• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

UN Delegates Walk Out as Russia's Lavrov Speaks

Good
 
eohrnberger said:
Do please elaborate what usefulness the UN has demonstrated in it's existence, especially in recent years, where all you hear from them is their Global Climate Change fear mongering, which coincidentally hands them control of vast global money movement and to whom that money should be taken, and to whom it should go. (Follow the money!)

So far, I think it fair to say that the UN little more than a useless and ineffectual bureaucratic largess which has only pushed the leftist and globalist agenda, with no actual actions of consequence, of impact, having made any people's lives any better, except perhaps their minor contribution to the Korean war in the 50's, but nothing of significant since then.

Doesn't even seem that the UN can even manage to control their own all that much.
Click to expand...

Like I said, you clearly have no idea what the function of the UN is

It has many functions:

1. It's a talking shop - an international forum where diplomacy gets done
(it's greatest moment in this was during to Cuban missile crisis)

2. It grants legal authority in international law - such as in the Korean War, but also Gulf War I. Its authority was notably lacking in Gulf War II
This is important if countries try to sue you in international courts, as Russia and its oligarchs will find out after hostilities end
"The International Court of Justice is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations. Its seat is at the Peace Palace in the Hague (Netherlands). It is the only one of the six principal organs of the United Nations not located in New York (United States of America). The Court’s role is to settle, in accordance with international law, legal disputes submitted to it by States and to give advisory opinions on legal questions referred to it by authorized United Nations organs and specialized agencies. The International Court of Justice functions in accordance with its Statute."

3. Following on from that, the legal authority under international law for war crimes tribunals comes from the UN.

4. Treaties regarding the Law of Armed Combat - like the banning of chemical/biological weapons, landmines, cluster bombs are done under the auspices of the UN.

5. It provides peace keeping troops, like those present in Cyprus since the 70's
Note: these are peace KEEPING troops, not peace MAKING troops
A particular success for them was the containment of genocide in Bosnia/Kosovo in the 1990's.

6. It distributes large amounts of $$$ to where it's urgently needed, like setting up refugee camps.

7. The World Health Organization (WHO), is an agency of the UN
Probably it's greatest success was the eradication of smallpox, but it does a tremendous amount of work trying to control other diseases with vaccines and the creation of good sanitation accross the globe.

8. UN Save The Children foundation - I couldn't be bothered typing up all the good things it does but you can read about it here:
www.savethechildren.org

United Nations General Assembly

World leaders from 193 countries will come together at the United Nations General Assembly and commit to 17 Global Goals with save the children in mind.
www.savethechildren.org www.savethechildren.org

9. UNESCO (The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, seeks to build peace through international cooperation).

10. Climate - the Paris Climate Accords, is an international treaty on climate change, adopted in 2015. It was negotiated by 196 countries at the 2015 UN Climate Change Conference(UNCCC)
This followed the 1992 Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty which extended the 1992 UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) that commits state parties to reduce greenhouse gasses.

It's seem you are just ignorant about the United Nations and all the works it does. I suggest you stop your rambling and learn something about the UN

The UN doesn't do anything ? Not much !!!
 
Rich2018 said:
Like I said, you clearly have no idea what the function of the UN is

It has many functions:

1. It's a talking shop - an international forum where diplomacy gets done
(it's greatest moment in this was during to Cuban missile crisis)

2. It grants legal authority in international law - such as in the Korean War, but also Gulf War I. Its authority was notably lacking in Gulf War II
This is important if countries try to sue you in international courts, as Russia and its oligarchs will find out after hostilities end
"The International Court of Justice is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations. Its seat is at the Peace Palace in the Hague (Netherlands). It is the only one of the six principal organs of the United Nations not located in New York (United States of America). The Court’s role is to settle, in accordance with international law, legal disputes submitted to it by States and to give advisory opinions on legal questions referred to it by authorized United Nations organs and specialized agencies. The International Court of Justice functions in accordance with its Statute."

3. Following on from that, the legal authority under international law for war crimes tribunals comes from the UN.

4. Treaties regarding the Law of Armed Combat - like the banning of chemical/biological weapons, landmines, cluster bombs are done under the auspices of the UN.

5. It provides peace keeping troops, like those present in Cyprus since the 70's
Note: these are peace KEEPING troops, not peace MAKING troops
A particular success for them was the containment of genocide in Bosnia/Kosovo in the 1990's.

6. It distributes large amounts of $$$ to where it's urgently needed, like setting up refugee camps.

7. The World Health Organization (WHO), is an agency of the UN
Probably it's greatest success was the eradication of smallpox, but it does a tremendous amount of work trying to control other diseases with vaccines and the creation of good sanitation accross the globe.

8. UN Save The Children foundation - I couldn't be bothered typing up all the good things it does but you can read about it here:
www.savethechildren.org

United Nations General Assembly

World leaders from 193 countries will come together at the United Nations General Assembly and commit to 17 Global Goals with save the children in mind.
www.savethechildren.org www.savethechildren.org

9. UNESCO (The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, seeks to build peace through international cooperation).

10. Climate - the Paris Climate Accords, is an international treaty on climate change, adopted in 2015. It was negotiated by 196 countries at the 2015 UN Climate Change Conference(UNCCC)
This followed the 1992 Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty which extended the 1992 UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) that commits state parties to reduce greenhouse gasses.

It's seem you are just ignorant about the United Nations and all the works it does. I suggest you stop your rambling and learn something about the UN

The UN doesn't do anything ? Not much !!!
Click to expand...
All these guy know is the RW media does not like the UN good enough research for them.
 
SCrider said:
All these guy know is the RW media does not like the UN good enough research for them.
Click to expand...
Comprehensive responses to substantive posts require some time, not that it appears that you are generally trending to the former.

Rich2018 said:
Like I said, you clearly have no idea what the function of the UN is

It has many functions:

1. It's a talking shop - an international forum where diplomacy gets done
(it's greatest moment in this was during to Cuban missile crisis)
Click to expand...
The UN bureaucracy' 'talking shop', if even the case, and under rather generous guise of 'diplomacy' is questionable, especially that the most often reported development from the UN has a long list of parking tickets (or more heinous crimes) from which they are protected from under 'diplomatic immunity', as well as the dubious 'Climate Change' Earth ending announcement every 6 months or so, the remediation of which, as per the UN's recommendations, is a massive give away program from the developed Western nations to the less developed nations; so in other words from those they seek to punish for their economic success to be given to those whom they deem worthy of receiving whatever they can extort from the former nations, all the while they are in control of who is designated to be confiscated from, and who is designated to be receiving what which they've confiscated from the former.

Punishing success isn't a path to more success, instituting dependency isn't a path to more success either, but this is the typical Marxist ideology, which is prevalent in the UN, and, as history has shown, leads to nothing more than abject failure and expansion of human misery, particularly inflicted on those whom the flawed policies were professed and assured to benefit and enable in the first place.

==>> I'd like you to elaborate more on your point: 'it's greatest moment in this was during to Cuban missile crisis'. I'm always wanting to learn more from history. <<==

From my recollection of history, and I profess no extraordinary proficiency or study, the Cuban missile crisis was a face off between Kennedy and Khrushchev, the issue being US nuclear missiles based in Turkey (US) and in Cuba (Russia). The Russians withdrew theirs first, and Kennedy later withdrew the US ones in Turkey (they were obsolete anyway so good bargaining by Kennedy there).

Where was the UN in all this, as you've asserted? Maybe I'll learn something new? I'm open to that.
(cont.)
 
Rich2018 said:

2. It grants legal authority in international law - such as in the Korean War, but also Gulf War I. Its authority was notably lacking in Gulf War II
This is important if countries try to sue you in international courts, as Russia and its oligarchs will find out after hostilities end
"The International Court of Justice is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations. Its seat is at the Peace Palace in the Hague (Netherlands). It is the only one of the six principal organs of the United Nations not located in New York (United States of America). The Court’s role is to settle, in accordance with international law, legal disputes submitted to it by States and to give advisory opinions on legal questions referred to it by authorized United Nations organs and specialized agencies. The International Court of Justice functions in accordance with its Statute."
Click to expand...
I think this more a paper tiger than anything else.

Rich2018 said:
3. Following on from that, the legal authority under international law for war crimes tribunals comes from the UN.
Click to expand...
When the UN actually has authority to enter a country, arrest and detain such war crime criminals, or get another law enforcement agency to do so, let me know. Until they can, they are little more than a paper hanging tiger. All bark and no teeth.

Rich2018 said:
4. Treaties regarding the Law of Armed Combat - like the banning of chemical/biological weapons, landmines, cluster bombs are done under the auspices of the UN.

5. It provides peace keeping troops, like those present in Cyprus since the 70's
Note: these are peace KEEPING troops, not peace MAKING troops
A particular success for them was the containment of genocide in Bosnia/Kosovo in the 1990's.
Click to expand...
This already called out in previous post. Seems they let loose rapists in their name as 'Peace Keepers', and in some of the most vulnerable locals, then don't take actions to correct discipline or prosecute those committing those crimes, or at least none reported that I have read / viewed. Do please correct me if I'm not accurate.
 
(cont.)

Rich2018 said:
6. It distributes large amounts of $$$ to where it's urgently needed, like setting up refugee camps.
Click to expand...
Giving away someone else's money they've confistacted for someone else's benefit, whom they get to chose? Seems a recurring theme with the left.

The political differences between Republicans and Democrats don’t play out solely at the ballot box; they also predict how likely people are to donate to charity. This finding from a newly published research project reflects a key difference, one tied to political affiliation, about how our nation should take on critical social issues like homelessness, poverty, and health care. The data also suggest that in times of political strife, both parties’ supporters pull back, making problem-solving harder.

Using voting and IRS data for the residents of 3,000 counties across the nation, the four-professor research team found, according to the New York Times, that counties which are “overwhelmingly Republican” report higher charitable contributions than Democratic-dominated counties, although “giving in blue counties is often bolstered by a combination of charitable donations and higher taxes. But as red or blue counties become more politically competitive, charitable giving tends to fall.” The full study was recently published in the Nonprofit and Voluntary Sector Quarterly.
nonprofitquarterly.org

Republicans Give More to Charity Than Democrats, but There’s a Bigger Story Here - Non Profit News | Nonprofit Quarterly

One could conclude that Republican party is, despite the conventional wisdom, the party that cares about those in need and puts its money where its mouth is. But the true picture is more complex, reflecting at best a real difference between the parties in the best way to approach the challenge...
nonprofitquarterly.org nonprofitquarterly.org

But then, it's been long and well known known:

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
― Margaret Thatcher

We find this not only in the UN, but also, and more troubling so, the US government.

Rich2018 said:
7. The World Health Organization (WHO), is an agency of the UN
Probably it's greatest success was the eradication of smallpox, but it does a tremendous amount of work trying to control other diseases with vaccines and the creation of good sanitation accross the globe.
Click to expand...
Is this the same WHO which

They betray what they know from the science for what they need politically, 'deviated from China's messaging' not permitted?
And yet you hold them in such high regard? Isn't that rather foolish?
 
(cont)

Rich2018 said:
8. UN Save The Children foundation - I couldn't be bothered typing up all the good things it does but you can read about it here:
www.savethechildren.org

United Nations General Assembly

World leaders from 193 countries will come together at the United Nations General Assembly and commit to 17 Global Goals with save the children in mind.
www.savethechildren.org www.savethechildren.org

9. UNESCO (The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, seeks to build peace through international cooperation).

10. Climate - the Paris Climate Accords, is an international treaty on climate change, adopted in 2015. It was negotiated by 196 countries at the 2015 UN Climate Change Conference(UNCCC)
This followed the 1992 Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty which extended the 1992 UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) that commits state parties to reduce greenhouse gasses.
Click to expand...
The Paris Climate Accords, which only hold Western nations accountable for reductions, yet ignore the worst polluters, namely China and India? On, no bias, the loaded agenda there. Yeah, right. This feeds right back into Global Climate change religion and ideology, being little more than an over wealth redistribution scheme with the UN skimming their percentage.
I say Global Climate change religion and ideology purposefully, in that questioning it or challenging it immediately makes you a heretic, suitable for attack, marginalization, and silencing, by force or 'whatever means are necessary' (yet another core value of the left).

Besides, after the US withdrew from the Paris Climate Accords, this happened:
freebeacon.com

Bloomberg: U.S. Meeting Paris Climate Goals Without Being Part of the Agreement

Possible 2020 candidate Michael Bloomberg said the U.S. is meeting its goals under the Paris Climate Accords despite President Trump withdrawing.
freebeacon.com freebeacon.com
So what's the need? Twist the arms of nations already meeting or exceeding their commitments? Or twisting the arms of the those nations who don't (which never happens).

Rich2018 said:
It's seem you are just ignorant about the United Nations and all the works it does. I suggest you stop your rambling and learn something about the UN
Click to expand...
No, I think I have the UN pretty well pegged.

Rich2018 said:
The UN doesn't do anything ? Not much !!!
Click to expand...
 
eohrnberger said:

UN Delegates Walk Out as Russia's Lavrov Speaks. A majority of delegates attending the UN Human Rights Council walked out as Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergei Lavrov made his intervention ...​

Dozens of diplomats walked out on a speech at a UN meeting in Geneva by Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov to protest against the war Credit: AFP. And in a poignant show of global unity ...​

More than 100 U.N. diplomats walked out of two meetings in Geneva on Tuesday as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov began to defend Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Russia has claimed its invasion ...​

On Tuesday, as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov began to address the United Nations' Human Rights Council in Geneva, Switzerland, a majority of delegates walked out of the room in protest ...​

TodayDozens of diplomats walked out of a speech by the Russian foreign minister to the UN human rights forum on Tuesday. Sergei Lavrov was addressing the UN human rights council remotely, after ...​

The UN showing about as much balls as they ever do. :rolleyes:
Can anyone see anything of real significance in this? Other than a rather lame diplomats doing what they always do?
Click to expand...
I don't know, it was kind of cool when they all laughed at Trump too.
 
So, no, in summary, I don't think that the UN really has any real significant role, nor any real significant impact on world affairs; I think it is far too expensive for what it marginally does provide, and I think that it has already been compromised by both the bureaucrats and leftists to further the growth and expansion of the bureaucracy and the destructive control the leftists seem to be so hell bent on obtaining.
 
All this is commendable but I doubt it has much affect. Putin doesn't care if is liked or not. I doubt he care's if he is sanctioned, if he is shunned by the west, or if he invades a sovereign nation and orders the murder of civilians in his military action. I believe he thinks that once he has taken Ukraine and returns to his old "normal" the world will forget about what he has done. Sadly he may be right.
 
eohrnberger said:

UN Delegates Walk Out as Russia's Lavrov Speaks. A majority of delegates attending the UN Human Rights Council walked out as Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergei Lavrov made his intervention ...​

Dozens of diplomats walked out on a speech at a UN meeting in Geneva by Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov to protest against the war Credit: AFP. And in a poignant show of global unity ...​

More than 100 U.N. diplomats walked out of two meetings in Geneva on Tuesday as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov began to defend Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Russia has claimed its invasion ...​

On Tuesday, as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov began to address the United Nations' Human Rights Council in Geneva, Switzerland, a majority of delegates walked out of the room in protest ...​

TodayDozens of diplomats walked out of a speech by the Russian foreign minister to the UN human rights forum on Tuesday. Sergei Lavrov was addressing the UN human rights council remotely, after ...​

The UN showing about as much balls as they ever do. :rolleyes:
Can anyone see anything of real significance in this? Other than a rather lame diplomats doing what they always do?
Click to expand...
1646279830429.png​
 
Walkouts are a time-honoured form of diplomatic protest.

I presume the OP is equally offended at Boebert and Greene turning their backs during Biden’s speech and heckling him when he discussed his son’s death?

I mean if a UN walkout offends you that much sport, you must be absolutely gobsmacked by their manners.
 
eohrnberger said:
Don't try and divert.

As respectfully requested:

Do please elaborate what usefulness the UN has demonstrated in it's existence, especially in recent years, where all you hear from them is their Global Climate Change fear mongering, which coincidentally hands them control of vast global money movement and to whom that money should be taken, and to whom it should go. (Follow the money!)
Click to expand...
The UN is only as good as it’s member nations. It provides a platform for diplomatic means in order to prevent the scourge of war.

The UN provided the platform for Russia, the US, the UK and Ukraine to make a deal, called The Budapest Memorandum. Your criticism of the UN is misplaced and should be directed at Russia for breaking the Budapest Memorandum and also at the US and UK for not providing protection as stated within the Memorandum.

Like I said before, the UN is only as good as it’s member nations, for which many lack any semblance of honor. Until the world can create something better, it’s better to have it than not. But to make the UN better would consist of world powers having to relinquish their ability to wage war at will wouldn’t it?

And those mad scientists must not know as much as you and those exaggerated conspiracy theories, eh?
 
Buck Naked said:
The UN is only as good as it’s member nations.
Click to expand...
Considering how many of the authoritarian and totalitarian nations are part of the UN, doesn't build very much confidence, does it?

Buck Naked said:
It provides a platform for diplomatic means in order to prevent the scourge of war.
Click to expand...
Such as the war that just started? How would you rate the effectiveness of the UN in this instance?

Buck Naked said:
The UN provided the platform for Russia, the US, the UK and Ukraine to make a deal, called The Budapest Memorandum. Your criticism of the UN is misplaced and should be directed at Russia for breaking the Budapest Memorandum and also at the US and UK for not providing protection as stated within the Memorandum.
Click to expand...

The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.[1]​
​
The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[2]​

Good background, thanks.

Points out the incompetency of the present US administration, in that this wasn't waved around as justification for earlier and greater action. Instead, this administration seceded the initiative to Putin, to the result we now have.

It also points out the incompetency and ineffectiveness of the UN, for not having taken similar, stronger and earlier action as well.

Buck Naked said:
Like I said before, the UN is only as good as it’s member nations, for which many lack any semblance of honor.
Click to expand...
So none at all. Such 'any semblance of honor' is little more than illusion.

Buck Naked said:
Until the world can create something better, it’s better to have it than not. But to make the
Click to expand...

Buck Naked said:
UN better would consist of world powers having to relinquish their ability to wage war at will wouldn’t it?
Click to expand...
Exactly what the globalists want, and also exactly what most people don't want. The EU being an example of such, it is also about as ineffective as the UN is.

Buck Naked said:
And those mad scientists must not know as much as you and those exaggerated conspiracy theories, eh?
Click to expand...
Follow the money is all you have to do.
 
The Mark said:
I mean, the UN only has what power it does because the various nations involved let it.

You can't expect them to do more when they're not allowed to.
Click to expand...
Correct, so why be a part of a dysfunctional organization?
 
The UN is mostly useless, but this was a public humiliation to Russia. Putin ****ed himself here quite a bit.
 
Ikari said:
The UN is mostly useless, but this was a public humiliation to Russia. Putin ****ed himself here quite a bit.
Click to expand...
Agreed on both counts. But I don't think that Putin cares much.
 
eohrnberger said:
Agreed on both counts. But I don't think that Putin cares much.
Click to expand...
I think his threatening Finland and Sweden shows that he does care. I don't think he expected such a large, global response to his moves.
 
Ikari said:
I think his threatening Finland and Sweden shows that he does care.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on that a bit more. Not following you on how Putin threatening Finland and Sweden shows that he cares.

Ikari said:
I don't think he expected such a large, global response to his moves.
Click to expand...
This probably very likely. Albite that global response was too late to preempt his actions, unfortunately.
 
eohrnberger said:
Can you elaborate on that a bit more. Not following you on how Putin threatening Finland and Sweden shows that he cares.


This probably very likely. Albite that global response was too late to preempt his actions, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
While the UN thing is mostly just window dressing, it was a black eye for him. And it shows the global outrage to his actions in Ukraine. Finland and Sweden all of a sudden considering NATO over this is another part of the global outrage to his actions. And he's worried about this reaction, I believe. That's why he had to threaten Finland and Sweden, why the UN reaction means something to his goals.

Hell, his own people are protesting against him, even though it means being arrested or perhaps worse. I think he's slipping a bit here, he thought the usual suspects would be against him but that it wouldn't be such a unified retaliation against him. I think he's worried and getting more so by the day.
 
Ikari said:
While the UN thing is mostly just window dressing, it was a black eye for him.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It was.
Ikari said:
And it shows the global outrage to his actions in Ukraine. Finland and Sweden all of a sudden considering NATO over this is another part of the global outrage to his actions.
Click to expand...
Now I gotcha. I hadn't realized that they weren't NATO countries. This makes it clear, thanks.

Ikari said:
And he's worried about this reaction, I believe. That's why he had to threaten Finland and Sweden, why the UN reaction means something to his goals.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
Ikari said:
Hell, his own people are protesting against him, even though it means being arrested or perhaps worse. I think he's slipping a bit here, he thought the usual suspects would be against him but that it wouldn't be such a unified retaliation against him. I think he's worried and getting more so by the day.
Click to expand...
Let's hope so.

Putin, miss-reading how NATO would unify is clearly an error on his part. It may very well turn out that his worst nightmare is going to come true, that the remaining former Soviet-block nations will be clamoring to join NATO, because of his actions. Irony that.
 
Roadvirus said:
I think that's already been well established.
Click to expand...
Well, @Ikari did post something that made sense in #46, but it isn't about Putin caring what happened in the UN, and more so caring about other nations in the region now wanting to be NATO members.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom