UN: Tax meat until too expensive to eat...

[joG]

Brouhaha? Not at all. No more so than the Kyoto Accords which were never ratified. And that IS the point. Nothing agreed to by attendees is relevant until it has been passed and ratified by Congress. The UN does not have the power to assign law in the US...therefor the worry expressed in the OP is much ado about nothing.

You will find tht it will be more acrimonious this time around. And mind you, I am not and was not an advocate of the agreement. Our international partners are advocating it as "legally binding". Now, we might be correct that it is not such by US law and they might be totally wrong. It will not help us though to make deals in the future, if we leave the impression of serious discussions and then seem to bail out. The effect on the politicians aside, the populations will be against us and they will influence policy as we are already experiencing from earlier unprofessional actions. That is, what you get from dilettante Presidents.

 

[VanceMack]

You will find tht it will be more acrimonious this time around. And mind you, I am not and was not an advocate of the agreement. Our international partners are advocating it as "legally binding". Now, we might be correct that it is not such by US law and they might be totally wrong. It will not help us though to make deals in the future, if we leave the impression of serious discussions and then seem to bail out. The effect on the politicians aside, the populations will be against us and they will influence policy as we are already experiencing from earlier unprofessional actions. That is, what you get from dilettante Presidents.

I think the most important thing that can come out of all of this is a better understanding by the citizens of this country on how things actually work by Constitutional law and a greater resolve to insist the government follow the law. When people see government participation in UN discussions, we need to understand and DEMAND...no agreement is legit til it passes process. The President is not a king and does not have the right to implement additional law or change to existing law. When discussing treaties...Congress must ratify them or they are worthless. When discussing EO actions, the ONLY executive power the president has is in HOW existing law is implemented. You dont need to be a Constitutional scholar to understand these concepts. These are all basic civic lessons taught in jr high school back in the 60s and 70s.

 

[joG]

I think the most important thing that can come out of all of this is a better understanding by the citizens of this country on how things actually work by Constitutional law and a greater resolve to insist the government follow the law. When people see government participation in UN discussions, we need to understand and DEMAND...no agreement is legit til it passes process. The President is not a king and does not have the right to implement additional law or change to existing law. When discussing treaties...Congress must ratify them or they are worthless. When discussing EO actions, the ONLY executive power the president has is in HOW existing law is implemented. You dont need to be a Constitutional scholar to understand these concepts. These are all basic civic lessons taught in jr high school back in the 60s and 70s.

The population sees that the way the government takes is not to do it by due process but by nomination of Supreme Court Justices that redefine the due process. That has only marginally to do with the UN or other international actors.

 

[MickeyW]

The UN itself cannot "tax", your argument is invalid.

I'm fully aware of that...but they can give ****ty recommendations! My mantra is still.......Get Us Out of the UN!

 

[NGNM85]

I'm fully aware of that...but they can give ****ty recommendations! My mantra is still.......Get Us Out of the UN!

No offense, but that is an absolutely ridiculous idea. As long as there are nation-states, something like the UN will be necessary.

Regarding meat, you are also on the wrong side. The less meat we consume, overall, the better. Meat is incredibly resource-intensive, livestock consume more calories than they produce. Meat is also an incredibly dirty industry, producing more greenhouse gasses than planes, and cars combined, to say nothing of other forms of pollution, like the tons of manure that poison rivers, and lakes. Furthermore, the health benefits of a balanced vegetarian diet are equally incontrovertible. We can argue about how best to transition to a vegetarian, or primarily vegetarian society, but there are no sound arguments against doing so.

 

[Grand Mal]

No offense, but that is an absolutely ridiculous idea. As long as there are nation-states, something like the UN will be necessary.

Regarding meat, you are also on the wrong side. The less meat we consume, overall, the better. Meat is incredibly resource-intensive, livestock consume more calories than they produce. Meat is also an incredibly dirty industry, producing more greenhouse gasses than planes, and cars combined, to say nothing of other forms of pollution, like the tons of manure that poison rivers, and lakes. Furthermore, the health benefits of a balanced vegetarian diet are equally incontrovertible. We can argue about how best to transition to a vegetarian, or primarily vegetarian society, but there are no sound arguments against doing so.

Vegetarianism is an affectation of well-to-do urbanites. Out here, in the sticks, it'd be 'way too much trouble to replace all the vitamins and minerals we get from meat with vegetable-sourced nutrients. I don't have enough hours in the day to grow everything we'd need and we're a half-hour drive and half-hour ferry ride from a supermarket. There's many thousands like us here and millions more elsewhere in North America. Poorer people in the city could,nt afford to keep themselves healthy on a vegetarian diet and around the world it'd be just unworkable- impossible to grow all the food needed to live without meat. There are some small areas where people have historically been able to live as vegetarians, but few, otherwise it'd be more general, wouldn't it?
No reason at all for affluent city people to not be vegetarians. Many reasons for most of the rest of the world.

 

[blackjack50]

Vegetarianism is an affectation of well-to-do urbanites. Out here, in the sticks, it'd be 'way too much trouble to replace all the vitamins and minerals we get from meat with vegetable-sourced nutrients. I don't have enough hours in the day to grow everything we'd need and we're a half-hour drive and half-hour ferry ride from a supermarket. There's many thousands like us here and millions more elsewhere in North America. Poorer people in the city could,nt afford to keep themselves healthy on a vegetarian diet and around the world it'd be just unworkable- impossible to grow all the food needed to live without meat. There are some small areas where people have historically been able to live as vegetarians, but few, otherwise it'd be more general, wouldn't it?
No reason at all for affluent city people to not be vegetarians. Many reasons for most of the rest of the world.

Very true. Same thing with the organic crap.


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[CanadaJohn]

To those who want to reduce and/or eliminate meat consumption through taxation or other means, I always wonder what their plan is for "disposing" of or "repurposing" the livestock that is no longer consumed and remains.

 

[Casper]

Meat should be taxed at the wholesale level to raise the price and deter consumption, says a new report from the UN’s International Research Panel (IRP). This will (supposedly) save the environment and prevent global warming.

http://iceagenow.info/tax-meat-until-its-too-expensive-to-eat-new-un-report-suggests/


For 35 years I have been saying this: "Get Us Out of the UN" because they circumvent the sovereignty of the USA!

They are a bunch of socialist dickwads!

I guess that they do not know that people can raise and/or hunt meat themselves. City dwellers are funny creatures.

 

[Casper]

To those who want to reduce and/or eliminate meat consumption through taxation or other means, I always wonder what their plan is for "disposing" of or "repurposing" the livestock that is no longer consumed and remains.

Why they will be adopted out as pet's don't you know nothing, silly.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Why they will be adopted out as pet's don't you know nothing, silly.

Yes, and I'm sure the same proponents of eliminating meat in human diets will be delighted to pass municipal by-laws that encourage cows and pigs and chickens, etc. as household pets in backyards and on apartment/condo balconies.

Problem solved - thank you very much

 

[Casper]

Yes, and I'm sure the same proponents of eliminating meat in human diets will be delighted to pass municipal by-laws that encourage cows and pigs and chickens, etc. as household pets in backyards and on apartment/condo balconies.

Problem solved - thank you very much

It would be a hoot to see them try and implement that one.

 

[MickeyW]

Raise taxes much higher on meat? Good idea. I'm for that! If we decrease the processed meats that we all consume, maybe Americans won't be so doggone FAT...and the taxes can be used to pay off the national debt. Good idea. Seriously.

And when it becomes commercially viable, we should switch over to vat-grown meat - it'll be healthier and much better for the environment (and for all the animals that won't be so cruelly killed). Vat-grown meat...maybe we'll call it "Soylent Brown". Not "Soylent Green", of course - there's no need for that...yet.

See? Can'tcha feel the liberal vibes just a-washing all over you? And we're not done yet! We've got this new thing - it's called a "gay-ray"...and it'll make you feel all better and much happier, I promise....

I've never voted for a tax increase in my entire life. Why? Because the government doesn't do what they promise with the taxes. They waste them.
Meat is good for you and not any GMO, anything! I raise my own grass fed beef and screw the Govt.!

 

[blackjack50]

Why they will be adopted out as pet's don't you know nothing, silly.

Many believe keeping pets is inhumane. Go figure. Look at the humane society of the United States (not the aspca...HSUS is an animal rights extremist group like peta).


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[Casper]

Many believe keeping pets is inhumane. Go figure. Look at the humane society of the United States (not the aspca...HSUS is an animal rights extremist group like peta).


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Hey now, there is nothing wrong with PETA, I have belonged all my life, those of us that belong to People Eating Tasty Animals take these attacks seriously, just so ya know.

 

[SDET]

No offense, but that is an absolutely ridiculous idea. As long as there are nation-states, something like the UN will be necessary.

Regarding meat, you are also on the wrong side. The less meat we consume, overall, the better. Meat is incredibly resource-intensive, livestock consume more calories than they produce. Meat is also an incredibly dirty industry, producing more greenhouse gasses than planes, and cars combined, to say nothing of other forms of pollution, like the tons of manure that poison rivers, and lakes. Furthermore, the health benefits of a balanced vegetarian diet are equally incontrovertible. We can argue about how best to transition to a vegetarian, or primarily vegetarian society, but there are no sound arguments against doing so.

I can think of an argument against it: being a free society

 

[blackjack50]

Hey now, there is nothing wrong with PETA, I have belonged all my life, those of us that belong to People Eating Tasty Animals take these attacks seriously, just so ya know.

Lol. Just remember that the other peta is filled with morons. The HSUS is sneaky and not to be underestimate. They lead people to believe they have shelters. They suck. They get donations based on misunderstanding who they are, and then use it to fund anti pet/anti hunting /anti meat rich assholes.


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[Glen Contrarian]

I've never voted for a tax increase in my entire life. Why? Because the government doesn't do what they promise with the taxes. They waste them.
Meat is good for you and not any GMO, anything! I raise my own grass fed beef and screw the Govt.!

Hmph. You're doing what so many conservatives do: expect perfection where perfection is a flat impossibility. Why is perfection impossible? Because the government is made up of human beings. We can't be perfect, and so no human organization - public or private - can ever be perfect.

And it's like the old saying goes - the perfect is the enemy of the good. There's always going to be some fraud, waste, and abuse. We do what we can to minimize it, but screwing the government because it can't be as perfect as you personally expect is throwing out the baby with the bath water, cutting off your nose to spite your face. Besides, if our government - YOUR government - were half so bad as you seem to believe, we would never have become the greatest nation in human history.

In other words, Mickey, you could really use some historical perspective, and some understanding that when it comes to human beings, while it's good to hold us all to a higher standard, if you hold that standard too high, we all fail.

 

[blackjack50]

Hmph. You're doing what so many conservatives do: expect perfection where perfection is a flat impossibility. Why is perfection impossible? Because the government is made up of human beings. We can't be perfect, and so no human organization - public or private - can ever be perfect.

And it's like the old saying goes - the perfect is the enemy of the good. There's always going to be some fraud, waste, and abuse. We do what we can to minimize it, but screwing the government because it can't be as perfect as you personally expect is throwing out the baby with the bath water, cutting off your nose to spite your face. Besides, if our government - YOUR government - were half so bad as you seem to believe, we would never have become the greatest nation in human history.

In other words, Mickey, you could really use some historical perspective, and some understanding that when it comes to human beings, while it's good to hold us all to a higher standard, if you hold that standard too high, we all fail.

What now? That is a logical fallacy man. You acknowledge that with any organization there is corruption. You say we don't want any of an organization because of said corruption because we are expecting it to be perfect. What if we want less of said organization because less means less corruption? I'm personally of the opinion that there is no difference in big government and big business. So really I just want less of "large" organizations because they are more corrupt on a larger scale.

Besides...this is about meat. Why would I want more tax on my food? A food that is a staple, and the only alternative for is considerably more expensive. I mean...we have evolved to eat cooked meat. That is a human thing. I though democrats believed in evolution? Plenty of evidence for that one.


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[Glen Contrarian]

What now? That is a logical fallacy man. You acknowledge that with any organization there is corruption. You say we don't want any of an organization because of said corruption because we are expecting it to be perfect. What if we want less of said organization because less means less corruption? I'm personally of the opinion that there is no difference in big government and big business. So really I just want less of "large" organizations because they are more corrupt on a larger scale.

Besides...this is about meat. Why would I want more tax on my food? A food that is a staple, and the only alternative for is considerably more expensive. I mean...we have evolved to eat cooked meat. That is a human thing. I though democrats believed in evolution? Plenty of evidence for that one.


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Why would you want tax on your food? Well, would you like to know when this or that restaurant has been serving food tainted with listeria or e. coli? Would you want federal oversight making doggone sure that cattle with "mad cow" disease and other such diseases are not allowed into our food chain?

If you want such regulation (and don't pretend that the industry would EVER be "self-regulating"), then you should be willing to pay for the cost of said regulation.

On top of all that, food's already pretty doggone cheap in America compared to other first-world nations...which is one reason why we're FAT. Wanna cut down on our obesity rate - and all the diseases and conditions that are linked to our obesity, like our nationwide epidemic of diabetes? Then raise the food prices...and do it by raising taxes, and use the tax income to pay for our crappy health that's resulted from us eating too much doggone food.

 

[blackjack50]

Why would you want tax on your food? Well, would you like to know when this or that restaurant has been serving food tainted with listeria or e. coli? Would you want federal oversight making doggone sure that cattle with "mad cow" disease and other such diseases are not allowed into our food chain?

If you want such regulation (and don't pretend that the industry would EVER be "self-regulating"), then you should be willing to pay for the cost of said regulation.

On top of all that, food's already pretty doggone cheap in America compared to other first-world nations...which is one reason why we're FAT. Wanna cut down on our obesity rate - and all the diseases and conditions that are linked to our obesity, like our nationwide epidemic of diabetes? Then raise the food prices...and do it by raising taxes, and use the tax income to pay for our crappy health that's resulted from us eating too much doggone food.

1) I'm on with inspectors and food inspections and so on. We do a much better job than socialist paradises like the UK (mad cow disease especially). Again...limited regulation is fine with me. Limited doesn't mean everything goes. It means we aren't spending billions on a "bridge to nowhere" or in this case "vegan tofu superfoods" that already cost too damn much while at the same time removing choice.

2) Where the hell do you get off telling me what I can and can't eat? I don't give a crap about the obesity rates in America. Why would I? That isn't something our government should concern itself with. If I want to eat a 120 ounce bacon wrapped steak...then **** off and let me. I don't care how much tofu a vegan eats. It is my job to decide what goes in my doughnut masher.

Currently? Lean meats, salads, some light carbs, and no fast food save rare occasions. I've done my own weight loss stuff and it didn't include losing muscle for a vegan diet. I'm down 30 pounds. And my martial
Arts hasn't suffered. This predator can handle his own diet


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[Manc Skipper]

Let me inject some considered opinion, rather than hysteria, Warning! This article and its graphs contains facts, which may be indigestible to some. Careful now!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eat-is-destroying-the-planet-in-seven-charts/

 

[Glen Contrarian]

1) I'm on with inspectors and food inspections and so on. We do a much better job than socialist paradises like the UK (mad cow disease especially). Again...limited regulation is fine with me. Limited doesn't mean everything goes. It means we aren't spending billions on a "bridge to nowhere" or in this case "vegan tofu superfoods" that already cost too damn much while at the same time removing choice.

2) Where the hell do you get off telling me what I can and can't eat? I don't give a crap about the obesity rates in America. Why would I? That isn't something our government should concern itself with. If I want to eat a 120 ounce bacon wrapped steak...then **** off and let me. I don't care how much tofu a vegan eats. It is my job to decide what goes in my doughnut masher.

Currently? Lean meats, salads, some light carbs, and no fast food save rare occasions. I've done my own weight loss stuff and it didn't include losing muscle for a vegan diet. I'm down 30 pounds. And my martial
Arts hasn't suffered. This predator can handle his own diet


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Are you of the opinion that other people becoming obese isn't costing you money?

 

[blackjack50]

Are you of the opinion that other people becoming obese isn't costing you money?

I'm of the opinion it is none of my damn business what someone else eats. I tell you what, why don't you take your soapbox and head to the closest inner city grocery store/Walmart and tell them how they should stop buying the cheap foods and buy wholesome vegan/organic food that costs twice as much? Then you can tell them how you want to raise the taxes on the cheap stuff if they don't buy it.

I don't make a lot of money. I'm putting someone through school. I have 2 dogs. I can afford that because I bust my ass working a job I hate. I'm trying to build a nice happy life for myself and my girlfriend (and every day closer fiancé and wife). You want me to cut into my margins to pay extra for food I don't need? Especially given that we as humans have existed so long as meat eaters that we have evolved to eat cooked meat. Our teeth. Our digestive system (you know not having the multiple stomachs), not having regurgitate our food, etc ad Nauseam.

As usual: veganism is just another social justice warrior bull spit movement and this time it ignores evolution...which is ironic.


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[QuadpolarNutjob]

the UN is dominated by poor 3rd world nations, typically poor and 3rd world because of their ass-backwards economic policies and/or corrupt governments. i assume this 'meat tax' would be used to fund some kind of handout to starving illiterate baby factories in bum****istan.