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UK like a "third world country" marked by "a new and aggressive atheism"

I don't really include the U.K. and Ireland with continental Europe. And they only use Britian when they need a European nation to represent a positive angle for Europe. Otherwise, you're outcasts.

Is that a bad thing? Our country isn't like mainland Europe. Its prouder, its more unified, our values stronger. Thank God you don't consider us as Europe.
 
Ben K. -
And of course, it is equally pathetic to believe your problems are because of Europe.

Because Europe was the source of two world wars, fascism, communism, socialism, Nazism, incredible genocide and the drawing up madcap borders throughout the world, it's not such a stretch to see Europe as an ongoing problem that can never seem to get its act completely together.

As if the problems of history and human nature began with European ascendancy (perhaps we ourselves can blame the Persians, Huns and Mongols et al for the trans continental threat)

Good idea! Europeans continually search around for someone else to blame for the messes they create. Why not blame the Mongols?
Again, you and Grant make increasingly bizarre claims that Europe displays more anti-Americanism than anyone else. Perhaps exit your social bubble for a while, talk to a Cambodian, a Brazilian, an Iranian, a Vietnamese, a Chinese or South Korean and you'll see far worse.

I love it when Europeans try to justify their anti Americanism by claiming "See?? The Cambodians hate you too!!"

Of course, America's disproportionate obsession with European attitudes is a hard addiction to kick.

Actually Americans don't pay much attention to Europeans at all, as you'll hear many Europeans complain. You're largely out of the loop, except on a need to know basis. If its any comfort, I find you quite amusing.
 
So basically you were wrong and are trying to pass off your mistake with a joke?
 

I'd argue we have one of the best integrated Muslim societies in the West, with many Muslims taking up good position in Parliament and the Conservative party.

Watch Nick Griffin on Question Time being confronted by one such member [Nick Griffin being a RADICAL CHRISTIAN].
 
So basically you were wrong and are trying to pass off your mistake with a joke?

It was British Muslims committing terrorism in India. That makes it international.

Do you genuinely not know that there are British terrorists working overseas?

I joke largely because I have no idea whether you are serious or not, and the moderators frown on insults towards a person's intelligence.

I'm trying to be nice.
 
I'd argue we have one of the best integrated Muslim societies in the West, with many Muslims taking up good position in Parliament and the Conservative party.

Watch Nick Griffin on Question Time being confronted by one such member [Nick Griffin being a RADICAL CHRISTIAN].


MetalGear do you have any evidence that Nick Griffin is a Christian, much less a radical one?
 
It was British Muslims committing terrorism in India. That makes it international.

Do you genuinely not know that there are British terrorists working overseas?

I joke largely because I have no idea whether you are serious or not, and the moderators frown on insults towards a person's intelligence.

I'm trying to be nice.

Do your research first please.

Indian authorities have released the names or aliases of the nine suspected militants killed during last month's attacks in the city of Mumbai (Bombay).

Photographs of eight of the men were released - the body of the ninth was said to have been too badly burned.

Police said all were from Pakistan. They did not say how this was known but one gunman, named as Azam Amir Qasab, survived and has been interrogated.

Your mail online story is old and out of date.
 
You have had to go back several centuries to provide examples of Christian religious conflict. Of course that is not so with Islam.

"The Troubles" involved ignorant and uneducated Irish louts who wore their brand of Christianity as a challenge, rather than a way of life. They were the closest contemporary Christianity ever came to resembling Islam.

Really?
And here's me thinking it was a civil rights issue.
 
Really?
And here's me thinking it was a civil rights issue.

Oh, Most certainly some Irishmen felt their civil rights were under threat and blowing up a pub full of innocent people was naturally the only appropriate response.
 
Ben K. -

Because Europe was the source of two world wars, fascism, communism, socialism, Nazism, incredible genocide and the drawing up madcap borders throughout the world, it's not such a stretch to see Europe as an ongoing problem that can never seem to get its act completely together.

Capitalism, human rights, modern science, modern art and literature, outlawing slavery, common law, parliamentary democracy (the most stable form of government in the world), responsibility for the biggest population boom in human history.


Good idea! Europeans continually search around for someone else to blame for the messes they create. Why not blame the Mongols?

Why not blame the Europeans. Aren't we just as irrelevant?

I love it when Europeans try to justify their anti Americanism by claiming "See?? The Cambodians hate you too!!"

What? You boys make claims that everyone like you besides us and Muslims. Perhaps if you guys could actually read European press (not just the stuff printed in English, not every European watches the BBC and reads the Guardian) and press beyond this continent you'd be better placed to make generalisations.

Actually Americans don't pay much attention to Europeans at all, as you'll hear many Europeans complain. You're largely out of the loop, except on a need to know basis. If its any comfort, I find you quite amusing.

You seem quite butt hurt actually.
 
I met a few British some years back, while living in AZ. One was here temporarily, other 2 had emigrated.
All 3 said that opportunities for advanced education and good jobs are far more available in the USA. The temp guy said that as soon as he finished school, he was "encouraged" to go on the dole, since jobs were lacking, I guess. He was trying to find a way to stay, but didn't manage it back then. Begs the question, is a higher unemployment rate more acceptable in the UK? Do they count people on the dole?
 
Ben K.

Capitalism, human rights, modern science, modern art and literature, outlawing slavery, common law, parliamentary democracy (the most stable form of government in the world), responsibility for the biggest population boom in human history.

Great stuff and most of it done hundreds of years ago. I'm talking of what you have done more recently. Those glory days you mention are all dead and gone, just as is the spirit that created them.

Why not blame the Europeans. Aren't we just as irrelevant?

No, not anymore. Europe only serves as a source of wacky economic theories, misanthropy, world wars and, at its best, an irritant.

What? You boys make claims that everyone like you besides us and Muslims. Perhaps if you guys could actually read European press (not just the stuff printed in English, not every European watches the BBC and reads the Guardian) and press beyond this continent you'd be better placed to make generalisations.

Well this boy speaks more than one language and has traveled the globe extensively.
 
I think there is a few things you don't underdetand about the European region in your willingness to spread the guilt and depravity. America is guilty for what America has done since WW II (the Cold War era) - nothing more. The world was on a natural path until European colonialism. The creation of unnatural borders made this world wrong. In a sudden rush for economic and empire expansion, tribes who had fought against each other for centuries were forced together behind European made borders. Likewise, tribes that had gotten along with each other for centuries were forced apart. There is virtually no location from Africa through the Middle East and onto South Asia that Europeans didn't screw up. Rwanda, Sudan, "Yugoslavia," Iraq, Israel/Palestine, and anywhere else you find slaughter, mayhem, or genocide is a European legacy. One that most of you have washed your hands of even as America becomes the focus of fault.

Americans don't believe that all our problems are because of Europe. Any problems that we have created for ourselves began with the start of the Cold War, which isn't much despite European exaggerations. However, there is no denying that every single location an American boot has been since the end of the Cold War that it has been a legacy of European colonialism. Even Iraq is a Frankenstein's Monster of a nation built unnaturally by Europeans. We can't even rid ourselves of one of "our" Cold War dictators without watching the poplulation slaughter each other. Yugolsavia was the only nation in Europe that didn't have it's borders re-drawn, which facilitated Bosnia and Kosovo. Somalia was just yet another African nation victim to yesteryears European greed.

Given the end of the World War and the almost complete withdrawal of Europeans from their colonies, America didn't have much of a choice. By the time America got involved with the Cold War, the Soviet Union's influence had spanned Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and South America. In order to maintain a sense of "stability" dictators were employed by Soviets and Americans so we can even state that Russians even inherited your messes. It wasn't until the end of the Cold War that the genocide became a featured event in Africa and Europe (again). The tribes, suddenly freed from superpower maintainers, explored their freedom and sought to make right what Europeans made wrong.

As far as anti-Americanism, I provided links to studies that were even conducted by Europeans (I'm sure you ignored them). Perhaps they are merely making bizarre claims too, but I think not. Anti-Americanism is largely exaggerated in the world by Europeans, but it's only in Europe that you will find institutional and policy foundation to undermine American foreign policies. The French have held a grudge ever since we didn't back their greedy play for the Suez. The Germans aren't what they should have been thanks to us. Russia is a backwater country pretending back to power thanks to us. Spain lost its collonies to us. And two European made World Wars needed American participation to settle them. Most of the anti-Americanism that exists around the world has been facilitated by European rumors or by former enemies. Some of it is merely dissapointment because too much was expected ofuspost WWII. We are criticized for imperfections as if we owe perfection to the world. But we haven't started world wars have we? We have never been the cause of mass genocides and hundreds of millions of corpses, have we? 40 years of Cold War saw the Soviet anti-American propoganda machine cover half the world until they were slowly eaten away by truth. In the mean time, it was Western Europeans that increasingly saw every American success as another disgrace for them. Today, many Europeans pretend that American culture was forced upon them as if they weren't begging for it decades ago. A re-capturing of pride is at the root of European anti-Americnism. You would be hard pressed to lay out our sins in this world and try to equate them to what Europe has done. Yet, we have become the face of what to hate in the West for some.

And it's not Americans that are obsessed with Europeans. It's Europeans that have loud and obnoxious opinions on America from decade to decade or event to event. The vast majority of all Americans don't even know who your presidents/chancellors are or who is running the EU. The vast majority have no clue as to your laws or bad behaviors. We don't conduct a never ending series of polls on how Americans feel about Europeans. We simply don't care about you until we have to send Americans across the ocean to kill or bleed for you (and Bosnia wasn't long ago) just to protect our interests. But you will find quite the opposite in Europe. Constant polls on America, constant criticism to our internal business and foreign policies, and constant obsessions with comparing European historical depravities to American fumblings. I mean, where would Europe be today if it couldn't compare Germany's holocaust on Jews to GITMO? We receive not nearly the amount of criticism from Asia or Africa that we receive from Europe. And criticism from the Middle East are largely unfounded and shaped. We've done nothing to them as compared to the Soviets and Europeans, but who is left holding the bag for the lot of you?

But you are in Ireland so what do you know about it? Your concern over the decades has been the British. But Ireland and Britian share something in common. They are both saved from core European depravities thanks to the Channel. De Gaulle disrepected Britain too, you know. Pretty much every outsider that had anything to do with restoring France was looked down upon. This is why he had an axe to grind againsgt English speaking nations. I don't really include the U.K. and Ireland with continental Europe. And they only use Britian when they need a European nation to represent a positive angle for Europe. Otherwise, you're outcasts.

I don't really agree with your assessment that American responsibilty begins post-WW2. You guys did make a **** hole of Liberia, you did arbitrate in cutting up Africa in Tangiers, you did advocate open door policy in China, you did colonise the Phillipines, you did intervene in Latin America. All that said, by making those claims you minimise all positive achievements that America achieved worldwide if you seek to eschew the negative ones from your rap sheet.

Aside from claims of endemic Anti-Americans, one can see that polling indicates that views of America in Europe dropped strongly from positive to negative within the last ten years. I'm from a country that liked Reagan, perhaps because of the Irish name, and the only one beside Israel to hold a day of mourning in the wake of 9-11. Attitudes have indeed hardened and I find it hard to believe that the recent distaste for your foreign policy is because of a single Euro leader in DeGaulle or other European institutional hate-mongering rather than a clearly rising worldwide distaste for American global policy.
 
Ben K.



Great stuff and most of it done hundreds of years ago. I'm talking of what you have done more recently. Those glory days you mention are all dead and gone, just as is the spirit that created them.

No these glory days are still impacting the present, just as the bad **** does.

No, not anymore. Europe only serves as a source of wacky economic theories, misanthropy, world wars and, at its best, an irritant.

Great, we're an irritant. So what's the problem?

Well this boy speaks more than one language and has traveled the globe extensively.

Why do you ever only mention two English language news sources in lampooning Europe then? Maybe you should name check Le Monde and Der Spiegel to keep your waning credibility high. You're still no where close to what the majority of Europeans view but you may turn a few heads. What a wasted talent.
 
I don't really agree with your assessment that American responsibilty begins post-WW2. You guys did make a **** hole of Liberia, you did arbitrate in cutting up Africa in Tangiers, you did advocate open door policy in China, you did colonise the Phillipines, you did intervene in Latin America. All that said, by making those claims you minimise all positive achievements that America achieved worldwide if you seek to eschew the negative ones from your rap sheet.

Aside from claims of endemic Anti-Americans, one can see that polling indicates that views of America in Europe dropped strongly from positive to negative within the last ten years. I'm from a country that liked Reagan, perhaps because of the Irish name, and the only one beside Israel to hold a day of mourning in the wake of 9-11. Attitudes have indeed hardened and I find it hard to believe that the recent distaste for your foreign policy is because of a single Euro leader in DeGaulle or other European institutional hate-mongering rather than a clearly rising worldwide distaste for American global policy.

I'll let UtahBill respond to the rest but yes, the United States did "intervene" in Latin American, just as they intervened in France in WWII. Europeans tend to think that Latinos would prefer to live under Communism but, as those in Eastern Europe can tell you, if you've talked with any yet, Communism was not as great as your media made it out to be.

I happen to be in Central America right now and I can tell you that the people here are grateful for the democracy the United States provided, or helped maintain.

Europeans feel that they have exclusive rights to American aid and assistance and doing it anywhere else is "intervening". Europeans were certainly pleased with American intervention during WWI and WWII but that feeling lasted about as long as the sympathy following 9/11.
 
Ben K.
No these glory days are still impacting the present, just as the bad **** does.

That's right, but the last couple of generations has become dependent on the government teat and has now milked it dry. Not a great reflection on what passed before.

Great, we're an irritant. So what's the problem?

It's really no problem at all. I just like pointing it out.
Why do you ever only mention two English language news sources in lampooning Europe then?

Because this is an English speaking board and most are familiar with the BBC.
Maybe you should name check Le Monde and Der Spiegel to keep your waning credibility high

And I do occasionally. You can often tell they're speaking to a captive audience.
You're still no where close to what the majority of Europeans view but you may turn a few heads.

I tend to agree that the mood in Europe is changing but it really is too little too late. The ship has sailed.
 
I'll let UtahBill respond to the rest but yes, the United States did "intervene" in Latin American, just as they intervened in France in WWII. Europeans tend to think that Latinos would prefer to live under Communism but, as those in Eastern Europe can tell you, if you've talked with any yet, Communism was not as great as your media made it out to be.

I happen to be in Central America right now and I can tell you that the people here are grateful for the democracy the United States provided, or helped maintain.

Europeans feel that they have exclusive rights to American aid and assistance and doing it anywhere else is "intervening". Europeans were certainly pleased with American intervention during WWI and WWII but that feeling lasted about as long as the sympathy following 9/11.
I think I missed something here....
 
Plese excuse me, UtahBill. It was MSgt Ben was responding to.
Too late, I scrolled thru the whole thread just in case I posted something that I had forgotten about. I do that a lot any more....
 
Is that a bad thing? Our country isn't like mainland Europe. Its prouder, its more unified, our values stronger. Thank God you don't consider us as Europe.

I don't think its a bad thing. The strongest of Western allies since the beginning of the 20th century has been the English speaking nations. I believe that without an English Channel, America would have no friends in Europe.
 
I don't think its a bad thing. The strongest of Western allies since the beginning of the 20th century has been the English speaking nations. I believe that without an English Channel, America would have no friends in Europe.

If it was not for "European friends" there would be no USA.
 
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