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Ukrainian Pilots Arrive In Poland To Pick Up Donated Fighter Jets

Liberal7360

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This is a very interesting development.

It will help the Ukrainians in their fight with putin.

I hope they get those planes in time to bomb that 17 mile convoy of russian troops headed to Ukraine.

 

sanman

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

There are too many ways the Russians can retaliate. They could supply weapons to states that are hostile to the West.

Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?
 

Cardinal

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

Good point. Russia might retaliate by invading their country and bombing it.

There are too many ways the Russians can retaliate. They could supply weapons to states that are hostile to the West.

Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?
 

Hatuey

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

There are too many ways the Russians can retaliate. They could supply weapons to states that are hostile to the West.

Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?


Suspect stuff from suspect people.
 

Juks

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Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?
You are puzzling me. NATO is a defense pact which means that if one NATO country is attacked , all NATO countries are obliged to response.


But if one NATO country invades another country there is no obligation from the others to join in (look at the wars that the US has engaged in, has for example Poland and the Netherlands participated?) Sending weapons.... Please tell me do you have a weapon industry selling outside the US? Are you asking NATO for permission to sell those weapons?
 

Juin

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RetiredUSN

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

There are too many ways the Russians can retaliate. They could supply weapons to states that are hostile to the West.

Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?

Javelins and stingers don't count?

The USA, Germany, and others are already doing this.
 

EnigmaO01

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This is a very interesting development.

It will help the Ukrainians in their fight with putin.

I hope they get those planes in time to bomb that 17 mile convoy of russian troops headed to Ukraine.

New media one moment say its 17 miles and the next says it's 3 miles. Which is it? Have seen that in the same report by the same correspondents!
 

EnigmaO01

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

There are too many ways the Russians can retaliate. They could supply weapons to states that are hostile to the West.

Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?
Tough sheet. A country is being pounded by another country through no fault of its own and you're worried about fairness? Seriously?

Additionally Poland has a vested interest in stopping Russia as they could be next in line. Got a problem with that take it up with the security council.
 

PoS

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

There are too many ways the Russians can retaliate. They could supply weapons to states that are hostile to the West.

Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?
There's nothing in NATO's rules preventing a member state from supplying arms, they all do this.
 

tacomancer

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This is a very interesting development.

It will help the Ukrainians in their fight with putin.

I hope they get those planes in time to bomb that 17 mile convoy of russian troops headed to Ukraine.

70 jets! I hope Ukraine has the infrastructure to keep them supplied and they can be immediately useful.
 

TheParser

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I hope they get those planes in time to bomb that 17 mile convoy of russian troops headed to Ukraine.
Yes, it would great if those planes (and drones from some country?) could knock the blank out of that convoy.

BUT that Kremlin monster would have a meltdown and do anything in retaliation. (ANYthing!)
 

PeteEU

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Javelins and stingers don't count?

The USA, Germany, and others are already doing this.
They are technically defensive weapons. Fighters are offensive... technically.
 

BlueTex

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Yes, it would great if those planes (and drones from some country?) could knock the blank out of that convoy.

BUT that Kremlin monster would have a meltdown and do anything in retaliation. (ANYthing!)

The spring thaw is beginning in Ukraine... Convoys suck in those conditions...
 

Gateman_Wen

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This is a very interesting development.

It will help the Ukrainians in their fight with putin.

I hope they get those planes in time to bomb that 17 mile convoy of russian troops headed to Ukraine.

Since it's reportedly grown to 40 miles long I hope they came with plenty of munitions.
 

Decypher

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Suspect stuff from suspect people.
It’s odd that the the guys who get a tear in their eye and lump in their throat when talking about American freeberty are the same ones who say Ukraine just should welcome the Russians in.
 

bave

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The big question I would have is the maintenance of these aircraft and how modernized they are. Flying an 80's vintage Mig-29 against Su-35's is not a great idea....
 

BlueTex

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The big question I would have is the maintenance of these aircraft and how modernized they are. Flying an 80's vintage Mig-29 against Su-35's is not a great idea....


What kind of aircraft do you think the Ukraine air force already flies?
 

bave

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What kind of aircraft do you think the Ukraine air force already flies?

I would hope/imagine Ukranian aircraft are better maintained/modernized than Bulgarian aircraft. Either way, I think the Ukranian fixed wing air force is either destroyed or otherwise out of action. Haven't seen any substantiation of Ukranian air sorties, have you?
 

Questerr

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

There are too many ways the Russians can retaliate. They could supply weapons to states that are hostile to the West.

Since when does Poland get to act unilaterally as a NATO member? Are these the new NATO rules?

…Russia already supplies weapons to states hostile to the West.
 

Ahlevah

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This is only going to lead to retaliation from Russia. Is it really a good idea to do this?

Yes. Putin attacked a sovereign European state. In one stroke he violated an international order that’s maintained peace on the continent for almost eighty years. This can not be permitted to stand. Appeasement led the world to disaster in 1939. It should not take the same path again. Russia HAS to be defeated, and it won’t be by throwing blankets at it.
 

PoS

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What kind of aircraft do you think the Ukraine air force already flies?
You know what would be even better?

The US ought to send its entire armed drone fleet to Europe, paint it in Ukrainian colors, and let the Ukrainians bomb the hell out of the Russians on the ground. Since Russia has failed to achieve air superiority, this could cause massive casualties on the attacking forces.
 

sanman

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Yes. Putin attacked a sovereign European state. In one stroke he violated an international order that’s maintained peace on the continent for almost eighty years. This can not be permitted to stand. Appeasement led the world to disaster in 1939. It should not take the same path again. Russia HAS to be defeated, and it won’t be by throwing blankets at it.

The United States attacked a sovereign state called Serbia during this "peace on the continent for almost eighty years" -- somehow that doesn't get counted as an interruption of peace in your view.
The United States then carved territory out of that country Serbia and declared it to be a new independent country Kosovo. When the United States did this along with NATO, they literally scrapped the part of NATO's founding charter which declared NATO to be a purely defensive organization that will only fight on the soil of its own member states to defend them. At that point, NATO ceased to be a defensive organization and became a militarily expansionist organization. They then said, "don't worry, this is just temporary, Kosovo won't actually become a NATO member." Right now, Kosovo is using the Ukraine crisis to demand being made a NATO member. Kosovo isn't even located near Ukraine. Their argument is that Russia is an Orthodox Christian country and so is Serbia, and therefore NATO needs to protect against Orthodox Christian conquest/oppression. So is NATO now supposed to become a de facto ethnic/sectarian organization? Because that's what this really seems to be about. You don't like people of a certain ethnicity and you want NATO to beat them up for you.

It's very obvious that Ukraine is not a united society, despite your desire to turn a blind eye to this. One third of the country's population identifies as ethnically Russian. Why are these important things missing from your perspective? The Yanuckovitch govt was the democratically elected govt, and was thrown out by a street mob through Capital Insurrection street coup. Those people declared themselves to be the govt and then proceeded to outlaw Russian language and culture. This triggered Russia's military response to seize Russian-majority eastern Ukraine. Crimea didn't have to be seized, since it was already in Russian hands, just like Guantanamo is in US hands. So Zelensky is not some all-Ukrainian leader -- he represented a leadership that is ethnically skewed and not a representative govt like the one it threw out. I think it's very clear that 2014 was the year democracy was overthrown in Ukraine. And when you argue with them about it, they only vaguely reply "Well, what did you expect us to do when the govt was preventing us from joining EU?" That's not a justification for overthrowing a democratically elected govt.
 
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