UN report on Syria has been released

[Fallenangel]

I don't know if the mods would allow this but here it is, most of the news agencies haven't picket it up yet.
http://www.un.org/disarmament/

From the report:


EDIT: It would be interesting to see how the different players react to this i.e US, Russia, France, Syria...


Cheers,
Fallen.

 

[TheNextEra]

EDIT: It would be interesting to see how the different players react to this i.e US, Russia, France, Syria...

Well I don't think it's been a question of "IF" chemical weapons were used, only who used them. To that degree is where all the other countries have different versions.

 

[SBu]

I don't know if the mods would allow this but here it is, most of the news agencies haven't picket it up yet.
http://www.un.org/disarmament/

From the report:


EDIT: It would be interesting to see how the different players react to this i.e US, Russia, France, Syria...


Cheers,
Fallen.

Pretty much what was expected.

 

[ukangel]

Well I don't think it's been a question of "IF" chemical weapons were used, only who used them. To that degree is where all the other countries have different versions.

Agreed, and surely that was the point of the investigation to provide evidence of which side is responsible. No real point in going there otherwise.

 

[Rainman05]

All they are saying is that chemical weapons HAVE been used. Which we knew they HAVE been used. The question is: who used them?

Nobody can answer that question and there is no proof to suggest that the Assad regime was the one to use chemical weapons or the jihadists rebels did it.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Agreed, and surely that was the point of the investigation to provide evidence of which side is responsible. No real point in going there otherwise.

Actually no. The investigation was to determine if chemical weapons were used, not who used them.

 

[j-mac]

Agreed, and surely that was the point of the investigation to provide evidence of which side is responsible. No real point in going there otherwise.

No, we already knew that Sarin was used, and we knew that the UN would not investigate WHO used it....So, the charade continues.

 

[TheNextEra]

Agreed, and surely that was the point of the investigation to provide evidence of which side is responsible. No real point in going there otherwise.

Well this report could be just part of the findings. I haven't seen any other report that tries to connect the dots to "who" yet.

 

[lizzie]

Agreed, and surely that was the point of the investigation to provide evidence of which side is responsible. No real point in going there otherwise.

From the little that you posted, there is no indication of either. I don't really expect a UN report to be reliable for proof of either, and if it did, I would be suspicious, as their track record for non-bias is dubious at best.

 

[ecofarm]

Well I don't think it's been a question of "IF" chemical weapons were used, only who used them. To that degree is where all the other countries have different versions.

The only countries arguing that the rebels did it are Russia, the Iranian regime and such. No western country has contested the US conclusion that Assad forces conducted the attack.

 

[TheNextEra]

The only countries arguing that the rebels did it are Russia, the Iranian regime and such. No western country has contested the US conclusion that Assad forces conducted the attack.

That's not saying a whole lot. Most of the western countries also thought Sadaam had "stockiles" of WMDs. I'm not putting to much stock in the whole coorelation thing of anyone atm.

 

[ecofarm]

That's not saying a whole lot. Most of the western countries also thought Sadaam had "stockiles" of WMDs. I'm not putting to much stock in the whole coorelation thing of anyone atm.

Saddam faked a WMD program. Are you claiming that Assad faked the chem use?

 

[TheNextEra]

Saddam faked a WMD program. Are you claiming that Assad faked the chem use?

Not that he fakes it, but are you telling me that you believe 100% that he used them? Are you saying that our intelligence cannot be wrong?

At this time, I don't know for sure and I haven't been shown anything other than "trust us, it was him" to think otherwise.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

The only countries arguing that the rebels did it are Russia, the Iranian regime and such. No western country has contested the US conclusion that Assad forces conducted the attack.

This isn't saying anything at all. Of course US allies are going to line up on the side of the US, and Russia's allies are going to line up on its side.

 

[ecofarm]

This isn't saying anything at all. Of course US allies are going to line up on the side of the US, and Russia's allies are going to line up on its side.

Russia's allies are just Assad and the Iranian regime.

Now, let's compare... who has the more credible allies?

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Russia's allies are just Assad and the Iranian regime.

Now, let's compare... who has the more credible allies?

I don't think it's even worth discussing. Unless you have evidence that the Syrian government used chemical weapons?

 

[Mr. Invisible]

The site failed for me a number of times. For those who could not get to the UN site, I put a copy up on Scribd. United Nations Mission to Investigate Allegations of the Use of Chemical Weapons

 

[ecofarm]

Not that he fakes it, but are you telling me that you believe 100% that he used them?

Yes, I believe 100% that Assad used them. The US claims to have intel, audio and photo evidence that Assad's regime:

1. Prepared for the attack, including communications among high ranking officers.
2. Collected the chems from a known storage facility.
3. Prepared and loaded the rockets.
4. Fired the rockets.
5. Conducted after-actions assessments.

Are you saying that our intelligence cannot be wrong?

I'm saying that it is a known fact that Saddam faked a WMD program. Are you claiming that Assad faked the chem use? Otherwise, there is no meaningful link between the two events.

At this time, I don't know for sure and I haven't been shown anything other than "trust us, it was him" to think otherwise.

When you get on the Intel Committee, perhaps they'll give you the evidence. For now, that's being held back for security reasons.

 

[ecofarm]

I don't think it's even worth discussing. Unless you have evidence that the Syrian government used chemical weapons?

Why is it not worth discussing? Do you make it a habit to believe the Iranian regime?

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Yes, I believe 100% that Assad used them. The US claims to have intel, audio and photo evidence that Assad's regime:

1. Prepared for the attack, including communications among high ranking officers.
2. Collected the chems from a known storage facility.
3. Prepared and loaded the rockets.
4. Fired the rockets.
5. Conducted after-actions assessments.




I'm saying that it is a known fact that Saddam faked a WMD program. Are you claiming that Assad faked the chem use? Otherwise, there is no link between the two events.



When you get on the Intel Committee, perhaps they'll give you the evidence. For now, that's being held back for security reasons.

I must note that a number of congressmen and women have seen the evidence from the Obama administration and come out even more skeptical.

Well, the House has seen the intel and some of them are quite skeptical. For example Congressman Justin Amash. (https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/status/374319778053509120) (https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/status/376081868678246400) (https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/status/376405762903646208) and Congressman Tom Harkin (Harkin on Classified Syria Briefing: 'Frankly Raised More Questions Than It Answered' | The Weekly Standard).

As well as New Hampshire Democratic Rep. Carol Shea-Porter, who "left Thursday’s classified hearing and said she was opposed to the effort 'now so more than ever." (Chemical weapons argument isn)


Also, it has been noted that

In fact, even gaining access to just the classified summary involves a series of unreasonably high hurdles.

We have to descend into the bowels of the Capitol Visitors Center, to a room four levels underground. Per the instructions of the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, note-taking is not allowed.

Once we leave, we are not permitted to discuss the classified summary with the public, the media, our constituents or even other members. Nor are we allowed to do anything to verify the validity of the information that has been provided.

And this is just the classified summary. It is my understanding that the House Intelligence Committee made a formal request for the underlying intelligence reports several days ago. I haven’t heard an answer yet. And frankly, I don’t expect one.​

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/07/opinion/on-syria-vote-trust-but-verify.html?hp&_r=0

 

[TheNextEra]

Yes, I believe 100% that Assad used them. The US claims to have intel, audio and photo evidence that Assad's regime:

1. Prepared for the attack, including communications among high ranking officers.
2. Collected the chems from a known storage facility.
3. Prepared and loaded the rockets.
4. Fired the rockets.
5. Conducted after-actions assessments.




I'm saying that it is a known fact that Saddam faked a WMD program. Are you claiming that Assad faked the chem use? Otherwise, there is no meaningful link between the two events.



When you get on the Intel Committee, perhaps they'll give you the evidence. For now, that's being held back for security reasons.

So what we have here is exactly what I said "Trust us, it was him". So if YOU want to trust that, that is the same intelligence that said Saddam has stockpiles of WMDs. So yes, I have some doubts.

I don't trust our intelligence 100%.

 

[ecofarm]

I must note that a number of congressmen and women have seen the evidence from the Obama administration and come out even more skeptical.

Three congresspeople show-boating? We could get that regarding evidence that the sky is blue.

We'll see when vote time arrives.

 

[ecofarm]

So what we have here is exactly what I said "Trust us, it was him". So if YOU want to trust that, that is the same intelligence that said Saddam has stockpiles of WMDs. So yes, I have some doubts.

I don't trust our intelligence 100%.

I'll repeat:

Saddam faked a WMD program.

Do you believe that Assad faked the chem use?

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Why is it not worth discussing? Do you make it a habit to believe the Iranian regime?

Credibility is nonexistent in international politics.

So do you have this evidence everyone wants to see but that the US refuses to show?

 

[ecofarm]

Credibility is nonexistent in international politics.

Nihilism.

So do you have this evidence everyone wants to see but that the US refuses to show?

Yes, Obama gave it to me personally. :roll: