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Ukraine

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
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This Ukraine thread is a continuation of this lengthy thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/205200-future-ukraine-w-863-a-162.html



Russia building major military base near Ukraine border


An excavator is seen on Sept. 7 at a construction site for Russia's new military base near the
Russian-Ukrainian border in the village of Soloti, southeast of Belgorod, Russia.



Putin can’t annex Donbas, two Russian analysts say



OSCE refuses to monitor pseudo-elections in DPR and LPR



Russian Investigative Committee Head Advised to Have Head Examined



Three mistakes about Ukraine



156 Ukrainians held captive by militants – presidential envoy



European Parliament to vote on resolution condemning Russia for show trials


Ukrainian forces in the Lugansk region discovered a cache of the Igla anti-air missile system. Rebel eastern Ukraine is awash in such MANPAD systems which are highly deadly to civilian aircraft.


Four Russian ceasefire violations in the past 24 hrs...

Shchastya (mortar attack)
Novomariivka (Border Guard patrol came under mortar fire)
Avdiivka (small arms/RPG attack)
Maryinka (small arms attack)



Ukrainian film director Oleg Sentsov - sentenced to 20 years hard labor in a Russian "show trial"
 
We talk, Russia builds camps and conquers foreign territories in medieval style!
 

The Ukraine story has run its path. What we will see now is a rerun of the aftermath of WWII. If I were a worrying type, I would be looking at Syria now, where the stakes are actually quite high.
 
DDD said:
We talk, Russia builds camps and conquers foreign territories in medieval style!
Click to expand...

Putin is well trained for this type of war. He wages it much better than a social worker from Chicago ever could. That is why I am so appalled at the selection of inexperience we are parading to take on the world.
 
joG said:
Putin is well trained for this type of war. He wages it much better than a social worker from Chicago ever could. That is why I am so appalled at the selection of inexperience we are parading to take on the world.
Click to expand...

Why cannot we counter such invasions with the same measures taken in Afghanistan? Support Ukraine with training and weapons and let them do the fight? Exhaust Russia to the degree that it retreats on its own, and hopefully it declares bankruptcy again and divides itself in more countries that are struggling to be free from it from within?
 

Because it is near Europe and the US does not want to go it alone. If countries like Germany refuse to put real boots on the ground, then places like Syria will fester.
 
joG said:
Because it is near Europe and the US does not want to go it alone. If countries like Germany refuse to put real boots on the ground, then places like Syria will fester.
Click to expand...

Yes, not going at it alone sounds good. Deutchland and USA.

A bit of irony there helping Ukraine after the damage it caused in Nazi Germany in WW2?
 
joG said:
Putin is well trained for this type of war. He wages it much better than a social worker from Chicago ever could. That is why I am so appalled at the selection of inexperience we are parading to take on the world.
Click to expand...

Well said. I would like your post, but my "like" button disappeared.

joG said:
The Ukraine story has run its path. What we will see now is a rerun of the aftermath of WWII. If I were a worrying type, I would be looking at Syria now, where the stakes are actually quite high.
Click to expand...
I disagree about Ukraine. The story has not run its path at all. Russia is not going to be satisfied with parts of two rust belt provinces with largely played out coal mines. Sooner or later, the issue of whether or not Ukraine is a Russian protectorate will be decided.
 
Last edited:
DDD said:
Yes, not going at it alone sounds good. Deutchland and USA.

A bit of irony there helping Ukraine after the damage it caused in Nazi Germany in WW2?
Click to expand...

The Germans were heavily involved in creating the recent damage to Ukraine as well. They were responsible for not accepting Ukraine under the Nato umbrella, when Ukraine asked for that protection and were a leading architect of the Trade Treaty, which provoked Putin so much that he felt he had to act.. Not that many here in Germany actually realize that.
 

- The like button is fickle, indeed. I have the same problem sometimes, when I have responded and want to hit it, it does not work till I come back from a different page.

- There you might be right. If the Europeans block Ukraine's entry into Nato the Russians might very well some day topple the Kiev government or pay a PM to sign a treaty, like they did the German Chancellor a while back.
 

Neither did I realize that! And the proposal for Ukraine to join NATO was during our war during 1999's or so!
 





Ukraine joins Western blockade of Russian military flights to Syria




Russian invasion driving up mortality rates across Ukraine, Kyiv experts say




Ukraine's pro-Russia rebels target media in propaganda war




Nemtsov, Savchenko Nominated For 2015 Sakharov Prize


Ukrainian POW captive Lieutenant Nadiya Savchenko (left) and assassinated Russian activist Boris Nemtsov.
Both individuals have been nominated by the European Parliament for the 2015 Sakharov Prize.
The prize is awarded every year “to honor exceptional individuals who combat intolerance, fanaticism and oppression.




In Ukraine, General Winter now working against Russia




Кладбище боевиков в Донецке: территория разрастается, а свежие могилы без цветов и свечей (фото)


Rebel military cemetery in Donetsk has increased 3x over the past year. New graves no longer feature candles and flowers.




Kremlin Uses Minsk Protocol to Undermine Ukraine Government



For the first time in one and a half years, there were no Russian ceasefire violations yesterday. The Rebels have announced a tentative date of 1 November for elections in the territory they occupy. However this would be yet another illegal election and a violation of Minsk II which stipulates that all elections in eastern Ukraine are subject to Ukrainian law. The OSCE monitoring organization has already stated that it will not monitor any election that is not sanctioned by Ukrainian law.



 

Ukraine president Petro Poroshenko with some of the participants at the 12th annual Yalta European Strategy
(YES) forum in Kyiv. The forum was moved to Kyiv due to the current illegal occupation of Crimea by the Russian Federation.




Dem senator: US to begin training Ukrainian military forces




Putin Seeking to Destabilize Ukraine While ‘Imitating’ a Russian Pullback in Donbas




Analyst says Russian propaganda destroyed border between fact, fiction




Ukraine needs to get rid of its oligarchic-kleptocratic system



Former Russian mercenary to Donbas addresses Putin: “It’s not worth it”




Brutalized pawns: Ukrainians trapped in Russian jails




Moscow is currently playing nice ... Putin is scheduled to address the UN later this month. In addition, the EU will consider extending Russian sanctions into 2016 during December. Putin definitely does not want to see the sanctions rollover so he has temporarily ratcheted back the violence. But Putin is doing nothing substantive ... no return of the stolen Crimea, no withdrawal of soldiers/weapons from eastern Ukraine. Putin wants Kyiv to feed Donbass while he rules it.

5 Russian ceasefire violations in the pst 24 hours...

Donetsk airport area (various sustained attacks - 1 UA WIA)
Avdiivka (RPGs / small arms attacks)
Opytnoye (artillery / RPG attacks)
Krasnohorivka (machine gun attacks)
Mariinka (AGLs / machine gun attacks)




Ukrainian political prisoners held captive in Russia
 
DDD said:
We talk, Russia builds camps and conquers foreign territories in medieval style!
Click to expand...


Meanwhile the US opposes Russian and Iranian aid to Assad, effectively supporting ISIS and the continuation of the "refugee" crisis. People in Europe are waking up to the fact that with "friends" like the United States government we do not need "enemies" like Putin.
 

Assad? The massacring mastermind?
 
I never thought about that, by condemning and making attempts to block Russian and Iranian aid to Syria - who is fighting against ISIL - the US government is effectively yet indirectly supporting ISIL... again. -facepalm- The world is run by idiots who really mean it.
 
Also idiots who never really learn. Saddam and Gaddafi are already two examples. I wonder whether they have ever met a Syrian and asked him/her about Assad and the whole situation. Many say that under Assad it was not so bad. This is evidenced by the fact that after the US invaded Iraq and the insurgency began, many christians fled the sectarian violence and attempts on their lives to Syria of all places. A repeat of this is already happening. ISIS is quite fond of killing and enslaving christians. A Syrian I have talked to ascribed the origin of the problem to 1001 different versions of islam and everyone pushing for his version and not willing to compromise. Assad was and is keeping the place together and under control.

I would like to ask the people opposing Assad the following questions:

  • Do you really think that with Assad gone, the remaining christians will be secure or do you rather transfer problems created by the US (Iraq, Libya, ...) to the EU, thinking we should have a free for all benefits handout for the refugees?
  • Would you assume personal responsibility for a change and push for a greater deal of immigration to the US?
  • In the case Assad is gone, are you truly still naive enough to assume that he will be replaced by a representative democracy in which all different political and religious factions will be properly represented and discuss their issues in a parliament or house of representatives, and this will magically work out?
 
Thread: Ukraine

This thread isn't about Syria. If you want to discuss Syria, plz start a dedicated thread on that topic in the Middle East forum.



Savchenko’s lawyer: only diplomatic pressure can lead to her release




Ukraine Border Guards caught 2 infiltrators in the Luhansk region (Melovoye). Dressed in military uniforms w/no insignia. In their possession were night vision goggles (NVGs), Russian passports and Russian military IDs from the Voronezh region.

A huge explosion at the Butovka mine which was heard and felt throughout Donetsk. Windows rattled, doors opened, and plaster fell from walls. Rebels said a stock of munitions blew up when a military vehicle in the mine caught fire.

Russian ceasefire violations yesterday (9/12)...

Syze (recon probe)
Staromykhailivka
Krasnohorivka (6 mortar shells landed)
Avdiivka (RPG / small arms attacks)
Zaitsev (small arms)
 
Simpleχity;1065030614 said:
This thread isn't about Syria. If you want to discuss Syria, plz start a dedicated thread on that topic in the Middle East forum.
Click to expand...
Sorry.
 




Kremlin-backed militants inadvertently acknowledge minimal public support



Ukraine Takes On 'Mission Impossible' In Push Westward



Former Russian rebels trade war in Ukraine for posh life in Moscow


Russian Alexander Borodai, center, former prime minister of the self-proclaimed “Donetsk People’s Republic”


'Unlawful' vote in rebel-run areas would breach Ukraine peace deal



As war wanes, Ukraine faced with new battle against corruption

I agree that it is difficult to institute reforms while at war and with a damaged economy. However, the Poroshenko coalition has done nothing to reform the judicial system and purge Ukraine of corrupt prosecutors and judges. Why has Poroshenko not fired Prosecutor General Victor Shokin? ​Poroshenko-Yatsenyuk are turning into Yushchenko-Tymoshenko and should get the boot after one term.




I'll say it again ... Putin wants (his) political points (a radical form of federalization) in Minsk II to be implemented yet refuses to implement the military points - complete POW exchanges, total withdrawal of Russian troops and her mercenaries, restoration of the Ukrainian border, total and complete withdrawal of all heavy weapons verified by OSCE and a total and complete monitoring by OSCE—none of that has been achieved. Russia has gone into a ceasefire right now because of Syria, Putin's upcoming UN visit, and the coming potential EU sanctions rollovers in December.

The Ukraine armed forces will receive 400 more armored Humvees by year end. Drone imagery revealed a significant concentration of Russian military equipment in the area of Alchevsk (LPR-controlled). Six heavy artillery systems, seven (towed) battlefield guns, three main battle tanks (MBT), 43 armored vehicles, 80 military-type trucks, and 29 pieces of unidentified military equipment.

Russian ceasefire violations yesterday...

Syze (Spetsnaz attack repelled)
Maryinka (small arms attacks)
Sanzharivka
Lozova
Zaitsev
 

Sir Elton John and and David Furnish show T-shirts depicting political prisoners Oleg Sentsov and Nadiya Savchenko held captive in Russia.




Poroshenko to speak at 70th session of UN General Assembly on Sept. 29

Poroshenko expects parliament to support lifting of MP, judicial immunity during current session

Poroshenko urges parliament to scrap bail in corruption cases




Russia may concede on Syria for free hand in Ukraine — analysts




Putin changing tactics in Ukraine but not strategy, Shevtsova says




“DNR” poll finds population doesn’t support Russia or “pro-Moscow militias”




Canadian troops arrive in Ukraine to train soldiers fighting separatists


Officers of the Royal Canadian Regiment’s 1st Battalion in Yavoriv, Ukraine




EU extends sanctions against Russia over Ukraine crisis




Europeans ‘not grasping’ the importance of Ukraine - John Lloyd




In Horlivka Russian forces executed a rebel soldier and a local resident for attempting to fire an artillery gun. In another Donetsk district, Russian officers sentenced two rebels to death for abuse of rights. It is reported by locals that drunk rebels shot to death 3 residents of Novoazovsk. Terrorist rings arrested in Odessa, Mariupol, and the Artemivsk area. Explosives in sealed white plastic bags and marked 'Novorossiya Aid Foundation' were found in a Mariupol area warehouse where Russian "humanitarian convoy" goods are stored.

Russian ceasefire violations yesterday - 2 UA soldiers KIA / 1 UA soldier MIA / 2 civilians WIA...

Schastye (RPG attack)
Sokolniki (mortar attack)
Mayorska (RPG / small arms attack)
Zaitsev (RPG / small arms attack)
Stanitsia Luganskaya
Volnovakha



A Ukrainian serviceman embraces his wife and child after returning from the front-line in the east
 

An exclusive excerpt from a new report shows how Russia has covered up its dirty war in Eastern Europe

Finding Putin’s Dead Soldiers in Ukraine




EU Extends Russia Sanctions Over Ukraine Crisis




Putin Losing in Ukraine, Looks to Syria




Russian aggression in Ukraine reflects major demographic considerations




When Painting a Ukrainian Flag Is A Hate Crime In Moscow




Will Putin Exchange Donbass for Syria?









The number of Internally Displaced People (IDPs) within Ukraine from Putin's wars in Crimea and eastern Ukraine has reached 1,483,000. This is far worse than the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster. Most folks are unaware, but Poroshenko oftentimes pays for paramilitary equipment out of his own pocket to save time.

Dnepropetrovsk in the past week has received 56 wounded and 6 dead from ATO zone. The Russians shot down a OSCE ceasefire-monitor drone yesterday and 9 times violated the ceasefire...

Chermalyk (82 mm mortar attacks)
Gnutovo (RPG attacks)
Mariinka (RPGs/AA/small arms)
Luganskoye (small arms attacks)
Krymska (sniper attack)
Zholobok (small arms attacks)


 
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