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Ukraine Says Russia Ignoring Calls For Dialogue Amid Rising Tensions

OrphanSlug said:
I'll be right back, let me alert CNN for you.
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You don't have to. I trust CNN to come up with the truth on their own. Also MSNBC and "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times". And maybe "The Atlantic" and "The Nation".
 
NewfieMom said:
You don't have to. I trust CNN to come up with the truth on their own. Also MSNBC and "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times". And maybe "The Atlantic" and "The Nation".
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pointmissed.jpg
 
NewfieMom said:
Maybe you should write more clearly. :)
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Since you decided to take the baton from Roadvirus, tell us all about how these situations are that simple.

Go on, we'll wait.
 
Roadvirus said:
Why should Russia talk ceasefire when Putin finds it more fun to be a bully?

Russia is a rogue nation just like China. If one had to choose which was worse, that would be a serious brain buster. It's impossible to tell them apart.
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After World War II, the United States attacked other countries dozens of times. About 700 US military bases are scattered around the world... You don't know that?
Do you have lessons in hypocrisy in schools, or is it an innate trait?
 
NewfieMom said:
Serving in the German Army, no matter how despicable its cause, is not the same thing as being recruited from the dregs of humanity to work in a death camp.
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If you think the SS Divisions murdered no Jews, you are seriously mistaken. In addition, Einsatzgruppen (SS/SA/Gestapo/Orpo) units followed behind the SS/Wehrmacht divisions and worked closely with the Commanders.

You should also educate yourself a bit on who was trained at Trawniki, Poland ... the SS school for non-German death camp guards.
 
Ringo Stalin said:
After World War II, the United States attacked other countries dozens of times. About 700 US military bases are scattered around the world... You don't know that?
Do you have lessons in hypocrisy in schools, or is it an innate trait?
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How big a bully the United States has been is not the topic.
 
NewfieMom said:
How big a bully the United States has been is not the topic.
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This is a topic. Fascist Ukraine would not behave as if it had any significance in the world, if it were not a lackey-country, hoping for support from the United States.
Here it is, topic - USA, world gendarme, puts forward some ridiculous claims to Russia. You can immediately feel, that the progressive democrat is in the White House... The fact that he's senile, just the cherry on the cake. And the scoundrels in Kiev are moving tanks to the borders of the Donbass and killing children and the elderly.
 
Rogue Valley said:
If you think the SS Divisions murdered no Jews, you are seriously mistaken. In addition, Einsatzgruppen (SS/SA/Gestapo/Orpo) units followed behind the SS/Wehrmacht divisions and worked closely with the Commanders.

You should also educate yourself a bit on who was trained at Trawniki, Poland ... the SS school for non-German death camp guards.
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I never said that SS divisions murdered no Jews. I am not an expert on military history and I do not know what divisions were operating where. (I also did not hear you say that all the foreigners who volunteered for the Wehrmacht were assigned to the Einsatzgruppen. Foreign volunteers is what kicked off this discussion.) Most of the killing of Jews was done in the extermination camps once Germany had conquered territory in the East. That I do know.

I would be glad to read more about the training of death camp guards since you provided a handy link, but I do not think I really need that information to understand the history I need to understand in order to know what trends made the world order what it was or make it is what it is today.
 
NewfieMom said:
I never said that SS divisions murdered no Jews. I am not an expert on military history and I do not know what divisions were operating where. (I also did not hear you say that all the foreigners who volunteered for the Wehrmacht were assigned to the Einsatzgruppen. Foreign volunteers is what kicked off this discussion.) Most of the killing of Jews was done in the extermination camps once Germany had conquered territory in the East. That I do know.

I would be glad to read more about the training of death camp guards since you provided a handy link, but I do not think I really need that information to understand the history I need to understand in order to know what trends made the world order what it was or make it is what it is today.
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To imply - as some here do - that only Ukrainians assisted the Nazis during the Holocaust is gross historical revisionism.

That is not even mentioning sympathetic governments in locations such as Vichy France, Romania, and Hungary.
 
Rogue Valley said:
If you think the SS Divisions murdered no Jews, you are seriously mistaken. In addition, Einsatzgruppen (SS/SA/Gestapo/Orpo) units followed behind the SS/Wehrmacht divisions and worked closely with the Commanders.

You should also educate yourself a bit on who was trained at Trawniki, Poland ... the SS school for non-German death camp guards.
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It puzzles me what, exactly, you thought would be so educational about this page. What is new about Eastern Europeans being anti-semites and Germans being Nazis who pursued the Final Solution? Did you think that having all the highly imaginative names that the Nazis gave their disgusting little groups would truly deepen my understanding of the death they brought to the Jews of Europe?
 
Rogue Valley said:
To imply - as some here do - that only Ukrainians assisted the Nazis during the Holocaust is gross historical revisionism.

That is not even mentioning sympathetic governments in locations such as Vichy France, Romania, and Hungary.
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Too bad. We were discussing Ukraine. My husband is an Italian Jew. His family lived out the war in German occupied northern France. We have a photo of his sister (age 5) with a friend in the arms of two German soldiers in full Nazi regalia. They thought she was a little French girl. If we were talking about France then, I would have mentioned that.
 
NewfieMom said:
Too bad. We were discussing Ukraine. My husband is an Italian Jew. His family lived out the war in German occupied northern France. We have a photo of his sister (age 5) with a friend in the arms of two German soldiers in full Nazi regalia. They thought she was a little French girl. If we were talking about France then, I would have mentioned that.
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To be quite candid, this thread, my OP thread, is about the current Russian military buildup on the border of Ukraine.

Kremlin trolls here endeavor to hijack/divert such threads with whataboutisms.

If you wish to discuss the Holocaust, by all means create a thread to that end and I'll be there.
 
Rogue Valley said:
To be quite candid, this thread, my OP thread, is about the current Russian military buildup on the border of Ukraine.

Kremlin trolls here endeavor to hijack/divert such threads with whataboutisms.

If you wish to discuss the Holocaust, by all means create a thread to that end and I'll be there.
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I have no desire to discuss the Holocaust (right now, I mean). Another poster called Ukrainians Nazis. I refuted it. That is how this started.
 
NewfieMom said:
It is factually incorrect.
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What exactly is wrong? The fact that in Ukraine, nazi stormtroopers, in the service of the Ukrainian Gestapo, do anything on the streets of the country, even at the office of the president? In Ukraine, Nazi laws are not adopted (the law prohibiting the use of the majority language-Russian) ? That nazi symbols periodically appear in photos and videos of the Ukrainian army? I could go on, but why..
 
Here is an excerpt from an article which describes my country's position on the matter.

"On Location: April 15, 2021

In separate meetings with Ukraine’s foreign minister, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg expressed serious concern about Russia deploying the largest concentration of troops near the Ukraine border since 2014.

Blinken accused Russia of taking 'very provocative' actions that have alarmed Ukraine and the West. Stoltenberg, meanwhile, called the Russian movements 'unjustified, unexplained and deeply concerning.' Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Kyiv welcomed the support and urged Western countries to make clear to Moscow that it would pay a price for its 'aggression.'

The comments came amid a surge of cease-fire violations in eastern Ukraine, where Russia-baсked separatists and Ukrainian forces have been locked in a conflict since Moscow’s 2014 annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula. NATO is holding a special meeting Tuesday on Ukraine.

'The U.S. stands firmly behind the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of Ukraine,' Blinken told Kuleba at the start of their meeting at the residence of the U.S. ambassador to Belgium, a post once held by Blinken's uncle. 'That’s particularly important at a time when were seeing, unfortunately, Russia take very provocative actions when it comes to Ukraine.'”

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...-russia-troop-buildup-close-ukraine-77039796#
 
Ringo Stalin said:
From an interview with Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov:
What are the кussians doing near the borders of Ukraine?
- We live there. But what is the United States doing in Ukraine, thousands of miles from its territory?
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LOL That's a good one. They are massing troops on the Ukraine border because they live there. When it was part of the USSR they put all the most dangerous nuclear installations there including Chernobyl and ICBM's so that Russians would not be the victims when something went wrong. They treated them like cattle. No wonder the Ukrainians hate them.
 
Roadvirus said:
Why should Russia talk ceasefire when Putin finds it more fun to be a bully?

Russia is a rogue nation just like China. If one had to choose which was worse, that would be a serious brain buster. It's impossible to tell them apart.
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The difference is huge. Russia has nothing to offer the world but natural resources and those not digging them up are not needed and live in poverty until they die. While China is the "Amazon" of the world with the fastest growing middle class ever. That middle class buys more cars from GM than we do too. Russia wants the U.S. to fail while China depends on trade with us for their economy. Huge difference. Putin is by far the most threat to world peace. Russia has one more product they want to sell...mercenary armies.
 
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