Ukraine's Zelenskiy Says 'No Other Choice' Than To Talk To Russia, As Bucha Anger Rises

[Rogue Valley]

Ukraine's Zelenskiy Says 'No Other Choice' Than To Talk To Russia, As Bucha Anger Rises

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy says there is "no other choice" than to negotiate an end to the war with Russia, even if it's difficult to do amid signs that Russian forces may have committed atrocities against civilians.

www.rferl.org

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiyy speaks to reporters after seeing the carnage in Bucha firsthand on April 4.

4.5.22
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiyy says there is "no other choice" than to negotiate an end to the war with Russia, even if it's difficult to do amid signs that Russian forces may have committed atrocities against civilians that have sparked widespread condemnation and calls for war crimes investigations. Speaking in an interview with Ukrainian journalists that was broadcast on state television on April 5, Zelenskiyy called the events in Bucha "unforgiveable," and that "all of us, including myself, will perceive even the possibility of negotiations as a challenge." "The challenge is internal, first of all, one's own human challenge. Then, when you pull yourself together, and you have to do it, I think that we have no other choice," he added. The interview comes a day after Zelenskiy made an emotional trip to Bucha outside the capital, where Ukrainian officials say the bodies of civilians have been found, many of them shot in yards, streets, and homes. Zelenskiyy is due on April 5 to speak to the UN Security Council, where he is expected to demand tough new sanctions on Russia over the killings in the town of Bucha he has called "war crimes" and "genocide."

Horrific images of corpses left in the open, some with their hands bound behind them, have drawn international condemnation of Russia. Bucha Mayor Anatoliy Fedoruk said the killings -- which he estimated at around 300 civilians -- were "revenge for the Ukrainian resistance." NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said the pictures of mass graves and streets littered with the corpses of civilians revealed an "unbearable brutality Europe has not witnessed in many decades" and that he feared "more atrocities" are still to be discovered in Ukraine. Russian and Ukrainian delegations continue intensive peace talks despite the furor over the allegations. Negotiators from Ukraine and Russia are expected to continue talks via video link on solving the crisis on April 5. Zelenskiyy has said that Ukraine offered to become an officially neutral state that would have security guarantees from other countries. In the April 5 interview, he noted that Ukraine did not yet have a hard list of countries ready to provide the security guarantee, though talks continue.

I'm not sure how one negotiates with war criminals.... the butchers of civilians. Self-restraint is a mandatory asset.

 

[MamboDervish]

I'm not sure how one negotiates with war criminals.... the butchers of civilians. Self-restraint is a mandatory asset.

One cannot negotiate from a point of weakness, but only from a point of strength. If/when the Ukrainian Army, and the Ukrainian people, not only regain their recent national borders, but started driving Russia out of Crimea, then Moscow would have no choice but to come to terms with them. But that goal can only be achieved from ceaseless multilateral pressure, and a continuous stream of military supplies from the civilized world.

Which begs the question: How much is the civilized world willing to sacrifice to see Putin's ambitions thwarted?

 

[SkyChief]

An hour ago, Zelensky delivered a powerful speech to the U.N. General Assembly. He laid out what the U.N. must do in response to Putin. The General Assembly gave the obligatory applause at the end of his speech, but it was clear that many of the U.N. assembly members objected to be told what they must do.

Anyways, U.S./U.N. Ambassador Linda Thomas Greenfield expressed her support to the Ukrainian people and said:

"No one can be a shield for Russian aggression. Suspending Russia from the Human Rights Council is something we collectively have the power to do in the General Assembly. Our votes can make a real difference. Russia's participation on the Human Rights Council hurts the Council's credibility. It undermine the entire U.N., and it is just plain wrong."

This was an ideal response from the the U.S. embassador. She proposed a (non-violent) plan of action without committing the U.N. into doing something dangerous that could escalate the situation.

 

[Juin]

One cannot negotiate from a point of weakness, but only from a point of strength. If/when the Ukrainian Army, and the Ukrainian people, not only regain their recent national borders, but started driving Russia out of Crimea, then Moscow would have no choice but to come to terms with them. But that goal can only be achieved from ceaseless multilateral pressure, and a continuous stream of military supplies from the civilized world.

I agree. What baffles me is Zelensky's dedication to talks. If the media is to be believed, he has the Russians on the run, why let up the on the punches? And clearly cessation of hostilities at this stage means Ukraine loses a considerable chunk of real estate.

Maybe Zelensky knows something we don't

 

[MamboDervish]

I agree. What baffles me is Zelensky's dedication to talks. If the media is to be believed, he has the Russians on the run, why let up the on the punches? And clearly cessation of hostilities at this stage means Ukraine loses a considerable chunk of real estate.

Maybe Zelensky knows something we don't

I'm sure Zelenskiy knows things that we don't. I suspect we also knows things he does not.

He's an intelligent realist who has seen the destruction wrought in less than two months, and would rather not see his people suffer through 20 times that destruction over the next two years - which is, quite realistically, what it might take to oust a Russian occupational army from Ukraine.

 

[Rogue Valley]

An hour ago, Zelensky delivered a powerful speech to the U.N. General Assembly. He laid out what the U.N. must do in response to Putin. The General Assembly gave the obligatory applause at the end of his speech, but it was clear that many of the U.N. assembly members objected to be told what they must do.

You must have watched the Moscow version of the UN response then.

30 days ago 146 UN members condemned Russia for invading Ukraine for no reason.

I highly doubt that sentiment has changed now that mass executions of Ukraine civilians by the Russian military has come to light.

 

[HangLow]

Ukraine's Zelenskiy Says 'No Other Choice' Than To Talk To Russia, As Bucha Anger Rises

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy says there is "no other choice" than to negotiate an end to the war with Russia, even if it's difficult to do amid signs that Russian forces may have committed atrocities against civilians.

www.rferl.org

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiyy speaks to reporters after seeing the carnage in Bucha firsthand on April 4.
I'm not sure how one negotiates with war criminals.... the butchers of civilians. Self-restraint is a mandatory asset.

​

 

[SkyChief]

You must have watched the Moscow version of the UN response then.

30 days ago 146 UN members condemned Russia for invading Ukraine for no reason.

I highly doubt that sentiment has changed now that mass executions of Ukraine civilians by the Russian military has come to light.

I watched the Emergency U.N. General Assembly speech.

At the end of Zelensky's speech, the camera panned the assembly as they applauded. Many attending were looking in their laps as they applauded, a clear indication of their displeasure with Zelensky's demands. That's why I said: " it was clear that many of the U.N. assembly members objected to be told what they must do."

You obviously didn't watch the speech, OR the General Assembly's lukewarm response to it. Zelensky got out of his lane a little, but given the current situation, it is completely understandable.

The good news is that the U.S. Ambassador (Ms. Greenfield) conveyed a strong willingness to condemn Putin by suspending Russia from the U.N. Human Rights Council. This would send a strong message to Putin that the war must end immediately or else Russia could be banned permanently (although she didn't actually SAY this - - it was implied).

 

[Rogue Valley]

I watched the Emergency U.N. General Assembly speech.

As did I.

What you are conveniently neglecting to mention, is that President Zelenskyy spoke via Zoom to the UN Security Council... NOT the UN General Assembly where all the member nations sit.


Zelenskyy speech with translation (the UN needs better translators)



Post-speech UNSC member comments......

 

[oneworld2]

One cannot negotiate from a point of weakness, but only from a point of strength. If/when the Ukrainian Army, and the Ukrainian people, not only regain their recent national borders, but started driving Russia out of Crimea, then Moscow would have no choice but to come to terms with them. But that goal can only be achieved from ceaseless multilateral pressure, and a continuous stream of military supplies from the civilized world.

Which begs the question: How much is the civilized world willing to sacrifice to see Putin's ambitions thwarted?

There's a civilised world? I recall a quote attributed to Gandhi which when asked what he thought about western civilisation went something like" it would be a good idea." How we see it is wildly different to how those on the receiving end see it

Imo Zelensky knows he will have to negotiate some sort of deal to end the conflict before things in the east really kick off again and his 120,000 best troops in the region start getting a fearsome Russian barrage. He knows too he is in a position of weakness and will be fearing his own right wing more than the Russians

 

[Chagos]

Makes one wonder whether Ghandi still reserved his skepticism over civilization to the Western world, when a countryman assassinated him.

Or when the Hindus and Muslims in his own country had at each other in countless massacres even in his lifetime still.

The never ending whataboutism designed to show that "the Wesr" is just as bad cannot really deflect from the atrocities committed by others. Doesn't work in that direction and not in the opposite direction either.

Participants here remotely aware of that little fact display a certain level of intelligence in their debating efforts, the others just show to be stupid.

And often enough liars.

 

[oneworld2]

Makes one wonder whether Ghandi[sic] still reserved his skepticism over civilization to the Western world, when a countryman assassinated him.

Or when the Hindus and Muslims in his own country had at each other in countless massacres even in his lifetime still.

The never ending whataboutism designed to show that "the Wesr" is just as bad cannot really deflect from the atrocities committed by others. Doesn't work in that direction and not in the opposite direction either.

Participants here remotely aware of that little fact display a certain level of intelligence in their debating efforts, the others just show to be stupid.

And often enough liars.

It's good to know I live in your head, rent free lol

I'm sure Gandhi was wise enough, unlike many here, to understand that violence and atrocities are part of the human condition and can be found in the history of all groups/peoples. His answer was given in the context of assumed western exceptionalism and was rightly greeted with the contempt it deserved.

All of which is way above your level of understanding/commentary, as is confirmed further by your misspelling of his name lol

 

[oneworld2]

I'm not sure how one negotiates with war criminals.... the butchers of civilians. Self-restraint is a mandatory asset.

Ask the Taliban, they managed to negotiate with the US war criminals their retreat from Aghanistan. So it can be done.

 

[Chagos]

Evidence for Gandhi ever having made the remark is as weak as the gleeful but nevertheless silly behaviour of what one thinks constitutes a gotcha moment over a typing error.

While the conclusion that Gandhi's answer, whether he actually gave it or not, was rightly greeted with the contempt it deserved is absolutely false, even if it is obviously down to someone needing to work on his sentence structure.

While post #13 equating the US with Putin's Russia and the Taliban with Ukraine's current position is so daft that it really deserves no further address than calling it that.

But that's customary with our resident whatabouter, even while committing that logical fallacy he can't even get his equations right.

 

[oneworld2]

Evidence for Gandhi ever having made the remark is as weak as the gleeful but nevertheless silly behaviour of what one thinks constitutes a gotcha moment over a typing error.

While the conclusion that Gandhi's answer, whether he actually gave it or not, was rightly greeted with the contempt it deserved is absolutely false, even if it is obviously down to someone needing to work on his sentence structure.

While post #13 equating the US with Putin's Russia and the Taliban with Ukraine's current position is so daft that it really deserves no further address than calling it that.

But that's customary with our resident whatabouter, even while committing that logical fallacy he can't even get his equations right.

On the bright side you have at least learned how to spell Gandhi's name correctly.

Yep the US illegal attack and regime change war doesn't fit exactly either. For a start the Russians likely haven't killed anywhere near as many civilians as the US did. And until the oust Zelensky and co cannot be charged with an illegal regime change.

If they are still there in 2042 and rob the bank on their way out leaving the entire people food insecure though we might be able to make more telling comparisons

 

[Fledermaus]

On the bright side you have at least learned how to spell Gandhi's name correctly.

Yep the US illegal attack and regime change war doesn't fit exactly either. For a start the Russians likely haven't killed anywhere near as many civilians as the US did. And until the oust Zelensky and co cannot be charged with an illegal regime change.

If they are still there in 2042 and rob the bank on their way out leaving the entire people food insecure though we might be able to make more telling comparisons

Derailing.

 

[Chagos]

Somebody really deluding himself that I'll debate the asinine content of his equally asinine post(s).

 

[oneworld2]

Somebody really deluding himself that I'll debate the asinine content of his equally asinine post(s).

I understand your fear

 

[Chagos]

 

[Fledermaus]

I understand your fear

Ukraine's Zelenskiy Says 'No Other Choice' Than To Talk To Russia, As Bucha Anger Rises

Have you anything to add that isn't derailing or Whataboutism?

 

[HangLow]

One cannot negotiate from a point of weakness, but only from a point of strength. If/when the Ukrainian Army, and the Ukrainian people, not only regain their recent national borders, but started driving Russia out of Crimea, then Moscow would have no choice but to come to terms with them. But that goal can only be achieved from ceaseless multilateral pressure, and a continuous stream of military supplies from the civilized world.

Which begs the question: How much is the civilized world willing to sacrifice to see Putin's ambitions thwarted?

​