• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ukraine is getting Switchblade. It should be just the first wave of loitering munitions for Kyiv. (1 Viewer)

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
96,308
Reaction score
85,476
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

iu

3.18.22
Hours after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered an impassioned plea for help to the U.S. Congress on March 16, President Joe Biden announced that Washington will provide $800 million in additional security assistance to Ukraine, including 100 Switchblade loitering munitions (LMs), commonly referred to as “suicide drones.” While members of Congress have pushed for the potential transfer to Ukraine of Polish MiG-29s, the White House is wise to prioritize weapon systems that can quickly bolster Ukrainian combat capability while minimizing logistical burdens and vulnerability to Russian attack. The problem, however, is Ukraine will likely expend those 100 Switchblades in mere days, and the variant of the Switchblade Washington is most likely sending is of no serious use against Russian armor. Accordingly, Washington should work with NATO allies to urgently provide Ukraine with additional shipments consisting of greater quantities and varieties of loitering munitions, or LMs.

LMs are a combination of missiles and aerial surveillance drones. They blend the ability to maneuver, conduct surveillance, and strike targets into a single platform, reducing the time between detection and engagement of a target. That could prove decisive for Ukrainian defenders who may encounter more close-quarters urban combat in the coming days. While Congress should press the administration to send Ukraine more American-made LMs, the United States should solicit help from other countries as well. Turkey operates the Kargu-2, Australia manufactures the Drone-40 which can be useful in an urban environment. Poland’s Warmate-series of LMs can strike targets out to roughly 9 km. The Warmate’s portability and range make it suitable for disrupting Russian supply convoys from a safe distance. If these LMs are not already being sent to Ukraine en masse, they should be.


Like Javelin's and Stinger's, LM's could be a game changer in Ukraine, especially in urban warfare settings.

Probably the best LM's are manufactured by Israel (Harop and Orbiter), but so far Jerusalem is intent on not harming its relations with Moscow.
 
A $6,000 drone to take out a $4 million tank. Probably the only cost effective thing to happen in this war.
 
You do what you have to in war, is what it is.
 
Boy! we can turn the Ukraine into a proving grounds for our weapons systems.

Let's face it, there is no winning for the people of the Ukraine, for even if they manage to fend off this invasion by the Russians, all they are likely to have left is the bombed and burned out shell of a nation overlooking the graves of their friends and family.

This whole affair is the biggest shit sandwich of all time, and while we will all have our bite at it, the people of the Ukraine will be left to eat 90% of it.
 
This whole affair is the biggest shit sandwich of all time, and while we will all have our bite at it, the people of the Ukraine will be left to eat 90% of it.

This entire saga is Putin's doing, but I doubt Moscow will pay reparations.

However I know the Ukrainians. They'll try to rebuild as finances permit
 
This entire saga is Putin's doing, but I doubt Moscow will pay reparations.

However I know the Ukrainians. They'll try to rebuild as finances permit
I hear you, I just hate this for them. To me it's just war on TV, unless it breaks out into a conflict that sees my son activated to fight. I just want to express my empathy for the people of the Ukraine, caught between the empires of the West and Russian aggressions. They don't deserve this, they deserve to live in peace and to enjoy prosperity.

People everywhere deserve that, but the free world and the rule of tyranny can not coexist, one must impose it's dominance over the other. We( the West ) have made many follies, gone to war when and where we should not, and practice appeasement for the sake of corporate profits.

We ( the West ) can't really claim the moral high ground, we are conflicted with ourselves, the rule of tyranny has no such moral conflicts. If we hope to defeat them, we must first come to terms with what we are and fix our shortcoming.
 
This entire saga is Putin's doing, but I doubt Moscow will pay reparations.

However I know the Ukrainians. They'll try to rebuild as finances permit
Warsaw was flattened to rubble during WW2. Even the Old Town was rebuilt as it was prior to Hitler's re-modelling.
1647699230670.png
Kiev, after WW2...
1647699375775.png
 

iu




Like Javelin's and Stinger's, LM's could be a game changer in Ukraine, especially in urban warfare settings.

Probably the best LM's are manufactured by Israel (Harop and Orbiter), but so far Jerusalem is intent on not harming its relations with Moscow.

Too bad Israel isn't in this fight. It's iron dome system, in particular, is the kind of system Ukraine has needed.
 

iu




Like Javelin's and Stinger's, LM's could be a game changer in Ukraine, especially in urban warfare settings.

Probably the best LM's are manufactured by Israel (Harop and Orbiter), but so far Jerusalem is intent on not harming its relations with Moscow.

I'm finding the recent news of increased help to Ukraine to be very discouraging. What the article seems to be saying is that a token number "switchblades" , non armor piercing types, will be sent to Ukraine this week. Just 100 of them.

This is most disappointing. Either the administration has little it is willing to offer, or the military didn't have that many produced anyway. It sounds like many weeks will pass before a significant number (if they are available) will arrive. Ukraine needs at least a couple of thousand, not just a hundred now and then.

And the S-300 systems look to be insufficient and delayed. Slovakia will provide a single battery (4-8 launchers) and 50 missiles... but that is barely enough to cover Kiev. They need more like 10 to 20 batteries ASAP.

And of course, the stubborn denial of aircraft has been absurd.

We are still one step behind Putin, and that is very very sad.
 
When you think about it, Isreal is also an occupying power. It has that in common with Russia.

Well then, given Israel's dependence on US arms and aide for decades, like any Godfather its time to demand they return the favor. We ought to be telling them behind closed doors that they must return the favor...or else.
 
Well then, given Israel's dependence on US arms and aide for decades, like any Godfather its time to demand they return the favor. We ought to be telling them behind closed doors that they must return the favor...or else.

Israel's refusal to stand with democracy makes me sick to my stomach.
 
Well then, given Israel's dependence on US arms and aide for decades, like any Godfather its time to demand they return the favor. We ought to be telling them behind closed doors that they must return the favor...or else.

I agree. But Congress gets queasy when such a topic is broached.
 
Israel's refusal to stand with democracy makes me sick to my stomach.

I agree, and I have been a supporter of Israel for a long time. Whatever one thinks of their actions, I am a firm believer that if the US helps protect and arm a nations ass it should demand a quid pro quo. South Korea did so in Vietnam, and I expect the same from Japan, Tiawan, Israel, and any other so-called ally.

Isreal's excessive caution in this crisis is unacceptable. They should be fully aware that by now, they have nothing to fear from the Russian reaction in Syria...not over simply allowing third parties to donate Israeli systems to Ukraine.

It's the same crap we got from Germany...
 
A little chastisement behind closed doors wouldn't be inappropriate. You can imagine how Putin would respond if Syria refused to supply Russia with cannon fodder.
I love how you refer to "MAJOR ****ING ASS CHEWING" as "chastisement" 😆
I guess that's my way of saying that Israel needs a very graphic reminder of who has stood by them all these years.

I realize you're not a fan of Democrats but I think this would have been an ideal job for Al Franken.
I think even Liz Cheney would be happy to stand with him and offer some remarks.
 
I love how you refer to "MAJOR ****ING ASS CHEWING" as "chastisement" 😆
I guess that's my way of saying that Israel needs a very graphic reminder of who has stood by them all these years.

I realize you're not a fan of Democrats but I think this would have been an ideal job for Al Franken.
I think even Liz Cheney would be happy to stand with him and offer some remarks.

Fair enough. I backed off because of the comment over Congress being upset. But you are 100 percent correct, a major ass chewing is overdue.
 
Fair enough. I backed off because of the comment over Congress being upset. But you are 100 percent correct, a major ass chewing is overdue.

Dude, I'm just talking, you know, making a smartass remark for shits and giggles?
I assure you I am not focused on getting you to "back off" or anything like that. 1647732540350.png

We're on the verge of either an unprecedented sea-change in the world order (the old world order not the so called "new" one) or global thermonuclear war,
or the most morally, physically, psychologically and ethically bankrupting war in history...possibly even an ELE or close enough.
Polly-ticks seems so far away to me now, *you like your bathrooms with clear gender ID versus IDGAF either way just so long as it's clean & the pisser works.
*(hypothetical...sarcasm)

It's all small fish, really...we the people were never meant to be in full agreement about every little thing, but we weren't supposed to
get into society destroying battles over them either, just civil butting of heads over pizza or something.
We were meant to all see each other as at least semi-respectable fellow citizens.

The bottom finally dropped out of that altogether about a decade or so ago.
And I just happen to think that's actually almost as big a problem, at least for us.
For ole Vladdy Putin, it's a bonus.

And I guess I'm saying that all of us better get our heads out of our collective asses or
we'll all know the reason why in short order, and Vladdy Putin might not even have to do much more than
make popcorn and watch.
And I don't want that for my country, which I really do love, just like I'm sure you don't either.

Now, humor me for just a moment, would you?
You do understand that there are a lot of people who actually think it would be neato to have Putin calling the shots from now on.
Your thoughts?
 
Dude, I'm just talking, you know, making a smartass remark for shits and giggles?
I assure you I am not focused on getting you to "back off" or anything like that. View attachment 67381041

We're on the verge of either an unprecedented sea-change in the world order (the old world order not the so called "new" one) or global thermonuclear war,
or the most morally, physically, psychologically and ethically bankrupting war in history...possibly even an ELE or close enough.
Polly-ticks seems so far away to me now, *you like your bathrooms with clear gender ID versus IDGAF either way just so long as it's clean & the pisser works.
*(hypothetical...sarcasm)

It's all small fish, really...we the people were never meant to be in full agreement about every little thing, but we weren't supposed to
get into society destroying battles over them either, just civil butting of heads over pizza or something.
We were meant to all see each other as at least semi-respectable fellow citizens.

The bottom finally dropped out of that altogether about a decade or so ago.
And I just happen to think that's actually almost as big a problem, at least for us.
For ole Vladdy Putin, it's a bonus.

And I guess I'm saying that all of us better get our heads out of our collective asses or
we'll all know the reason why in short order, and Vladdy Putin might not even have to do much more than
make popcorn and watch.
And I don't want that for my country, which I really do love, just like I'm sure you don't either.

Now, humor me for just a moment, would you?
You do understand that there are a lot of people who actually think it would be neato to have Putin calling the shots from now on.
Your thoughts?

It's hard for me to find the humor I once had, this war has consumed my attention. It's probably time I take a break and watch or do something less serious...but I've personalized it. That anyone can admire or even tolerate Putin is an abomination beyond imagining. How can anyone with an IQ over 10 admire not just an authoritarian, not just corrupt, but someone whose entire world view is that his own people are nothing, that they are dairy cows to be milked to protect and enrich his own manufactured oligarchical elite?

It's one thing to be a populist, someone who claims to hate big government and big banks etc., but how can the same people admire someone who is stealing bread from the populace...from the very people that the populist claims to represent?

Russia is a mafia state run by a mob, except the victims of this kleptocracy support being robbed because the God Father dangles "Russia as victim" before their nearly blind eyes.

In Russia, the nationalists happily walk into the gas chamber once the word "Russia" is whispered.
 
It's hard for me to find the humor I once had, this war has consumed my attention. It's probably time I take a break and watch or do something less serious...but I've personalized it. That anyone can admire or even tolerate Putin is an abomination beyond imagining. How can anyone with an IQ over 10 admire not just an authoritarian, not just corrupt, but someone whose entire world view is that his own people are nothing, that they are dairy cows to be milked to protect and enrich his own manufactured oligarchical elite?

It's one thing to be a populist, someone who claims to hate big government and big banks etc., but how can the same people admire someone who is stealing bread from the populace...from the very people that the populist claims to represent?

Russia is a mafia state run by a mob, except the victims of this kleptocracy support being robbed because the God Father dangles "Russia as victim" before their nearly blind eyes.

In Russia, the nationalists happily walk into the gas chamber once the word "Russia" is whispered.

Too many of our own in emulation mode.
We need to extricate ourselves and take some walks in the sunshine, so to speak.
We can still fight like cats and dogs if the mood strikes us, but we must restore ethics and a tad more respect.
This is about preserving the founding values of the republic, rule of law, voting, you know, all that "Mom & Apple Pie" stuff, which in reality
is pretty good stuff to crow about.

There's no guy named Clark Kent walking around but there's clearly a couple of Lex Luthors and at least one of them aspires to be Zod.


(honk if you get the joke)
Lexus Luthorus 2.jpg
 
Boy! we can turn the Ukraine into a proving grounds for our weapons systems.

Let's face it, there is no winning for the people of the Ukraine, for even if they manage to fend off this invasion by the Russians, all they are likely to have left is the bombed and burned out shell of a nation overlooking the graves of their friends and family.

This whole affair is the biggest shit sandwich of all time, and while we will all have our bite at it, the people of the Ukraine will be left to eat 90% of it.

This is either pro-Russian agitation or cowardice.
 

iu




Like Javelin's and Stinger's, LM's could be a game changer in Ukraine, especially in urban warfare settings.

Probably the best LM's are manufactured by Israel (Harop and Orbiter), but so far Jerusalem is intent on not harming its relations with Moscow.
“Foundation for defense of democracies”

Lol the fact such an organization even exists is evidence of the parasitic nature of western states where political supporters literally get paid to form front groups for foreign policy lobbying.

It’s also very telling that the west is trying to prolong the conflict which would be over with a negotiated settlement by now if the west wasn’t dumping weapons. We need a return of strict neutrality acts
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom