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Ukraine Vows to Send Warships Back to Azov

Rogue Valley

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https://themoscowtimes.com/news/ukraine-to-send-warships-back-to-azov-despite-russian-capture-63913"]Ukraine Vows to Send Warships Back to Azov Despite Russian Capture

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Ukraine patrol craft in Odessa harbor.

12/20/18
Ukraine will send warships back to its Azov Sea ports again, a security official said on Wednesday, despite Russia's seizure of three navy vessels and their crew in the area last month. The dispute deepened when Moscow last month seized two small Ukrainian gunboats and one tugboat — with a combined crew of 24 — off Crimea, accusing them of illegally entering Russian waters as they headed from the Black Sea via the Kerch Strait. The United States and European Union have demanded the sailors' release, and President Donald Trump canceled talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin in protest. "Russia's aggression will not stop our plans to create a naval group in the Sea of Azov," Oleksandr Turchynov, secretary of the Ukrainian government's national security and defense council, said in an interview with the local BBC branch. "If we stop and retreat, Russia will actually fulfil its task of capturing the Sea of Azov, present the world with self-determined new sea borders in the Black Sea, de facto legalizing the occupation of Crimea," BBC News Ukraine quoted him as saying. Turchynov said Kiev would invite representatives of the transatlantic military alliance NATO and Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) on board next time to prove Ukraine was not violating any regulations. He did not say when ships might next attempt to pass, although he added it should not be long. Responding to the comments, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said Ukraine's intention to send warships back through the Kerch Strait was a "provocation."

Will Moscow kidnap NATO and OSCE monitors on a Ukrainian vessel sailing the international waters of the Black Sea or in the jointly managed Sea of Azov? Stay tuned.

Related: Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on cooperation in the use of the Sea of Azov and the Strait of Kerch
 
I very much doubt that OSCE or NATO reps would play ball with Ukraine and sail on those ships to legitimise what would obviously be a deliberate provocation.

So RV's excitement may be badly mis-placed.

Russia will defend its territorial waters within the 10nm zone, irrespective of who is sailing on Kiev's armada.
 
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I very much doubt that OSCE or NATO reps would play ball with Ukraine and sail on those ships to legitimise what would obviously be a deliberate provocation.

So RV's excitement may be badly mis-placed.

Russia will defend its territorial waters within the 10nm zone, irrespective of who is sailing on Kiev's armada.
So you are basically saying that Russia would attack Ukrainian vessels even if OSCE and/or NATO reps were aboard and Russia knew this!

Thanks for clarifying.
 
So you are basically saying that Russia would attack Ukrainian vessels even if OSCE and/or NATO reps were aboard and Russia knew this!

Thanks for clarifying.

If they violated "Russian" territory why would they not? It is common practice to seize vessels that are violating a countries territory.
 
If they violated "Russian" territory why would they not? It is common practice to seize vessels that are violating a countries territory.
The Sea of Azov is not exclusively Russian territory, nor are the Straits of Kerch.

Russia having illegally annexed the land on their Western side does not make them so, at least not by understanding of the international community.
 
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/ukraine-to-send-warships-back-to-azov-despite-russian-capture-63913"]Ukraine Vows to Send Warships Back to Azov Despite Russian Capture

5373454_-650x409.jpg

Ukraine patrol craft in Odessa harbor.



Will Moscow kidnap NATO and OSCE monitors on a Ukrainian vessel sailing the international waters of the Black Sea or in the jointly managed Sea of Azov? Stay tuned.

Related: Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on cooperation in the use of the Sea of Azov and the Strait of Kerch

putler pooped his pants for sure

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"USA and our allies need to rapidly counter "Russia"’s military aggression in the Kerch Strait with strong and resolute action



WASHINGTON — U.S. Senators Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), and 39 of their colleagues introduced a resolution calling for a prompt multinational freedom of navigation operation in the Black Sea and the cancellation of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline in response to Russia’s recent aggressive actions in the Kerch Strait and the Sea of Azov.

“The United States and our allies need to rapidly counter Russia’s military aggression in the Kerch Strait with strong and resolute action,” Sen. Johnson said. “Assembling a multinational freedom of navigation operation in the Black Sea to help ensure safe passage into the Sea of Azov, combined with cancellation of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline is exactly the kind of response Putin needs to see.”

“The recent provocative military actions from Russia and revelations about its extensive cyber disinformation campaigns in the U.S. are warnings to the rest of the world that Vladimir Putin has no intention of stopping his aggressive campaign against Western democracies or Ukraine,” said Sen. Durbin. “The world must work together to stop this Russian assault on democracy and Ukraine sovereignty. I am proud to support this resolution and urge my colleagues to reaffirm this message of deterring further aggression from the Russian Federation.”

“Ukraine is the front line of Vladimir Putin’s struggle against the free world and, last month, Russia’s attack on Ukrainian ships near the Kerch Strait marked a dangerous escalation of that conflict. We have to respond, and respond with strength. Weakness will only provoke further aggression. The United States must enhance our lethal aid to Ukraine, especially to enhance its maritime capabilities. And working together with our European allies, we should conduct freedom of navigation operations in the Black Sea to deter further bullying. Ukraine has never asked Americans or Europeans to do their fighting for them. They have asked only that we give them the tools they need to defend themselves and their country. Ukrainians need and deserve our help. This resolution is the right step,” said Sen. Inhofe.

Full text of the resolution can be found here.

Sen. Johnson is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Subcommittee on Europe and Regional Security Cooperation and Sen. Durbin is Senate Minority Whip. Joining Sens. Johnson and Durbin in cosponsoring the resolution were Sen. James Inhofe (R-Ok.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee; Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Europe and Regional Security Cooperation; and Sens. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), Ben Cardin (D-Md.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Cory Gardner (R-Colo.), Christopher Coons (D-Del.), James Risch (R-Idaho), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-Miss.), Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Ben Sasse (R-Neb.), Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.), John Boozman (R-Ark.), John Hoeven (R-N.D.), Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), Doug Jones (D-Ala.), Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), Mike Rounds (R-S.D.), Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.), Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.), Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), Gary Peters (D-Mich.), Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.), Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), Roger Wicker (R-Miss.), John Cornyn (R-Texas), John Thune (R-S.D.), Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Mike Crapo (R-Idaho), Rob Portman (R-Ohio), Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), and Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.)."
 
So you are basically saying that Russia would attack Ukrainian vessels even if OSCE and/or NATO reps were aboard and Russia knew this!

Thanks for clarifying.


You know very well that neither NATO nor OSCE are going to let representatives go on board Ukrainian warships to be used a human shields for a provocation directed by the neo-nazi infiltrated intelligence services of a non NATO member against a global nuclear power. That's the fantasy of RV and Litwin, but it's not happening.

The area is complicated and disputed, but Russia does have undisputed territorial waters which even Bellingcat admitted Kiev violated last month.

Yes, Russia will defend all its territorial waters as is normal.
 
You know very well that neither NATO nor OSCE are going to .....................~
nice deflection from that fact that you have confirmed Russia's readiness to attack Ukrainian vessels, even if NATO and/or OSCE representatives were aboard.

I didn't ask you if they would be.:roll:
 
nice deflection from that fact that you have confirmed Russia's readiness to attack Ukrainian vessels, even if NATO and/or OSCE representatives were aboard.

I didn't ask you if they would be.:roll:


Yes, because OSCE and NATO representatives do not obviate the principles of territorial waters under international law.


As I said though, neither are stupid enough to make themselves human shields on a neo-nazi war armada.
 
Yes, because OSCE and NATO representatives do not obviate the principles of territorial waters under international law...................~
YOU, of all people, invoking international law here is truly a joke.
 
YOU, of all people, invoking international law here is truly a joke.

Russia truly believes, looking at the egregious violations of international law committed by the US over the last 25 years, that it is the guardian of what is left of the world order.

But since the West is prepared to rip it up on occasions when it suits (Libya, Iraq, Syria, Serbia etc), then Russia will do the same. So will China in due course. You reap what you sowed in those heady 1990s when the West thought it had ended history in a triumph of universalism.
 
Russia truly believes, looking at the egregious violations of international law committed by the US over the last 25 years, that it is the guardian of what is left of the world order......................~
When you want to start a religion, you need more followers. That would still not make you the holder of any truth but it would help.
 
When you want to start a religion, you need more followers. That would still not make you the holder of any truth but it would help.


Russia's allies all around the world know very well who is the world's rogue state.
 
The Black Sea is owned by no one.

The Sea of Azov and Strait of Kerch are mutually Ukraine and Russia waters via bilateral treaty (2003).

Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on cooperation in the use of the Sea of Azov and the Strait of Kerch

I would think that they should have thought about that and got Crimea and Donbass and Lugansk on board the coup d'etat before acting precipitiously and gummin' up the worrks, eh? Bluster and bullcrap by Ukraine will have about the same effect as your bluster and bullcrap on this forum. The recent provocation moved Poroshenko up in the polls from 5th to 2nd. If he could drop a few bombs, he might be able to move to first, but bombs bring blowback and the dead bodies don't win elections.
/
 
Got a list?

I do....

Belarus
Armenia
Kazakhstan
North Korea
South Africa
Cuba
Syria
Venezuela
Bolivia
Iran
Myanmar
Nicaragua
Serbia
Uzbekistan
Sudan
Zimbabwe

Quite impressive no?
 
I would think that they should have thought about that and got Crimea and Donbass and Lugansk on board the coup d'etat before acting precipitiously and gummin' up the worrks, eh? Bluster and bullcrap by Ukraine will have about the same effect as your bluster and bullcrap on this forum. The recent provocation moved Poroshenko up in the polls from 5th to 2nd. If he could drop a few bombs, he might be able to move to first, but bombs bring blowback and the dead bodies don't win elections.
/

Blah blah RT blah blah.
 
I do....

Belarus
Armenia
Kazakhstan
North Korea
South Africa
Cuba
Syria
Venezuela
Bolivia
Iran
Myanmar
Nicaragua
Serbia
Uzbekistan
Sudan
Zimbabwe

Quite impressive no?
Conceivably the major religion in the world.:lamo
 
Conceivably the major religion in the world.:lamo


I would say that, given the pressure exerted by the US on weak states to support its Ukro-nazi sponsored resolution, the 90 states which resisted tells us quite a lot.


Remember, the US doesn't have allies, it just has states which can't say 'no' to it.

You herald from some of the most sycophantic vassal states in the world.
 
I would say that, given the pressure exerted by the US on weak states to support its Ukro-nazi sponsored resolution, the 90 states which resisted tells us quite a lot.


Remember, the US doesn't have allies, it just has states which can't say 'no' to it.

You herald from some of the most sycophantic vassal states in the world.

That was not true till just recently, as the rest of the world has had a front row seat to how badly America has rotted out.....up till 9/11 at least we had allies.
 
That was not true till just recently, as the rest of the world has had a front row seat to how badly America has rotted out.....up till 9/11 at least we had allies.

Yes, that's a fair comment.


I think the abysmal foreign policy conduct of the last 20 years have turned most of the world (excepting the Old World) against the US. But even Europe is now a reluctant slave, apart from London.
 
Yes, that's a fair comment.


I think the abysmal foreign policy conduct of the last 20 years have turned most of the world (excepting the Old World) against the US. But even Europe is now a reluctant slave, apart from London.

It is about a lot more than that and you know it....It is about the debacle in Iraq and the corruption leading to and following the Great Recession and it is watching the US lead global institutions clearly barely working and it was watching how easy a time Trump had running over all of the pro's and it was noticing that Congress is full of second and third rate people who spend a huge chunk of their time with their hand out looking for money and servicing the accounts as they barely get any work done and it was watching the entire elite class decide that sabotaging America's President is a great idea.....

America now is nothing like what the people around the world thought that America was even a few years ago..... and so much of that has to do with Trump and the deeply destructive and idiotic way the so-called best and the brightest in America have reacted to Trump.

OH, let's also mention that it is now clear that both the University and journalism in America are deeply broken, and there is no way to have a decent democracy when that happens...so America is ****ed.

Oh, and our super dooper expensive military that cant even manage to navigate ships anymore....that gets a mention.

Rot and more rot on top of rot as far as the eye can see.

Almost no one had any idea.

Now everyone knows.
 
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I would say that, given the pressure exerted by the US on weak states to support its Ukro-nazi sponsored resolution, the 90 states which resisted tells us quite a lot.


Remember, the US doesn't have allies, it just has states which can't say 'no' to it.

You herald from some of the most sycophantic vassal states in the world.
Sounds to me (to stay with the religion analogy) as though you're taking the JW road of declaring your belief to be the only relevant, no matter how pitiful in number and quality your followers.
 
Sounds to me (to stay with the religion analogy) as though you're taking the JW road of declaring your belief to be the only relevant, no matter how pitiful in number and quality your followers.

btw ... the JW religion is banned in Putin's Russia. Labeled "extremist".
 
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