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Ukraine War Thread

JANFU

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JANFU

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As more logistic centers, rail, road, bridge become unusable, very difficult to maintain supplies for Russian troops on the other side of the Dnipro
 

Rogue Valley

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The President and First Lady both hail from Kryvyi Rih (Curved Cape), an industrial city of 647,000 at the confluence of the Saksahan and Inhulets rivers.



 

justoneman

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It's not necessary for Ukraine to win "some big battle" in order to win the war. It would be nice, but it's not necessary. Vietnam is a good example of an inferior army losing repeatedly to a superior army, yet ultimately winning the war.

And with the Russians deliberately targeting civilians with missile strikes, murdering civilians (Bucha), murdering POWs (Olenivka), and also castrating POWs we are now in a situation where NATO countries are now more motivated than ever to support the Ukrainians.
North Vietnam beat South Vietnam. South Vietnam was not superior. One part beat another part in it's civil war. Both sides had backers in the war. In Ukraine there are russian Ukrainians fighting Ukrainian Ukrainians. Both sides have backers. What is the big difference is that Russia intends to keep territory that borders it's country. The US does not border Vietnam and was not taking territory.
 

W_Heisenberg

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North Vietnam beat South Vietnam. South Vietnam was not superior. One part beat another part in it's civil war. Both sides had backers in the war.

Let's just completely ignore U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Geesh. How do I respond to this? There is too much stupid in these two sentences. It's like trying to pick up jell-o with your bare hands.

In Ukraine there are russian Ukrainians fighting Ukrainian Ukrainians. Both sides have backers. What is the big difference is that Russia intends to keep territory that borders it's country. The US does not border Vietnam and was not taking territory.

Don't you think Ukraine wants to keep its territory just as much as Russia wants to take it?

Do you understand that NATO countries Poland, Slovakia, and Romania border Ukraine and are currently being used to ship weapons and equipment into Ukraine, and Ukrainian food products out of Ukraine?
 
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justoneman

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Let's just completely ignore U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Geesh. How do I respond to this? There is too much stupid in these two sentences. It's like trying to pick up jell-o with your bare hands.
Ironically in your analogy, the side that the US backed in Vietnam lost to the side the USSR backed. This happened because US citizens grew tired of US involvment, causing the withdrawal of US support.
 

maxparrish

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Ironically in your analogy, the side that the US backed in Vietnam lost to the side the USSR backed. This happened because US citizens grew tired of US involvment, causing the withdrawal of US support.

Ummmm...I think he was suggesting that in this particular situation, Russia is much like the US in fighting a war where the locals (VC and NVA) don't grow so tired because it is their homeland, and their suppliers aren't losing troops.

In other words, it is possible the Ukrainian people and its suppliers can win by simply waiting for the Russian public to tire of the war.

It's a very costly strategy, and I think probably needlessly bloody, but it is at least possible.
 

JANFU

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justoneman

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Ummmm...I think he was suggesting that in this particular situation, Russia is much like the US in fighting a war where the locals (VC and NVA) don't grow so tired because it is their homeland, and their suppliers aren't losing troops.

In other words, it is possible the Ukrainian people and its suppliers can win by simply waiting for the Russian public to tire of the war.

It's a very costly strategy, and I think probably needlessly bloody, but it is at least possible.
Russia will reach the Dnieper river, put up a secured border and call everthing east of the river, Russia. This is not going to take that long. This is not like an endless war in a country on the opposite side of the world, as Vietnam was for the US. Frankly, it was a poor analogy.
 

NewfieMom

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Ironically in your analogy, the side that the US backed in Vietnam lost to the side the USSR backed. This happened because US citizens grew tired of US involvment, causing the withdrawal of US support.
Please, please listen to @W_Heisenberg and just drop this topic. I really do not want to give you a lesson on South Vietnam; you are not a quick enough learner.
 

Surrealistik

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Please, please listen to @W_Heisenberg and just drop this topic. I really do not want to give you a lesson on South Vietnam; you are not a quick enough learner.
To be honest, I don't think he's interested in learning so much as carrying water for Putin and Russia by whatever disingenuous means necessary.
 

W_Heisenberg

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Ironically in your analogy, the side that the US backed in Vietnam lost to the side the USSR backed. This happened because US citizens grew tired of US involvment, causing the withdrawal of US support.

There is a real risk of this happening.

There is also a real risk that Russians will grow tired of the war in Ukraine just like citizens of the Soviet Republicans did when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Afghanistan also happened to border the Soviet Union just like Ukraine borders Russia now. No NATO countries bordered Afghanistan though. But NATO countries border Ukraine now. So, if we use your logic, the Russians are ****ed.
 

justoneman

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There is a real risk of this happening.

There is also a real risk that Russians will grow tired of the war in Ukraine just like citizens of the Soviet Republicans did when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Afghanistan also happened to border the Soviet Union just like Ukraine borders Russia now.
There were not millions of ethnic Russians fighting in a civil war with afghans, however. It's another poor analogy.
 

W_Heisenberg

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There were not millions of ethnic Russians fighting in a civil war with afghans, however. It's another poor analogy.

It's true that some ethnic Russians who are Ukrainian citizens - rebelling against the Ukrainian government -- are fighting for the Russian government. It's also true that ethnic Russians -- before this war -- represented approximately 17% of the Ukrainian population and were heavily concentrated in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, which Russia now occupies. So the impact of Russian ethnicity only goes so far. The further West that Russia ventures, the less tenable your ethnic argument is.
 

Yakshi

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Please, please listen to @W_Heisenberg and just drop this topic. I really do not want to give you a lesson on South Vietnam; you are not a quick enough learner.

His goal isn't to learn anything.

More specifically, his goal is to learn absolutely nothing.

It is why in his complaints about the lies of western propaganda, he ended up hitching his wagon to the nearest proven fraud and long-time pro-Putin commentator, Alexander Mercouris.

To give you some sense of his mindless devotion to Mercouris, he has never in his entire history on the forum posted a single fact stated by Mercouris.

And then of course, there is the rest of the western media, most of which he dismisses nonsensically as propaganda.

He's the easiest scroll-by on this site. Sometimes I make the mistake of reading his posts, but I'm getting better.

His posts are remarkably consistent in their stupidity.

Real trolls get paid to make posts like that.
 

Schrott

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His goal isn't to learn anything.

More specifically, his goal is to learn absolutely nothing.

It is why in his complaints about the lies of western propaganda, he ended up hitching his wagon to the nearest proven fraud and long-time pro-Putin commentator, Alexander Mercouris.

To give you some sense of his mindless devotion to Mercouris, he has never in his entire history on the forum posted a single fact stated by Mercouris.

And then of course, there is the rest of the western media, most of which he dismisses nonsensically as propaganda.

He's the easiest scroll-by on this site. Sometimes I make the mistake of reading his posts, but I'm getting better.

His posts are remarkably consistent in their stupidity.

Real trolls get paid to make posts like that.
The best thing you can do, put them on your ignore list.
Than you do not feed them.
 
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