Ukraine Says Russia Ignoring Calls For Dialogue Amid Rising Tensions

[Rogue Valley]

Ukraine Says Russia Ignoring Calls For Dialogue Amid Rising Tensions

Ukraine says it has requested talks with Russia to discuss escalating tensions in eastern Ukraine but has yet to receive an answer, prompting warnings from the West, including calls by Washington for Moscow to explain its actions at an upcoming security meeting.

www.rferl.org

4/12/21
Ukraine says it has requested talks with Russia to discuss escalating tensions in eastern Ukraine but has yet to receive an answer, prompting warnings from the West, including calls by Washington for Moscow to explain its actions at an upcoming security meeting. Kyiv and the West blame Russia-backed separatists holding parts of Ukraine’s eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk for a recent spike in hostilities, while Moscow has pointed the finger at Kyiv. A recent accumulation of photographs, video, and other data also suggested major movements of Russian armed units toward or near Ukraine's borders and into the Crimean Peninsula, annexed by Moscow in 2014, fueling concerns that Russia is preparing to send forces into Ukraine and giving rise to many Western countries demanding Russia explain itself. In a statement on April 12, Ukraine's Foreign Ministry said that in accordance with an agreement with Moscow and international partners, the Russian side was formally requested to clarify the "significant increase" in the military presence of Russian troops along the border with Ukraine and in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine in recent days.

Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskiy's spokeswoman, Yulia Mendel, added on April 12 that the president's office "of course" made a request to speak directly with Russian President Vladimir Putin, but that "we have not received an answer yet and we very much hope that this is not a refusal of dialogue." In Moscow, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said he was "not aware of any [such] requests made lately," according to Russian news agencies. Some analysts have suggested that Russia's recent actions may be meant to test the new administration of U.S. President Joe Biden and its commitment to Ukraine. The Kremlin had earlier warned that Moscow "will not remain indifferent" to the fate of Russian speakers who live in eastern Ukraine. Zelenskiy last week said 26 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed since the start of the year, compared with 50 in all of 2020, when fighting in the conflict subsided as a new cease-fire deal came into force in July. Separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk regions have said more than 20 of their fighters had been killed so far in 2021.

The Kremlin is again dusting off its Ukraine invasion excuse from 2014 .... Russian speakers are discriminated against in eastern Ukraine. As someone who has lived in Ukraine and Crimea, I can state quite unequivocally that this is poppycock. By law, Russian is a protected language everywhere in Ukraine. Everyone in Ukraine speaks Russian as either a first or a second language. Ukraine is a sovereign state and Ukrainian is the official national language. Russian is a protected language. If any language in an oblast (state) is spoken by 10% of the population of that oblast, then that language is a protected language in that oblast. Hungarian is a protected language in Zakarpattia Oblast. Polish and Lithuanian are protected languages in Lviv Oblast. Belarussian is a protected language in Rivne Oblast etc. By law, the official national language is Ukrainian. All official documents must be in Ukrainian, and all signage must be in Ukrainian. In some major cities such as Odesa and Kharkiv, the majority language is Russian yet all signs are in Ukrainian. Most Ukrainians can understand both languages. As was the case in 2014, Moscow is today again attempting to peddle disinformation regarding language in Ukraine.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

From an interview with Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov:
What are the кussians doing near the borders of Ukraine?
- We live there. But what is the United States doing in Ukraine, thousands of miles from its territory?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Ukraine Says Russia Ignoring Calls For Dialogue Amid Rising Tensions

Ukraine says it has requested talks with Russia to discuss escalating tensions in eastern Ukraine but has yet to receive an answer, prompting warnings from the West, including calls by Washington for Moscow to explain its actions at an upcoming security meeting.

www.rferl.org

The Kremlin is again dusting off its Ukraine invasion excuse from 2014 .... Russian speakers are discriminated against in eastern Ukraine. As someone who has lived in Ukraine and Crimea, I can state quite unequivocally that this is poppycock. By law, Russian is a protected language everywhere in Ukraine. Everyone in Ukraine speaks Russian as either a first or a second language. Ukraine is a sovereign state and Ukrainian is the official national language. Russian is a protected language. If any language in an oblast (state) is spoken by 10% of the population of that oblast, then that language is a protected language in that oblast. Hungarian is a protected language in Zakarpattia Oblast. Polish and Lithuanian are protected languages in Lviv Oblast. Belarussian is a protected language in Rivne Oblast etc. By law, the official national language is Ukrainian. All official documents must be in Ukrainian, and all signage must be in Ukrainian. In some major cities such as Odesa and Kharkiv, the majority language is Russian yet all signs are in Ukrainian. Most Ukrainians can understand both languages. As was the case in 2014, Moscow is today again attempting to peddle disinformation regarding language in Ukraine.

If you lived in Crimea then you know it is rightfully Russia. Maybe if your government wants to deescalate tensions then they can start with acknowledging that.

 

[NewfieMom]

@Rogue Valley,

If you are willing, I would like to know more about how you came to live in Ukraine and Crimea and what you did there. I would also like to know about the languages you speak. I realize that you may not want to share some of this on a public forum, but it might give me more insight into your political positions and how you came to form them. My own position is based primarily on Ukraine having been decided by an international body to include Crimea and Russia having taken it away by force. I have no understanding about which languages are protected in Ukraine. I realize that language can be a very hot topic (see the Basque language or French Canada) and I appreciate your efforts to explain the nuances of the problems here.

Frankly, to me, Ukrainian and Russian are similar. Both are Slavic and, I believe, Ukrainian can even be written in the Cyrillic alphabet. I think the problem between the two countries is political, not linguistic. The Czechs and the Slovaks always got along although they had slightly different languages because one had never colonized the other.

 

[NewfieMom]

If you lived in Crimea then you know it is rightfully Russia. Maybe if your government wants to deescalate tensions then they can start with acknowledging that.

Support your position; do not just state it as fact. You are not a universally recognized expert on this topic, nor is there one.

 

[Rogue Valley]

@Rogue Valley,

If you are willing, I would like to know more about how you came to live in Ukraine and Crimea and what you did there. I would also like to know about the languages you speak. I realize that you may not want to share some of this on a public forum, but it might give me more insight into your political positions and how you came to form them. My own position is based primarily on Ukraine having been decided by an international body to include Crimea and Russia having taken it away by force. I have no understanding about which languages are protected in Ukraine. I realize that language can be a very hot topic (see the Basque language or French Canada) and I appreciate your efforts to explain the nuances of the problems here.

I did consulting work in Ukraine. I lived in Lviv, Kyiv, Odesa, Kharkiv, and Yalta. I can speak (to a degree) Ukrainian and Shurzhik (which is a mix of Ukrainian and Russian). I could also always hire a "guide" that was an expert in the local area and dialect. I also visited Russia three times. Under Nikita Khrushchev, Russia transferred Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. The peninsula required more economic subsidies than it was worth. There is a heavy ethnic Russian presence in Crimea today because after the Red Army recaptured the Crimean peninsula from the Nazis, Stalin accused the local indigenous people (the Crimean Tatars) of collaborating with the Nazis and deported all of the Tatars to Uzbekistan in 1944. Their homes and businesses etc. were then awarded to ethnic Russians from Russia proper. The new sovereign nation of Ukraine welcomed the Tatar people back home to Crimea after Ukrainian independence in 1991. 250,000 Tatars returned to Crimea, and roughly 230,000 remained in Uzbekistan. But still, Russians remained the largest ethnicity in Crimea. In 1997, Russia and Ukraine divided up the former Soviet Black Sea Fleet that was headquartered at Sevastopol, Crimea, Ukraine. A treaty was signed whereby Russia would rent the naval base at Sevastopol for an annual fee plus subsidies for Russian gas/oil. So, from 1997 to 2014, Moscow paid Ukraine a yearly fee to rent the naval base at Sevastopol. As is obvious, one does not pay rent for something one already owns. It is from this huge naval base at Sevastopol that the Russian military overran the small Ukrainian military force in Crimea in 2014. Moscow held a phony referendum and annexed Crimea in 2014. Crimea remains under Russian military occupation today.

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

U.N. General Assembly declares Crimea secession vote invalid

Frankly, to me, Ukrainian and Russian are similar. Both are Slavic and, I believe, Ukrainian can even be written in the Cyrillic alphabet. I think the problem between the two countries is political, not linguistic. The Czechs and the Slovaks always got along although they had slightly different languages because one had never colonized the other.

The Ukrainian people ('Rus) originally were a marriage of Slavic tribes and Varangian (Viking) explorers. Kyiv was a thriving capital city before Moscow was even founded. Written Ukrainian uses a variant of the Cyrillic alphabet. The language is Eastern Slavic, and retains a degree of mutual intelligibility with Russian, Byelorussian, and Polish. From1804 until 1922, the Russians banned the teaching of Ukrainian in schools. But it remained strong in Western Ukraine. The general rule of thumb in Ukraine is that the farther west you go the more Ukrainian is spoken and the farther east you go the more Russian is spoken. Almost everyone in Ukraine can speak/understand both languages. It is not unusual for a husband to speak Ukrainian and his wife to speak Russian. Ukrainian is the national language, and Russian is a protected language. In schools, Ukrainian is taught but one can always take Russian as an elective secondary language. In the universities, all class courses must be available in Ukrainian, Russian, and English. Many English speaking students from all over the world attend university in Ukraine because the tuition/housing costs are attractive. Ukraine is the largest country fully on the European continent (Russia extends into Asia). The national potential is tremendous but for two significant roadblocks that seem intractable -- oligarchy and endemic corruption. Both are hard-wired into this society from living under Russian/Soviet dominance for many hundreds of years.

 

[Tigerace117]

I did consulting work in Ukraine. I lived in Lviv, Kyiv, Odesa, Kharkiv, and Yalta. I can speak (to a degree) Ukrainian and Shurzhik (which is a mix of Ukrainian and Russian). I could also always hire a "guide" that was an expert in the local area and dialect. I also visited Russia three times. Under Nikita Khrushchev, Russia transferred Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. The peninsula required more economic subsidies than it was worth. There is a heavy ethnic Russian presence in Crimea today because after the Red Army recaptured the Crimean peninsula from the Nazis, Stalin accused the local indigenous people (the Crimean Tatars) of collaborating with the Nazis and deported all of the Tatars to Uzbekistan in 1944. Their homes and businesses etc. were then awarded to ethnic Russians from Russia proper. The new sovereign nation of Ukraine welcomed the Tatar people back home to Crimea after Ukrainian independence in 1991. 250,000 Tatars returned to Crimea, and roughly 230,000 remained in Uzbekistan. But still, Russians remained the largest ethnicity in Crimea. In 1997, Russia and Ukraine divided up the former Soviet Black Sea Fleet that was headquartered at Sevastopol, Crimea, Ukraine. A treaty was signed whereby Russia would rent the naval base at Sevastopol for an annual fee plus subsidies for Russian gas/oil. So, from 1997 to 2014, Moscow paid Ukraine a yearly fee to rent the naval base at Sevastopol. As is obvious, one does not pay rent for something one already owns. It is from this huge naval base at Sevastopol that the Russian military overran the small Ukrainian military force in Crimea in 2014. Moscow held a phony referendum and annexed Crimea in 2014. Crimea remains under Russian military occupation today.

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

U.N. General Assembly declares Crimea secession vote invalid




The Ukrainian people ('Rus) originally were a marriage of Slavic tribes and Varangian (Viking) explorers. Kyiv was a thriving capital city before Moscow was even founded. Written Ukrainian uses a variant of the Cyrillic alphabet. The language is Eastern Slavic, and retains a degree of mutual intelligibility with Russian, Byelorussian, and Polish. From1804 until 1922, the Russians banned the teaching of Ukrainian in schools. But it remained strong in Western Ukraine. The general rule of thumb in Ukraine is that the farther west you go the more Ukrainian is spoken and the farther east you go the more Russian is spoken. Almost everyone in Ukraine can speak/understand both languages. It is not unusual for a husband to speak Ukrainian and his wife to speak Russian. Ukrainian is the national language, and Russian is a protected language. In schools, Ukrainian is taught but one can always take Russian as an elective secondary language. In the universities, all class courses must be available in Ukrainian, Russian, and English. Many English speaking students from all over the world attend university in Ukraine because the tuition/housing costs are attractive. Ukraine is the largest country fully on the European continent (Russia extends into Asia). The national potential is tremendous but for two significant roadblocks that seem intractable -- oligarchy and endemic corruption. Both are hard-wired into this society from living under Russian/Soviet dominance for many hundreds of years.

Clearly proving a country with “hardwired endemic corruption” advanced American military technology could never backfire. Oh wait

 

[Grandpappy]

But Kammy said the next war would be over water!

 

[Tigerace117]

But Kammy said the next war would be over water!

Actually the odds of a major war being fought over control of water resources is very high......so all your snark does it expose your own ignorance.

 

[Rogue Valley]

 

[Ringo Stalin]

I think topic of the threat not about coffee or any other beverage in the cup. Be more attentive, please.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I highly doubt Russia or even Ukraine has much interest in "dialogue."

 

[Ringo Stalin]

I highly doubt Russia or even Ukraine has much interest in "dialogue."

It is a pity that Russia, like Israel, which destroys its enemies (especially the nazis) anywhere in the world, does not act in the same way. It can't be, that such actions are allowed only to Israel, can it? If Russia did this, then today's nazis in Ukraine would have fertilized the land long ago and we talk now about something more pleasant, then stinking ukainian nazis.

 

[NewfieMom]

The United States is engaged with our NATO allies in discussing the dangerous movement of a large movement of Russian troops in a move that threatens Ukraine. It is happening today.

"On Wednesday, 14 April 2021, the NATO Secretary General, Jens Stoltenberg, will meet with the U.S. Secretary of State, Mr. Antony J. Blinken, and with U.S. Secretary of Defense, Lloyd J. Austin III, at NATO Headquarters."

Visit to NATO by the US Secretary of State and the US Secretary of Defense and Meeting of NATO Ministers of Foreign Affairs and NATO Ministers of Defence

On Wednesday, 14 April 2021, the NATO Secretary General, Jens Stoltenberg, will meet with the U.S. Secretary of State, Mr. Antony J. Blinken, and with U.S. Secretary of Defense, Lloyd J. Austin III, at NATO Headquarters.

www.nato.int

 

[OrphanSlug]

It is a pity that Russia, like Israel, which destroys its enemies (especially the nazis) anywhere in the world, does not act in the same way. It can't be, that such actions are allowed only to Israel, can it? If Russia did this, then today's nazis in Ukraine would have fertilized the land long ago and we talk now about something more pleasant, then stinking ukainian nazis.

Just a point of clarification, what are you talking about?

 

[NewfieMom]

It is a pity that Russia, like Israel, which destroys its enemies (especially the nazis) anywhere in the world, does not act in the same way. It can't be, that such actions are allowed only to Israel, can it? If Russia did this, then today's nazis in Ukraine would have fertilized the land long ago and we talk now about something more pleasant, then stinking ukainian nazis.

Ukrainians served as guards in Nazi concentration camps. Like most Eastern Europeans, Ukrainians were very anti-semitic during the World War II era. In that sense I can understand using a pejorative term like "Nazi" towards them. But in almost every other respect the term "Nazi" does not fit.

Russia is currently trying to expand its territory and influence in an attempt to regain the status and wealth it has as the Soviet Union. It is far more like Nazi Germany under Hitler in its foreign policy, attempting to dominate the world and gain back what it lost in World War I and then some, than is Ukraine.

 

[NewfieMom]

Just a point of clarification, what are you talking about?

I think he is saying that Israel can get away with extra-legal actions without being sanctioned by the United States. But if he looks at Saudi Arabia, he will see they get away with a lot more. The blood was still dripping from MBS' hands when he met again with Jared Kushner.

 

[bomberfox]

I think he is saying that Israel can get away with extra-legal actions without being sanctioned by the United States. But if he looks at Saudi Arabia, he will see they get away with a lot more. The blood was still dripping from MBS' hands when he met again with Jared Kushner.

That sort of thing always irked me.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I think he is saying that Israel can get away with extra-legal actions without being sanctioned by the United States. But if he looks at Saudi Arabia, he will see they get away with a lot more. The blood was still dripping from MBS' hands when he met again with Jared Kushner.

If that is what we are talking about, I would agree that the US tends to shield the actions of Israel that even various EU nations frown on. Similar but not quite the same story with how the US tends to handle the actions of theocratic dictatorships in nations like Saudi Arabia.

The Jared Kushner statement is irrelevant. The foreign policy of the US has been an entangling mess of hypocrisy and confusion going all the way back to the late 1970s, in some regards even much further than that.

To your point Ukraine is not exactly know for transparent governments absent their own hypocrisies and corruptions. But I would mention that none of those are quite apples to apples comparisons to nations such as Russia, China, North Korea, what have you.

Long story very short, all these players have their own degrees of hypocrisy, corruptions, and dubious intentions. The point of this thread is the OP suggesting the Ukraine wants "dialogue" with Russia to deescalate all this, and I am not too sure I can buy that.

Does not mean I side with Russia all of a sudden, I clearly do not. But do not ask me to buy every piece of news and commentary from Ukraine as some bastion of honor and integrity.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

If that is what we are talking about, I would agree that the US tends to shield the actions of Israel that even various EU nations frown on. Similar but not quite the same story with how the US tends to handle the actions of theocratic dictatorships in nations like Saudi Arabia.

The Jared Kushner statement is irrelevant. The foreign policy of the US has been an entangling mess of hypocrisy and confusion going all the way back to the late 1970s, in some regards even much further than that.

To your point Ukraine is not exactly know for transparent governments absent their own hypocrisies and corruptions. But I would mention that none of those are quite apples to apples comparisons to nations such as Russia, China, North Korea, what have you.

Long story very short, all these players have their own degrees of hypocrisy, corruptions, and dubious intentions. The point of this thread is the OP suggesting the Ukraine wants "dialogue" with Russia to deescalate all this, and I am not too sure I can buy that.

Does not mean I side with Russia all of a sudden, I clearly do not. But do not ask me to buy every piece of news and commentary from Ukraine as some bastion of honor and integrity.

The whole situation is a gray zone, there are antagonists on both sides. The following is an article from a NATO-approved source of news:


The Azov Regiment has not depoliticized

UkraineAlert by Oleksiy Kuzmenko
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A member of the Azov Regiment pictured at a position on the front line in Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine. April 12, 2019. REUTERS/Gleb Garanich
The Azov Regiment within Ukraine’s National Guard has in recent years sought to distance itself from the broader Azov movement’s roots on the far right of the Ukrainian political spectrum. This has been used as an argument against calls from some quarters in the US to define the regiment as a Foreign Terrorist Organization. However, despite claims to have moved away from far-right ideology, the available evidence indicates that the regiment remains joined at the hip to the internationally active National Corps party it spawned, and the wider Azov movement associated with the regiment.
The Azov movement has long been a symbol of the far-right in Ukraine. It has risen to prominence over the past six years due to its role in the ongoing war against Russia, and has achieved levels of mainstream media exposure far in excess of the group’s minimal electoral support. This is not only a domestic issue for Ukraine. The far-right in general, and their apparent impunity, have significantly damaged Ukraine’s international reputation and left the country vulnerable to hostile narratives exaggerating the role of extremist groups in Ukraine. With awareness of right-wing terrorism now growing globally, the potential threat posed by the Ukrainian far-right beyond the borders of the country is attracting increasing attention.

CONT'D

 

[Abbazorkzog]

It goes on to say;

Max Rose recently published a New York Times op-ed along with anti-terrorism expert Ali Soufan in which the regiment was, without supporting evidence, linked to overseas right-wing terrorism. Anton Shekhovtsov responded to these claims by pointing out a number of factual errors. Unfortunately, Shekhovtsov’s article also mischaracterizes the Azov Regiment; namely in terms of its ties to the National Corps, a far-right political party created and led by the unit’s former commanders. Shekhovtsov himself has described this party as “neo-Nazi”... Conducted together with online open-source investigators Bellingcat, my research into the National Corps has revealed a pattern of troubling international activity and ties to white supremacist groups. New revelations appear regularly. I recently learned that the National Corps apparently provided training in Odesa to a member of American neo-Nazi group “Rise Above Movement”. In 2019, the party invited German neo-Nazi party “Dritte Weg” (Third Way) to march alongside Ukrainian veterans in Kyiv.

The International Far-Right Terrorist Threat Requires a Multilateral Response

A 2019 report by the Soufan Center (where we both work) singled out Ukraine as an epicenter of organizing; white supremacists, including more than 30 Americans, have traveled to the country to hone their skills with Ukrainian-based neo-Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, which has been fighting Russian separatists. In October 2020, two Americans from the Atomwaffen Division (AWD), a U.S-based neo-Nazi group, tried to link up with the Azov battalion in Ukraine so that they could gain combat experience. Propaganda and ideological concepts were shared between members of the American radical right and like-minded individuals overseas via fascist websites. AWD used the fascist web forum Iron March to connect with European-based neo-Nazi groups like the Nordic Resistance Movement.

Anyone trying to act like this Ukraine vs Russia issue is a black and white one is mentally a child.

 

[Tigerace117]

Oh look, more cowardice from you. How surprising....not. I get that you aren’t capable of actually defending your positions but try not humiliating yourself for a change.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Ukrainians served as guards in Nazi concentration camps. Like most Eastern Europeans, Ukrainians were very anti-semitic during the World War II era. In that sense I can understand using a pejorative term like "Nazi" towards them. But in almost every other respect the term "Nazi" does not fit.

Russia is currently trying to expand its territory and influence in an attempt to regain the status and wealth it has as the Soviet Union. It is far more like Nazi Germany under Hitler in its foreign policy, attempting to dominate the world and gain back what it lost in World War I and then some, than is Ukraine.

Individuals from virtually every nation in Europe (including Russia) served with the SS.

Volunteers from Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, the Netherlands and Belgium filled out the SS Viking Division.

 

[NewfieMom]

Individuals from virtually every nation in Europe (including Russia) served with the SS.

Volunteers from Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, the Netherlands and Belgium filled out the SS Viking Division.

Serving in the German Army, no matter how despicable its cause, is not the same thing as being recruited from the dregs of humanity to work in a death camp.

 

[Roadvirus]

Ukraine Says Russia Ignoring Calls For Dialogue Amid Rising Tensions

Ukraine says it has requested talks with Russia to discuss escalating tensions in eastern Ukraine but has yet to receive an answer, prompting warnings from the West, including calls by Washington for Moscow to explain its actions at an upcoming security meeting.

www.rferl.org

Why should Russia talk ceasefire when Putin finds it more fun to be a bully?

Russia is a rogue nation just like China. If one had to choose which was worse, that would be a serious brain buster. It's impossible to tell them apart.