Understanding Religion

[Angel]

Understanding Religion: Hinduism


New Atheism, as we all know, is the know-it-all dismissal of what New Atheists do not in the least understand -- namely, religion.

No surprise there.

After all, the High Guru of New Atheism, Richard Dawkins, provided the model in this regard; his lack of religious understanding is profound.

Indeed, the appeal of New Atheism to a certain cast of mind lies precisely here, in its solid grounding in ignorance of religion.

As represented by New Atheism, the ongoing public insult to older more thoughtful forms of atheism must needs cease, that the dialogue between an informed skepticism and religious faith might be rid of its present shrillness and stupidity.

The aim of this thread is above all to strike a blow against the valorization of ignorance popularized by New Atheism, and to achieve this aim by striking a blow in the cause of understanding religion.

Why Hinduism?

I am a Christian, a Roman Catholic, and needless to say my connection to the Ultimate Spiritual Reality of the world has been by way of Christianity; nevertheless, I have an enduring interest in the other major religions of the world, particularly Eastern religions, and I hope to satisfy my intellectual curiosity, and perhaps stimulate such interest in others, in the course of this thread, starting with Hinduism.

At its deepest level Hinduism appears to be profoundly philosophical and non-theistic.

At that profound metaphysical level Hinduism seems to dovetail with modern physical science.

There's matter to conjure with, pun intended.

Please Note:

I post this thread in "Beliefs and Skepticism" rather than in "Philosophy" or "Theology" for two reasons:
First, because Hinduism is both philosophy and theology, and to privilege either aspect over the other is to misrepresent Hinduism;
Second, because the broader purpose of the thread is not to promote this or that faith, but to understand religion in general, and Hinduism serves merely as a starting point. Next up: Buddhism.








Vocabulary:

Vedas
Upanishads
Bhagavad Gita

Brahman
Atman
Maya
Karma
Dharma
Samsara
Moksha

Vishnu
Krishna
Brahma

Questions:

Based on what you have learned from the videos, would you say that Hinduism is monotheistic, polytheistic, or non-theistic in its core beliefs?
Please explain your answer.

How does the physical world figure into the world-view of Hinduism?

If you are Hindu or have studied Hinduism, would you kindly share your insight into Hinduism with us?

If you are an atheist, what aspects of Hinduism do you find most appealing?



Namaste​

 

[slightlyperfect]

If any assertion is faith-based, it should be disregarded. And while I have a degree in religious studies, and have studied Eastern philosophy and theology at length, Hinduism fits that criterion.

There is natural information that is available to everybody regardless of any so-called "divine inspiration," so even those more-secular assertions can be disregarded.

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

 

[Angel]

If any assertion is faith-based, it should be disregarded....

Wherefore disregarded?

 

[Angel]

I ♥ JAY LAKHANI

 

[gfm7175]

If any assertion is faith-based, it should be disregarded.

So all properly basic beliefs should be disregarded?

 

[Angel]

 

[Angel]

 

[devildavid]

So all properly basic beliefs should be disregarded?

Well first, you need to explain what a properly basic belief is.

 

[gfm7175]

Well first, you need to explain what a properly basic belief is.

It would be a belief that we justifiably accept as true without having proper inferential evidence for such. The existence of minds other than our own would be one example of a properly basic belief. The general reliability of our own memories would be another example. WLC explains it here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b7pQ3v4T2A

 

[devildavid]

It would be a belief that we justifiably accept as true without having proper inferential evidence for such. The existence of minds other than our own would be one example of a properly basic belief. The general reliability of our own memories would be another example. WLC explains it here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b7pQ3v4T2A

All that I know is that I physically exist and other people physically exist. I don't know what you mean by other minds.

Our memories may or may not be reliable. It depends on the physical condition of our brain, the place where all our memories are physically stored.

 

[Angel]

All that I know is that I physically exist and other people physically exist. I don't know what you mean by other minds.

Our memories may or may not be reliable. It depends on the physical condition of our brain, the place where all our memories are physically stored.

You only believe you physically exist. All you know is mind.

You believe your memories are stored in your brain? There's a bridge here in NYC I'd like to sell you.

 

[devildavid]

You only believe you physically exist. All you know is mind.

You believe your memories are stored in your brain? There's a bridge here in NYC I'd like to sell you.

Nope, I know I physically exist. Memories are stored in specific areas of the brain. Where do you think they are stored? How do you think they are accesed? We use the same brain to keep living as we do for remembering things. It is the control center of the human body. Physical damage and disease causes an inability to access memory, which happens with dementia and Alzheimer's. I'm glad that medical science understands this fact as someday they may find a physical way to prevent or cure it and improve our quality of life.

 

[Angel]

Nope, I know I physically exist. Memories are stored in specific areas of the brain. Where do you think they are stored? How do you think they are accesed? We use the same brain to keep living as we do for remembering things. It is the control center of the human body. Physical damage and disease causes an inability to access memory, which happens with dementia and Alzheimer's. I'm glad that medical science understands this fact as someday they may find a physical way to prevent or cure it and improve our quality of life.

Yup, you only believe you physically exist. All you know is mind. Memories are stored in the mind. Your brain is in the mind. Time to open it up.

 

[devildavid]

Yup, you only believe you physically exist. All you know is mind. Memories are stored in the mind. Your brain is in the mind. Time to open it up.

Mind is not a thing, it is a made up word. The brain is a thing, whether we named it that or not. All anyone knows is what their particular physical nervous system and brain is capable of knowing. A person born brain damaged is limited in their capacity to know anything. Their limited abilities does not change physical reality. They can't grasp your concept of mind, nor do they need to, because their existence does not depend on it.

 

[Angel]

Mind is not a thing, it is a made up word. The brain is a thing, whether we named it that or not. All anyone knows is what their particular physical nervous system and brain is capable of knowing. A person born brain damaged is limited in their capacity to know anything. Their limited abilities does not change physical reality. They can't grasp your concept of mind, nor do they need to, because their existence does not depend on it.

Oy! All words are made up, including "brain" and "science" and "physical." And "thing"! What is a "thing"?

 

[Angel]

 

[crazyme]

............ mispost. sorry..

 

[crazyme]

These are not 'gods' more so than they are Cherubs or other holy Beings from The Kingdom of God.

Ezekiel 10:20-22 "This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims. 21Every one had four faces apiece, and every one four wings; and the likeness of the hands of a man was under their wings. 22And the likeness of their faces was the same faces which I saw by the river of Chebar, their appearances and themselves: they went every one straight forward."


And just imagine how the members in those countries might have used God's holy Beings against mankind... it is frightening.

but remember that none of these (the portraits, statues, etc) 'live'. They do not breathe, they do not eat, they do not smell, etc.... These are probably best if not 'formed' by man but kept in mind. An example... The portraits of Jesus Christ. He most often than not has long hair. But in The Holy Bible, it says that it is a shame for man to have long hair. 1 Corinthians 11:14 "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?"

 

[gfm7175]

All that I know is that I physically exist and other people physically exist. I don't know what you mean by other minds.

But you don't know that other people exist in the same way/format that you exist. That's the point... To clarify, I will give you the top google definition for "mind"... the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought.

If you believe that other minds exist beyond your own, then that is a properly basic belief (a belief not grounded in inferential evidence).

Our memories may or may not be reliable. It depends on the physical condition of our brain, the place where all our memories are physically stored.

That's true, except for the last part, but the varying degrees of reliability of those memories don't change the fact that they are properly basic beliefs... It just means that those properly basic beliefs might have defeaters.

 

[devildavid]

But you don't know that other people exist in the same way/format that you exist. That's the point... To clarify, I will give you the top google definition for "mind"... the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought.

If you believe that other minds exist beyond your own, then that is a properly basic belief (a belief not grounded in inferential evidence).


That's true, except for the last part, but the varying degrees of reliability of those memories don't change the fact that they are properly basic beliefs... It just means that those properly basic beliefs might have defeaters.

Every belief is not a properly basic belief, which really doesn't mean anything at all. Some beliefs are flat out wrong. Some beliefs are superstitions. Not everything we think about is a belief. I don't have a belief in my existence, I simply exist. All that the definition of mind shows is that man created a concept called mind and decided what it meant. It doesn't describe the physical means that the mind concept is dependent upon; the use of our nervous system and brains to come up with concepts. The problem is confusing the concept with the physical reality with the use of metaphoric language.

 

[devildavid]

Oy! All words are made up, including "brain" and "science" and "physical." And "thing"! What is a "thing"?

No, brain is a word used to describe an actual physical thing. Lots of words are just to label physical "things". Mind is word used as a conept that does not describe a physical thing, but is more a metaphoric way of describing that we think and are consious. You can't use the word mind to show that mind is an actual thing that exists. It is just palying word games. But for those who wish to make things up, words become their own evidence.

 

[Angel]

Mind is not a thing, it is a made up word. The brain is a thing, whether we named it that or not. All anyone knows is what their particular physical nervous system and brain is capable of knowing. A person born brain damaged is limited in their capacity to know anything. Their limited abilities does not change physical reality. They can't grasp your concept of mind, nor do they need to, because their existence does not depend on it.

Oy! All words are made up, including "brain" and "science" and "physical." And "thing"! What is a "thing"?

No, brain is a word used to describe an actual physical thing. Lots of words are just to label physical "things". Mind is word used as a conept that does not describe a physical thing, but is more a metaphoric way of describing that we think and are consious. You can't use the word mind to show that mind is an actual thing that exists. It is just palying word games. But for those who wish to make things up, words become their own evidence.

You're just grinding your physicalist axe again. There are noise ordinances, you know. Pollute on your side of the tracks. All words are made up, and your criticism of this or that word as "made up" is just plain silly and the silliness leads to self-contradiction. Look to it.

 

[devildavid]

You're just grinding your physicalist axe again. There are noise ordinances, you know. Pollute on your side of the tracks. All words are made up, and your criticism of this or that word as "made up" is just plain silly and the silliness leads to self-contradiction. Look to it.

And you purposely ignore how words are actually used. Words that describe things are different in nature than words used as concepts. A rutabaga could be named anything we decide, but whatever we decide will always refer to that physical edible root. The word mind does not refer to any agreed upon physical thing and is used conceptually or metaphorically. You know this but prefer to resort to the nah nah nah all words are made up silliness.

 

[gfm7175]

Every belief is not a properly basic belief, which really doesn't mean anything at all.

Look again. I never asserted this, and I would suggest looking into what properly basic beliefs are and what is so interesting about them. I realize that it goes against your belief that everything is physical and everything can be inferentially proven, so you dismiss it as "meaningless", but just give it some thought.

Some beliefs are flat out wrong. Some beliefs are superstitions. Not everything we think about is a belief.

Right, but memories are properly basic beliefs... To explain, you may correctly assert that you ate raisin bran for breakfast last morning because you remember doing so, and I may believe you, but you can't inferentially prove that to be the case. It's justified in that you "know" it to be true because you have a seemingly clear memory of doing so, but yet you can't in any way inferentially prove that you did so.

I don't have a belief in my existence, I simply exist. All that the definition of mind shows is that man created a concept called mind and decided what it meant.

I don't have any inferential proof that you exist in the same way that I exist. I hold a properly basic belief that you do. So you don't believe that minds exist; only brains?

It doesn't describe the physical means that the mind concept is dependent upon; the use of our nervous system and brains to come up with concepts. The problem is confusing the concept with the physical reality with the use of metaphoric language.

I really hope that you one day give up your misguided belief that everything is physical, but until then... Namaste! =)

 

[devildavid]

Look again. I never asserted this, and I would suggest looking into what properly basic beliefs are and what is so interesting about them. I realize that it goes against your belief that everything is physical and everything can be inferentially proven, so you dismiss it as "meaningless", but just give it some thought.


Right, but memories are properly basic beliefs... To explain, you may correctly assert that you ate raisin bran for breakfast last morning because you remember doing so, and I may believe you, but you can't inferentially prove that to be the case. It's justified in that you "know" it to be true because you have a seemingly clear memory of doing so, but yet you can't in any way inferentially prove that you did so.


I don't have any inferential proof that you exist in the same way that I exist. I hold a properly basic belief that you do. So you don't believe that minds exist; only brains?


I really hope that you one day give up your misguided belief that everything is physical, but until then... Namaste! =)

I don't have a belief that everything is physical. I have knowledge of it.

Physical people exist and the brain is a very vital part of that existence. Mind is not a thing and no one needs it to exist.