehicle in at a dealership - but your remaining balance on your current loan is just rolled into your new loan for a new vehicle which definitely won't save you money . . . so your better bet is to just keep it until it's paid off.
Problem 2) Same thing with a home - you have to be able to sell it off, which takes a lot of time - if you don't have money and your unemployment benefits are running dry - how much time do you have?
Problem 3) The housing market has failed and has yet to regain itself - someone's home bought 5 years ago for 90,000 or 200,000 is worth LESS than that, now - by selling - they lose money and might even still OWE on the home.

The problem, right now, isn't *just* that people have lost jobs and some are lazy and not even looking for work. The problem is that there is no work - and all options are ****ty with long-lasting negative effects.

If it's not someone's personal *fault* that they no longer are gainfully employed then they shouldn't have to make their entire family SUFFER by giving up all that they know, own and did work hard for.
 
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