UN Partition Vote

[Mira]

I'm sorry that I had to copy-paste this from a post that I had on the "other" forum, but I really would like to share opinions about this.

NO, this is NOT the only book that I've read about the issue as I have been accused "there" but it is the latest one that I've read and find it objective mainly because it is the result of s a joint research effort of an Arab and an Israeli.
__________________________________________
I would like to recommend a book to you called "The Fifty Years War" by Ahron Bregman and Jihan El-Tahri. One section in particular about the vote for partition grabbed my attention.

I'm not going to copy the whole page,

In short it says that the Jewish delegation was about to lose the vote but they took advantage of the postponing of the session for 2 days beacause of American thanksgiving holiday.

"The Jewish delegation used the time to convince undecided nations. Some of their last-minute methods were unorthodox. Harvey Firestone, the wealthy owner of a tyre manufacturing company, with huge plantations in Liberia, was threatened by Robert Nathan, an influential American, that Firestone products would be boycotted in the US unless he pressurized Liberia to vote for partition. President Carlos Rojass of the Philippines-who was awaiting confirmation of a large US Congressional credit- was contacted by 26 senators and two Supreme Court judges urging him to reverse the vote of his UN delegation. Such tactics didn't always work. Efforts to reverse the negative vote of Ethiopia only succeeded in securing its abstention. But it took no more than a promise of a five-million-dollar loan to alter Haiti's vote.

On 29 November, the changes were apparent ...... " etc.. etc...

 

[Marc39]

I'm sorry that I had to copy-paste this from a post that I had on the "other" forum, but I really would like to share opinions about this.

NO, this is NOT the only book that I've read about the issue as I have been accused "there" but it is the latest one that I've read and find it objective mainly because it is the result of s a joint research effort of an Arab and an Israeli.
__________________________________________
I would like to recommend a book to you called "The Fifty Years War" by Ahron Bregman and Jihan El-Tahri. One section in particular about the vote for partition grabbed my attention.

I'm not going to copy the whole page,

In short it says that the Jewish delegation was about to lose the vote but they took advantage of the postponing of the session for 2 days beacause of American thanksgiving holiday.

"The Jewish delegation used the time to convince undecided nations. Some of their last-minute methods were unorthodox. Harvey Firestone, the wealthy owner of a tyre manufacturing company, with huge plantations in Liberia, was threatened by Robert Nathan, an influential American, that Firestone products would be boycotted in the US unless he pressurized Liberia to vote for partition. President Carlos Rojass of the Philippines-who was awaiting confirmation of a large US Congressional credit- was contacted by 26 senators and two Supreme Court judges urging him to reverse the vote of his UN delegation. Such tactics didn't always work. Efforts to reverse the negative vote of Ethiopia only succeeded in securing its abstention. But it took no more than a promise of a five-million-dollar loan to alter Haiti's vote.

On 29 November, the changes were apparent ...... " etc.. etc...

Your problem, as with many Arabs, is that of wallowing in the past. Stop obsessing on the Nakba and get on with your lives. Maybe then you'd have a chance of transitioning out of the Middle Ages.

 

[Mira]

Your problem, as with many Arabs, is that of wallowing in the past. Stop obsessing on the Nakba and get on with your lives. Maybe then you'd have a chance of transitioning out of the Middle Ages.

Look who's talking.
One post after the other denying the existance of a Palestinian poeple.
One post after the other denying the posession of land by Palestinians.
One post after the other accusing the Arabs for having resisted the partition.
One post after the other to prove that the land belongs exclussively to the Jewish people.
One post after the other trying to prove that the Arabs of the Levant came from Saudi Arabia.

Have you yet posted ONE paragraph suggesting a peaceful solution NOW ?

NOT ONE

 

[Marc39]

Look who's talking.
One post after the other denying the existance of a Palestinian poeple.
One post after the other denying the posession of land by Palestinians.
One post after the other accusing the Arabs for having resisted the partition.
One post after the other to prove that the land belongs exclussively to the Jewish people.
One post after the other trying to prove that the Arabs of the Levant came from Saudi Arabia.

Have you yet posted ONE paragraph suggesting a peaceful solution NOW ?

NOT ONE

Easy peaceful solution: The so-called Palestinians put down their guns, first. If the Israelis put down their guns first, they will be annihilated by the so-called Palestinians. Easy enough for you?

 

[Mira]

Easy peaceful solution: The so-called Palestinians put down their guns, first. If the Israelis put down their guns first, they will be annihilated by the so-called Palestinians. Easy enough for you?

YOU are the reason why we have reached this point of no return.
If the U.S. hadn't helped you for all these years you would have been back to where you came from.

I totally agree that the Palestinians should put down their arms, but why did you treat them like crap since the beginning and deprive them from their basic huan rights?

The intifada started with stone throwing and you went ahead and responded with live bullets.

 

[Apocalypse]

YOU are the reason why we have reached this point of no return.

Yes, Marc is the reason for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. :doh

 

[Marc39]

YOU are the reason why we have reached this point of no return.
If the U.S. hadn't helped you for all these years you would have been back to where you came from.

I totally agree that the Palestinians should put down their arms, but why did you treat them like crap since the beginning and deprive them from their basic huan rights?

The intifada started with stone throwing and you went ahead and responded with live bullets.

And, were it not for Jews who immigrated to Palestine, Palestine would still be a desert, like most of the Middle East.

 

[Mira]

And, were it not for Jews who immigrated to Palestine, Palestine would still be a desert, like most of the Middle East.

Don't worry about us, we were happy with our desert.

 

[Mira]

Yes, Marc is the reason for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. :doh

Not entirely wrong. By "you" I meant the Israelis of course, but it's because of extremists like marc and Hamas that there will never be peace.

 

[Apocalypse]

Don't worry about us, we were happy with our desert.

But it's not just deserts that you want.

 

[Apocalypse]

Not entirely wrong. By "you" I meant the Israelis of course, but it's because of extremists like marc and Hamas that there will never be peace.

You ain't an angel as well.
"Israel the worst criminal evah" was your line, wasn't it?

 

[Mira]

You ain't an angel as well.
"Israel the worst criminal evah" was your line, wasn't it?

Absolutely and I repeat, Israel is the worst criminal ever.
I see Israel's crimes as well as the crimes of the suicide bombers or those who who fire rockets on civilian homes and I condemn both.


That doesn't make me bad, just aware that's all.

 

[Mira]

But it's not just deserts that you want.

I think that you misread marc's post. What he's trying to say is that the Arabs should be grateful to the Jews to have occupied their land.

I think the Jews brought some wonderful things to the Arab world but the occupation was unnecessary and so was the partition.

Do I think that the Jews are a skillfull people, I definitely do.

The problem however is that marc has repeatedly admitted of being a racist against Arabs, any Arab. A racist shouldn't be surprised when others are racist toward him. At least he should not complain.

Well, inspite of all the corruption of their leaders and their dictatorships, the Arab people are just as skillful as the Jews when they are given the chance.

Now the partition is done and over with and there's no going back. I still persist on my belief that Jews and Arabs can progress together and that can only be done by the moderates. As I said in a previous post, if the moderates from both sides come together and overpower the extremists, the Levant can make great progress.

Now watch marc jump in again to bash the Arabs, it's going to happen any time.

 

[Marc39]

Absolutely and I repeat, Israel is the worst criminal ever.
I see Israel's crimes as well as the crimes of the suicide bombers or those who who fire rockets on civilian homes and I condemn both.


That doesn't make me bad, just aware that's all.

I assume "Israel's" 1.5 Arabs are also "the worst criminal ever". By the way, although Arabs often don't agree, they certainly agree on embracing the president of Sudan, an indicted war criminal for perpetrating the genocide in Darfur. It's nice to know that Arabs can finally come together for such a worthy cause...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/31/world/africa/31arab.html

 

[Mira]

LOL, what did I tell you Apocalypse :doh

 

[Apocalypse]

Absolutely and I repeat, Israel is the worst criminal ever.

I don't think you are aware of what you're saying here. I think a lot of Arab countries including Lebanon do unbelievable crimes in their own societies and out of them, but I'd never even suggest any of them is worse than say Nazi Germany or Czar-age Russia.

I'm afraid you're not aware of your own extremism, Mira.

 

[Mira]

I don't think you are aware of what you're saying here. I think a lot of Arab countries including Lebanon do unbelievable crimes in their own societies and out of them, but I'd never even suggest any of them is worse than say Nazi Germany or Czar-age Russia.

I'm afraid you're not aware of your own extremism, Mira.

Nazi Germany or Russia hasn't done anything to me. We're talking about the Middle East here.

Germany committed outrageous crimes against your people and Turkey against mine. Germany apologised, Turkey never even admitted the genocide.

I fled Lebanon because I could't stand living with people who once killed each other, but not one country has ever caused me as much pain DIRECTLY as Israel has. So to me, Israel remains the worst criminal of all.

And still, I am willing to see the Palestinians extend a hand to Israel and what Israel has done does not prevent me from having wonderful Israeli friends who are themselves aware of the horrific crimes that their country has committed.

I am not an extremist Apocalypse, believe me. As a Lebanese, I'm just VERY angry with Israel.

edit: as strange as it might sound, the only person with whom I could speak to during the war on Gaza was my Israeli friend Mikaela. She came over, we opened a bottle of red wine and expressed our frustration on what was going on. I believe in Israelis like Mikaela.

 

[Apocalypse]

Nazi Germany or Russia hasn't done anything to me. We're talking about the Middle East here.

Germany committed outrageous crimes against your people and Turkey against mine. Germany apologised, Turkey never even admitted the genocide.

I fled Lebanon because I could't stand living with people who once killed each other, but not one country has ever caused me as much pain DIRECTLY as Israel has. So to me, Israel remains the worst criminal of all.

And still, I am willing to see the Palestinians extend a hand to Israel and what Israel has done does not prevent me from having wonderful Israeli friends who are themselves aware of the horrific crimes that their country has committed.

I am not an extremist Apocalypse, believe me. As a Lebanese, I'm just VERY angry with Israel.

There are a lot of Israelis who lost relatives and friends to Lebanese terrorism, but I doubt that even one of them finds Lebanon as the worst criminal state in human history.

And I could bet that you wouldn't befriend those Israelis if they loved their nation.

 

[Mira]

There are a lot of Israelis who lost relatives and friends to Lebanese terrorism, but I doubt that even one of them finds Lebanon as the worst criminal state in human history.

And I could bet that you wouldn't befriend those Israelis if they loved their nation.

Lebanon never attacked Israel with fighter jets and illegal weapons. Lebanon never destroyed Israel's civil infrustructure or trashed the North of Israel with fragmantation bombs.Lebanon never humiliated Israelis on checkpoints.

My Israeli friends love their nation, that is exactly why they admit the crimes of Israel.

The Germans love their country also, that is why they apologised to the Jews and moved forward. It is much more difficult to admit one's own crimes than to point out the crimes of the others.

I DO admit my country's crimes, I DO want Hizbollah disarmed, and many in Lebanon do as well. On other side, there is a real peace effort by people like my friends or the Israeli journalist Amira Hass, or the refuseniks, Bt'selem and the "women in black" .

 

[Apocalypse]

Lebanon never attacked Israel with fighter jets and illegal weapons. Lebanon never destroyed Israel's civil infrustructure or trashed the North of Israel with fragmantation bombs.Lebanon never humiliated Israelis on checkpoints.

My Israeli friends love their nation, that is exactly why they admit the crimes of Israel.

The Germans love their country also, that is why they apologised to the Jews and moved forward. It is much more difficult to admit one's own crimes than to point out the crimes of the others.

I DO admit my country's crimes, I DO want Hizbollah disarmed, and many in Lebanon do as well. On other side, there is a real peace effort by people like my friends or the Israeli journalist Amira Hass, or the refuseniks, Bt'selem and the "women in black" .

Self defense was never a crime.
The only crime Israel did is that it didn't make it clear enough.

 

[Mira]

Self defense was never a crime.
The only crime Israel did is that it didn't make it clear enough.

And defending a land from occupation was never a crime, but killing civilians is.

 

[Apocalypse]

And defending a land from occupation was never a crime, but killing civilians is.

The land defenders took the saying "the best defense is offense" too seriously then, it seems, as they're the ones who attacked and forced Israel to defend itself from being occupied.

 

[Mira]

The land defenders took the saying "the best defense is offense" too seriously then, it seems, as they're the ones who attacked and forced Israel to defend itself from being occupied.

Israel occupied in the first place.
Now the past is the past.

What do we do next ?

 

[Apocalypse]

Israel occupied in the first place.
Now the past is the past.

What do we do next ?

We stop speaking about false crimes admitting and try to keep the borders silent on both sides

 

[Mira]

We stop speaking about false crimes admitting and try to keep the borders silent on both sides

That would be a very good start, and then ?