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12/1/18
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has said that Russia is amassing ground forces and weaponry along the border between the two countries. Speaking at a military event in Kyiv on December 1, Poroshenko said Russia has deployed "more than 80,000 troops, 1,400 artillery and multiple-rocket-launch systems, 900 tanks, 2,300 armored combat vehicles, 500 airplanes, and 300 helicopters" near the border. He also said Russia had 80 ships and eight submarines in the Aegean Sea, the Black Sea, and the Sea of Azov. The alleged buildup comes in the wake of a November 25 incident in which Russia seized three Ukrainian naval vessels and detained 24 Ukrainian sailors near the Kerch Strait. "The Kremlin is further testing the strength of the global order," Poroshenko said, adding that Moscow wants to see if the international community will allow Russia to claim the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov as its territorial waters.
Ukraine's Poroshenko Says Russia Amassing Forces Along Border
Russian armor is massing about 17 miles from the Ukraine border.
Putin would love to carve-out a land-corridor through southeastern Ukraine to Russia-occupied-Crimea.
Is Ukraine able to mount any sort of defense or are they doomed if Russia moves in?
I have very mixed feelings here. I hate to see someone like Putin given free reign to take whatever land he sees fit. However, Eastern Ukraine is populated by Russians. That was only part of Ukraine because of the Soviets. Notwithstanding is the fact that from the dawn of a Russian state up until 1992, Ukraine had always been part of Russia, so much so that the first capital of Russia was Kiev. The idea of a Ukranian state is less than 30 years old. It had been Russian for over 1000 years. Should we risk World War III over maintaining a 30 year idea?
Ukraine has the second largest standing military in Europe (250,000 active / 1 million in reserve) behind Russia. Due to geographical proximity however, Russian armor could be in Kyiv in less than a week.
Without resorting to nuclear weapons, every Western nation on the European continent would find itself hard pressed against Kremlin's forces.
Their salvation would be (1) Russia has lousy military supply logistics (2) US reinforcements and true power projection.
Presumably Russia should have to obtain permission from the 'international community' before moving its forces within its own. borders?
That would work ��.
Wake me up when Russia does 'invade' Ukraine, although I've been told for 4 years that it already has.
Still, I'm accustomed to the schizophrenic analysis which comes out of the West.
Presumably, 'Nigeria with Snow' is no threat to anyone in any case....... so no worry (least of all brave Lithuania which is so keen to fight Russia with everybody's else's people).
Rogue Valley:
I would be very wary of anything that either Putin or Poroshenko says publicly. That being said, Mr. Putin may be calculating that the conditions are right at this time to launch a second strike now rather than later. His thinking may be that the present US commander in chief might be very, very loathe to intervene in a second phase of the Russian dismemberment of Ukraine. That window of opportunity could close very soon or maybe at most in two years, so from Putin's perspective the time might be right to move again against Kiev/Kyiv. What's more is that if the US President moves against Mr. Putin's aggression then the Russian leadership can torpedo the sitting US President with compromising information which throws America into a distracting constitutional crisis and if the US President doesn't intervene then Russia gets what it wants while America tears itself apart politically anyway.
If Mr. Putin moves openly against Ukraine with military force again, don't expect him to stop in the Donbas. I think Russian forces will drive through Southern Ukraine, past Odessa and on to the frontier with Moldova. This will cut Ukraine off from the Black Sea and frighten Moldova into compliance with Kremlin policy. What will be left is a rump Ukraine which can be ravaged by air and long-range artillery/rocketry attack to keep it in a weakened and impotent state indefinitely.
Cheers?
Evilroddy.
Ukraine's Poroshenko Says Russia Amassing Forces Along Border
Russian armor is massing about 17 miles from the Ukraine border.
Putin would love to carve-out a land-corridor through southeastern Ukraine to Russia-occupied-Crimea.
Is Ukraine able to mount any sort of defense or are they doomed if Russia moves in?
Is Ukraine able to mount any sort of defense or are they doomed if Russia moves in?
Your history here is .... way off. Kyiv existed before there even was any Russia.
Edit. In addition, nowhere in this thread was it even suggested that the West come to Ukraine's aid militarily.
The US can't stop an invasion, and it could only try to reverse it through risking global nuclear war.
Rogue Valley:
I would be very wary of anything that either Putin or Poroshenko says publicly. That being said, Mr. Putin may be calculating that the conditions are right at this time to launch a second strike now rather than later. His thinking may be that the present US commander in chief might be very, very loathe to intervene in a second phase of the Russian dismemberment of Ukraine. That window of opportunity could close very soon or maybe at most in two years, so from Putin's perspective the time might be right to move again against Kiev/Kyiv. What's more is that if the US President moves against Mr. Putin's aggression then the Russian leadership can torpedo the sitting US President with compromising information which throws America into a distracting constitutional crisis and if the US President doesn't intervene then Russia gets what it wants while America tears itself apart politically anyway.
If Mr. Putin moves openly against Ukraine with military force again, don't expect him to stop in the Donbas. I think Russian forces will drive through Southern Ukraine, past Odessa and on to the frontier with Moldova. This will cut Ukraine off from the Black Sea and frighten Moldova into compliance with Kremlin policy. What will be left is a rump Ukraine which can be ravaged by air and long-range artillery/rocketry attack to keep it in a weakened and impotent state indefinitely.
Kiev existed, but it was the capital of the earliest Russian state, and that wasn't because Ukraine controlled Russia.
There was no Ukrainian state until 1992. Prior to that, it was part of Russia for over 1000 years, so the idea of Ukraine being separate from Russia is very recent.
As far as Western intervention, I think it's implied in the existence of the thread that Putin should be stopped. I'm certainly no fan of Putin, but I wouldn't risk war over a state that's only existed for 30 years and has no stability in maintaining a democracy.
where and when you got this book ? in Moscow in 1947? Muscovy (Mongolian ulus juchi) has had nothing to do with ancient Kiev rus´
Timothy Snyder, Chicago, USA, 9 November 2014.
Kiev existed, but it was the capital of the earliest Russian state, and that wasn't because Ukraine controlled Russia.
There was no Ukrainian state until 1992. Prior to that, it was part of Russia for over 1000 years, so the idea of Ukraine being separate from Russia is very recent.
As far as Western intervention, I think it's implied in the existence of the thread that Putin should be stopped. I'm certainly no fan of Putin, but I wouldn't risk war over a state that's only existed for 30 years and has no stability in maintaining a democracy.
where and when you got this book ? in Moscow in 1947? Muscovy (Mongolian ulus juchi) has had nothing to do with ancient Kiev rus´
Timothy Snyder, Chicago, USA, 9 November 2014.
It has already been pointed out to you before yes it did, vladamir was a state of rus which now covers western parts of russia and the western part is descended from rus. You can try and make up history all you want but nearly everything you post on slavic history can be debunked in a 3 second google search.
Right. The "Rus" has nothing to do with Russia. Talk about revisionist history.
Rurik ruled from Kiev. Rurik was the first "czar" (though he didn't hold the title). All rulers of Russia were descended from Rurik until Feodor I. There was no Ukrainian State until the 1990s.
Right. The "Rus" has nothing to do with Russia. Talk about revisionist history.
Rurik ruled from Kiev. Rurik was the first "czar" (though he didn't hold the title). All rulers of Russia were descended from Rurik until Feodor I. There was no Ukrainian State until the 1990s.
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