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Ukraine Weapons Tracker... Russian Army Especially Generous Today

Grand Mal said:
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Those words painted on the ground at either end of the building are the Russian word for 'children'. The theatre was being used to shelter kids in the bombed-out city of Mariupol.
The Russians bombed it.

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Got an example of Ukraine targeting civilians? Far as I know Ukraine hasn't taken this fight into Russia. Yet.
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Painting the world “children” by a building is not a magic talisman. And the Ukes have repeatedly staged military equipment in civilian vehicles, buildings, neighborhoods, etc.

So if it’s reasonable to presume there’s military equipment in a specific target it’s permissible to target it.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Painting the world “children” by a building is not a magic talisman. And the Ukes have repeatedly staged military equipment in civilian vehicles, buildings, neighborhoods, etc.

So if it’s reasonable to presume there’s military equipment in a specific target it’s permissible to target it.
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Why do you hate children so much?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
You must have mistaken me for the Azov battalion
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No. It's a logical deduction based on your weak sauce attempt to rationalize the slaughter of the most treasured and innocents of any civilized, compassionate society as a collective.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Ask the Azov battalion, as well as the artillery Targetting Russian humanitarian corridors. And whoever deployed cluster munitions against Donetsk earlier this week.

Ukraine has done so and will continue to do so because their patron states will not hold them accountable for it
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Citation?
 
Logician Man said:
No. It's a logical deduction based on your weak sauce attempt to rationalize the slaughter of the most treasured and innocents of any civilized, compassionate society as a collective.
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You’ve provided no evidence of slaughter of children to begin with. You are merely parroting Uke propaganda based on their purposeful use of civilian facilities for military application
 
EMNofSeattle said:
You’ve provided no evidence of slaughter of children to begin with. You are merely parroting Uke propaganda based on their purposeful use of civilian facilities for military application
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Why do you hate children so much?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Why do you?
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My wife and myself are raising two of our great-grand children. Try again.----But points for admitting you do hate innocent children, and have no issues with them being slaughtered by a brutal dictator.
 
Logician Man said:
My wife and myself are raising two of our great-grand children. Try again.----But points for admitting you do hate innocent children, and have no issues with them being slaughtered by a brutal dictator.
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So Ukrainian children can be used as shields by Azov but not yours? Is that your argument?
 
Logician Man said:
You're pathetic, hate-filled words^---not mine.
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You’re the one dancing around failure to condemn literal Nazis from endangering children
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Painting the world “children” by a building is not a magic talisman.
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Apparently not. The Russian military ignores signs such as "children" and "press" etc.

EMNofSeattle said:
And the Ukes have repeatedly staged military equipment in civilian vehicles, buildings, neighborhoods, etc.

So if it’s reasonable to presume there’s military equipment in a specific target it’s permissible to target it.
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You make an accusation, but do not accompany it with credible citations

Dismissed!
 
lwf said:
How does Ukraine benefit by targeting its own civilians?
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Because the claims of Russian war crimes keep the money and weapons prolonging the war flowing into Kiev.

It’s a psyop where Ukraine, though the western NGO network and ukranian diaspora (another reason why immigration should be tightly restricted, it’s insane we have born Ukes like Vindman in America who are allowed to impact our foreign policy in a way that doesn’t benefit America as a whole) are demanding western involvement in a conflict that really doesn’t involve anyone outside of the Ukraine
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Because the claims of Russian war crimes keep the money and weapons prolonging the war flowing into Kiev.

It’s a psyop where Ukraine, though the western NGO network and ukranian diaspora (another reason why immigration should be tightly restricted, it’s insane we have born Ukes like Vindman in America who are allowed to impact our foreign policy in a way that doesn’t benefit America as a whole) are demanding western involvement in a conflict that really doesn’t involve anyone outside of the Ukraine
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With all due respect, that is preposterous. Ukrainian soldiers would never target their fleeing families in some sort of twisted "psyops campaign." The effect is to terrorize civilians and puts pressure on Zelenskyy to surrender to save their lives. Why would Zelenskyy create more pressure on his soldiers to surrender to Russia? That makes no sense. It is the Russians who are shelling humanitarian corridors in order to terrorize Ukraine into submission. Only Russia benefits from the deaths of Ukrainian civilians. Ukraine does not.
 
lwf said:
How does Ukraine benefit by targeting its own civilians?
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Depends. Some civilians are second class civilians, whose language is Russian as opposed to Ukrainian, and who prefer closer relationships with Russia as opposed to EU. The Azov battalion doesn't care for these black legs at all.
 
Juin said:
Depends. Some civilians are second class civilians, whose language is Russian as opposed to Ukrainian, and who prefer closer relationships with Russia as opposed to EU. The Azov battalion doesn't care for these black legs at all.
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That would be counter-productive. The more civilians that are killed, the greater the pressure to surrender. This makes no tactical sense.

Russia is deliberately targeting civilians with long range shelling as a terror tactic to pressure Zelenskyy to surrender and save the lives of Russian soldiers, who by all accounts have lost enough men (10%) to have their combat effectiveness diminished and who have lost enough generals (20%) to have their command impaired.
 
lwf said:
With all due respect, that is preposterous. Ukrainian soldiers would never target their fleeing families in some sort of twisted "psyops campaign.
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You would be horrified at what soldiers would do if given orders, in most cases without question at all, and to the extent some have questions they will still follow them on the belief their superiors have a reason for giving them. Google operation Northwoods, where the CIA and American military drew up plans to commit actual terrorist attacks on Cuban refugees on American soil which would be pinned on the Cuban government and used as war justification.

In addition you are ignoring that soldiers come in several varieties, apolitical Ukrainian conscripts might be less willing to do what politically motivated and ideologically motivated actors, like say ultra nationalist extreme units like Azov are willing to do.


lwf said:
" The effect is to terrorize civilians and puts pressure on Zelenskyy to surrender to save their lives.
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Except Zelensky will not do it and is being funded and armed by outside actors. So Russia has to assume the Ukrainian army will keep fighting as long as it’s not hopeless. And if there’s a hope of European or American intervention then committing civilian atrocities doesn’t benefit Russia.
lwf said:
Why would Zelenskyy create more pressure on his soldiers to surrender to Russia? That makes no sense. It is the Russians who are shelling humanitarian corridors in order to terrorize Ukraine into submission. Only Russia benefits from the deaths of Ukrainian civilians. Ukraine does not.
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Russia is the one establishing the humanitarian corridors in the first place. The Russians want to encourage civilians to flee because it reduces chance of civilian deaths and it encourages desertion by defending troops.

Russia doesn’t need to have the corridors at all, much less shell them. In fact Russia could more effectively secure surrenders just by blockading the cities altogether. No heat, no fuel, no internet, no power, no food. Nothing allowed in the area. That would kill many more civilians with far less condemnation than artillery on civilians leaving. Russia has no incentive. Only Ukraine.
 
lwf said:
That would be counter-productive. The more civilians that are killed, the greater the pressure to surrender. This makes no tactical sense.
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Not true. In fact indiscriminate attacks on civilians tend to harden resolve and in this war might draw military support from uninvolved parties.

Just look at the Germans, the war was lost after the Soviet Bargration offensive, and they fought another year after being subject to round the clock terror bombings from the allies. The Germans didn’t surrender until Hitler and Goebbels shot themselves and Dönitz took over.

If Hitler had listened to his advisors and retreated his forces from Berlin to form a defensive line to the west the Germans could’ve fought on another 3-4 months. Their surrender came only from Hitler’s suicide.

lwf said:
Russia is deliberately targeting civilians with long range shelling as a terror tactic to pressure Zelenskyy to surrender and save the lives of Russian soldiers, who by all accounts have lost enough men (10%) to have their combat effectiveness diminished and who have lost enough generals (20%) to have their command impaired.
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They have not lost 20% of their generals, and I doubt 10 percent of their men either. This is Uke propaganda cope.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Forget it, you guys are arguing with a Russian apologist. He is literally excusing war crimes.
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The only ones actually purposefully committing war crimes are Ukranians.
 
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