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UN experts: Israel flotilla raid broke int'l law

Apocalypse said:
Nevertheless this paragraph:



Only refers to so-called evidence on a "collective punishment".
You've claimed they back their claims from par. 53 in this paragraph. They do not.
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It refers to the effect of the blockade and cites evidence in that connection.
 
What people need to consider here to determine if the raid was illegal is not what happened during the attack.

If you read the report http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf you can clearly see that the UN have declared the blockade illegal. Which we already knew anyway. Regardless of accusations of UNHRC bias, the laws are not something that can be manipulated (even if the main man on the panel wasn't already a respectable judge, experienced in international law).

This is laid out in (if I remember corectly) section 45 or something. I suggest reading it because the testimony of activists and everything else related becomes irrelevant when we consider that the blockade is by definition illegal. This means that there was no way that the IDF's attack could have been legal.

Therefore "Re: UN experts: Israel flotilla raid broke int'l law" is entirely accurate.
 
Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/22/gaza-flotilla-un-condemns-israeli-brutali

The panel's report, published today, described Israel's military response to the flotilla as "disproportionate" and said it "betrayed an unacceptable level of brutality".
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The actual report is far more informative than the article. (surprise surprise)

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf

Just minutes after soldiers from the zodiac boats had made initial unsuccessful attempts to board, the first helicopter approached the ship at approximately 0430 hours, hovering above the top deck. At this point between 10 and 20 passengers were located in the central area of the top deck, although this number increased as other passengers learned of events on the top deck. The Israeli forces used smoke and stun grenades in an attempt to clear an area for the landing of soldiers. The first rope that was let down from the helicopter was taken by passengers and tied it to a part of the top deck and thereby rendered ineffective for the purpose of soldiers’ descent. A second rope was then let down from the The Mission does not find it plausible that soldiers were holding their weapons and firing as they descended on the rope. However, it has concluded that live ammunition was used from the helicopter onto the top deck prior to the descent of the soldiers.
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A number of the passengers on the top deck fought with the soldiers using their fists, sticks, metal rods and knives. At least one of the soldiers was stabbed with a knife or other sharp object. Witnesses informed the Mission that their objective was to subdue and disarm the soldiers so that they could not harm anyone. The Mission is satisfied on the evidence that at least two passengers on the bridge deck also used handheld catapults to propel small projectiles at the helicopters. The Mission has found no evidence to suggest that any of the passengers used firearms or that any firearms were taken on board the ship. Despite requests, the Mission has not received any medical records or other substantiated information from the Israeli authorities regarding any firearm injuries sustained by soldiers participating in the raid. Doctors examined the three soldiers taken below decks and no firearm injuries were noted. Further, the Mission finds that the Israeli accounts so inconsistent and contradictory with regard to evidence of alleged firearms injuries to Israeli soldiers that it has to reject it.
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123. During the shootings on the bridge deck and as it became apparent that a large number of passengers had become injured, Bulent Yildirim, the President of IHH and one of principal organisers of the flotilla, removed his white shirt which was then used as a white flag to indicate a surrender. This does not appear to have had any effect and live firing continued on the ship.
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Well. That didn't go so well. Cue people shouting that Israel is evil and hates babies and other people defending brutality because Israel can do no wrong and is just acting in self defense.

edit: And then people who think that condemning firing from a helicopter at people before you even board their boat is somehow supporting the terrorists will chime in and derail the entire thread.

Actions that will be taken by rest of the world in response to incident:
Possibly a sternly worded nonbinding resolution condemning these actions and asking Israel to please be more careful in the future.

edit2: What the hell is a "handheld catapult?"
 
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Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

What a complete load of anti-Semitic garbage.

Let's get Fidel Castro to issue a report on the benefits of capitalism, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's report on the WWII Holocaust next. Those would rank just as high on the credibility meter as this report does.
 
i wonder when the nationalist jews accept that they are not untouchable people in the world, if you break a rule/law, you have to accept the consequences of that action as everybody else.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Not the they shouldn't use disproportionate bull **** argument again. You are supposed to use disproportionate force. If they kill one of you you bomb the **** out of them to show that you are not to be ****ed with and to lower enemy moral and troop numbers.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

This is yesterday's news, not breaking news, and there's already a thread about it in the ME section.

Nevertheless; This is not the UN investigation, this is the UNHRC investigation. The UN investigation is still going on.

The UNHRC is an anti-Israeli body that was pretty much formed for anti-Israeli decisions and operates under the mask of a "human rights" organization.
It has dealt with Israel-surrounding issues more than it did with every other country upon earth, combined.
This bias was also pointed out by Kofi Anan, Ban ki-Moon, the EU, the USA, Canada and Israel, and no one in the sane world even gives a damn about what those folks have to say.
This is also the same organization behind the infamous Goldstone report.

As to the report itself, it is even more ridiculously biased than the body itself, and since Israel did not cooperate with the organization's investigation, it did not have any access to any evidence on the incident and was basing its claims entirely on witnesses' 'testimonies', the words of the same people that can be seen lynching soldiers with knives and iron bars in the video.
Fortunately it is a toothless organization so it can be easily ignored.
 
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Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

The Human Rights Council is a joke in the first degree controlled by Pro-Islam Anti-Israeli Anti-West and Anti-Democracy whack jobs, just like most of the Damn UN Monkey's butts.

The International Court of Justice in the Hague is no better most of the time.

All the international BS needs to be swept aside or ignored in a big way.

We saw the Video and we know why Israel is stopping ships.

Answer me this. If San Diego, El Paso, and all other border towns were receiving hundreds of rocket attacks a year from Mexico, then would it be Okay for our Navy and Marines to stop and board all ships we suspect of carrying arms to the enemy.

Do you think it would then okay for us to send Apache Chopper over the Border to attack strong holds held by the enemy and used as launch sites.

Hell no if your families were being blon up the namby pamby Liberal peace nick BS would vanish in a heart beat.

The Chairman of Palestine Mahmoud Abbas and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran have both said they want Israel wiped out, so this is a matter of survival for the tiny nation of Israel and one of our best friends in the world until The Appeaser in Chief to Islam D.A. Obama got involved.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

jamesrage said:
Not the they shouldn't use disproportionate bull **** argument again. You are supposed to use disproportionate force. If they kill one of you you bomb the **** out of them to show that you are not to be ****ed with and to lower enemy moral and troop numbers.
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Except the part where nobody on this flotilla was killing people.

Grim17 said:
What a complete load of anti-Semitic garbage.

Let's get Fidel Castro to issue a report on the benefits of capitalism, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's report on the WWII Holocaust next. Those would rank just as high on the credibility meter as this report does.
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This is the bull**** I was talking about. Condemning actions taken by Israelis is not "anti-Semitic."

I condemn the actions of that Asian kid who shot up Virginia Tech. Am I racist now?
 
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Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

So were the soldiers supposed to wait till after the one of their own was killed before they acted. Does that mean that soldiers in Astan have to wait till the terrorists hit you with a VBIED before we can use deadly force to stop it.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Grim17 said:
What a complete load of anti-Semitic garbage.

Let's get Fidel Castro to issue a report on the benefits of capitalism, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's report on the WWII Holocaust next. Those would rank just as high on the credibility meter as this report does.
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Did you really expect anything less from such a Jew hating organization?

Same group of people who did nothing about women in Africa being raped. Same group of people who ignored the DarFur genocide. Same people who ran the biggest money fraud scandal in the history of mankind. Nothing they do surprises me anymore.

The only thing that does are the people that actually support them.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Apocalypse said:
This is yesterday's news, not breaking news, and there's already a thread about it in the ME section.

Nevertheless; This is not the UN investigation, this is the UNHRC investigation. The UN investigation is still going on.

The UNHRC is an anti-Israeli body that was pretty much formed for anti-Israeli decisions and operates under the mask of a "human rights" organization.
It has dealt with Israel-surrounding issues more than it did with every other country upon earth, combined.
This bias was also pointed out by Kofi Anan, Ban ki-Moon, the EU, the USA, Canada and Israel, and no one in the sane world even gives a damn about what those folks have to say.
This is also the same organization behind the infamous Goldstone report.

As to the report itself, it is even more ridiculously biased than the body itself, and since Israel did not cooperate with the organization's investigation, it did not have any access to any evidence on the incident and was basing its claims entirely on witnesses' 'testimonies', the words of the same people that can be seen lynching soldiers with knives and iron bars in the video.
Fortunately it is a toothless organization so it can be easily ignored.
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You of all people I'm shocked if you actually believe Israel will get a fair shake from the UN.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Deuce said:
Except the part where nobody on this flotilla was killing people.
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For God's sake Deuce. Look at the video. See those things in their hands? Those were weapons. They were beating the soliders to death.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Deuce said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/22/gaza-flotilla-un-condemns-israeli-brutali



The actual report is far more informative than the article. (surprise surprise)

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf







Well. That didn't go so well. Cue people shouting that Israel is evil and hates babies and other people defending brutality because Israel can do no wrong and is just acting in self defense.

edit: And then people who think that condemning firing from a helicopter at people before you even board their boat is somehow supporting the terrorists will chime in and derail the entire thread.

Actions that will be taken by rest of the world in response to incident:
Possibly a sternly worded nonbinding resolution condemning these actions and asking Israel to please be more careful in the future.

edit2: What the hell is a "handheld catapult?"
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Seriously, Mister Deuce - Anything dealing with the UN is fraught with hypocrisy. The fact is, they are an essentially useless organization that is used for justification by anyone who can get the vote.

I agree the dream made sense, but the application through the years has been less than abysmal.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

texmaster said:
For God's sake Deuce. Look at the video. See those things in their hands? Those were weapons. They were beating the soliders to death.
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Did you read the sentence where live ammunition was apparently fired from the helicopter before any soldiers were on the deck?
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Deuce said:
Did you read the sentence where live ammunition was apparently fired from the helicopter before any soldiers were on the deck?
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They call those "warning shots"... Look into it sometime.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Grim17 said:
They call those "warning shots"... Look into it sometime.
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You don't fire warning shots at people... Look into reading the report before commenting on it.

During the operation to secure control of the top deck, the Israeli forces landed
soldiers from three helicopters over a fifteen-minute period. The Israeli forces used
paintballs, plastic bullets and live ammunition, fired by soldiers from the helicopter above
and soldiers who had landed on the top deck. The use of live ammunition during this period
resulted in fatal injuries to four passengers, and injuries to at least nineteen others,
fourteen with gunshot wounds.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Let me be blunt... Those terrorist loving, Jew hating, liberal activists, were lucky that they didn't all become fish food. What they did was an act of war, so they should feel lucky that only 10 of them died. I suspect the next time they try this (which I hear is coming soon), they might not get off so lucky.

Israel was 110% justified in boarding that ship and then defending themselves when attacked.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Grim17 said:
Let me be blunt... Those terrorist loving, Jew hating, liberal activists, were lucky that they didn't all become fish food. What they did was an act of war, so they should feel lucky that only 10 of them died. I suspect the next time they try this (which I hear is coming soon), they might not get off so lucky.

Israel was 110% justified in boarding that ship and then defending themselves when attacked.
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Delivering humanitarian aid to a place in a humanitarian crisis is an act of war? I guess it is to Israel. Just like a white flag doesn't mean surrender, but instead 'shoot me'.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Degreez said:
Delivering humanitarian aid to a place in a humanitarian crisis is an act of war? I guess it is to Israel. Just like a white flag doesn't mean surrender, but instead 'shoot me'.
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They were offered by both Israel and Egypt, a safe port to dock their ships, where their supplies would be off-loaded and delivered to the Palestinians. Instead of accepting that offer, they knowingly broke through an internationally recognized military blockade, then refused for several hours to stop when ordered to by the Israeli navy.

So the answer is ABSOLUTELY, it was indeed an act of war.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Grim17 said:
What a complete load of anti-Semitic garbage.
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Why the hell is it when ANYONE does ANYTHING that isnt immediately siding with Israel, all of a sudden it's anti-Semitic? I HATE it when Israel does it because it's the equivalent of pulling the race card.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Grim17 said:
They were offered by both Israel and Egypt, a safe port to dock their ships, where their supplies would be off-loaded and delivered to the Palestinians. Instead of accepting that offer, they knowingly broke through an internationally recognized military blockade, then refused for several hours to stop when ordered to by the Israeli navy.

So the answer is ABSOLUTELY, it was indeed an act of war.
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First off the blockade was illegal.

Second, a vessel engaged in a humanitarian mission is supposed to be allowed safe passage to a place in a humanitarian crisis.

Third, Israel has no authority to subjugate the high seas to its sovereignty.

Last, since this was an "act of war" according to you, why has there been no formal declaration of such? Oh, that's right. Because it was not an act of war.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

Honestly, I find no credibility with the UN as long as nations that violate human rights are allowed to serve in positions of power. It's blatantly anti-Israeli and does not seek justice.
 
Re: Gaza flotilla attack: UN report condemns Israeli 'brutality'

digsbe said:
Honestly, I find no credibility with the UN as long as nations that violate human rights are allowed to serve in positions of power. It's blatantly anti-Israeli and does not seek justice.
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If the requirement for membership of the UN was that a nation not ever have violated human rights, there would be no UN.
 
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