UK complicity in torture

[alexa]

The true extent of the Labour government's involvement in the illegal abduction and torture of its own citizens after the al-Qaida attacks of September 2001 has been spelled out in stark detail with the disclosure during high court proceedings of a mass of highly classified documents.

Previously secret papers that have been disclosed include a number implicating Tony Blair's office in many of the events that are to be the subject of the judicial inquiry that David Cameron announced last week.

Among the most damning documents are a series of interrogation reports from MI5 officers that betray their disregard for the suffering of a British resident whom they were questioning at a US airbase in Afghanistan. The documents also show that the officers were content to see the mistreatment continue.

Classified documents reveal UK's role in abuse of its own citizens | Law | The Guardian

Maybe the inquiry will be more real than some people feared and save the tax payer continuing sums of money for more.


The torture files: key passages | Law | guardian.co.uk

I guess a change of government helps

 

[PeteEU]

Classified documents reveal UK's role in abuse of its own citizens | Law | The Guardian

Maybe the inquiry will be more real than some people feared and save the tax payer continuing sums of money for more.


The torture files: key passages | Law | guardian.co.uk

I guess a change of government helps

Not really. The Conservative government was complicit during the Northern Ireland troubles for exactly the same thing. It often too the ECHR to beat the UK government over the head so it would stop its actions. The Conservatives should not be crying too much foul... as the past might be dredged up against them....

 

[alexa]

Not really. The Conservative government was complicit during the Northern Ireland troubles for exactly the same thing. It often too the ECHR to beat the UK government over the head so it would stop its actions. The Conservatives should not be crying too much foul... as the past might be dredged up against them....

Awe Pete, you know I am no friends of the Conservatives. However what went on was wrong. That this was duriing a time of a Labour Government allbeit a New Labour governmrnt to previous Labour supporters makes it even more wrong.

The people of this country have been wanting a lot of truth on a lot of things. The Liberals were in favour of this so possibly we have them more to thank for this than the Conservatives desire to make Labour look bad.

 

[alexa]

Actually looks like these disclosures have nothing to do with the government at all

The papers have been disclosed as a result of civil proceedings brought by six former Guantánamo inmates against MI5 and MI6, the Home Office, the Foreign Office, and the Attorney General's Office, which they allege were complicit in their illegal detention and torture

Classified documents reveal UK's role in abuse of its own citizens | Law | The Guardian

As for the government I loved this bit

Cameron also made clear that the sort of material that has so far been made public with the limited disclosure in the Guantánamo cases would be kept firmly under wraps during the inquiry. "Let's be frank, it is not possible to have a full public inquiry into something that is meant to be secret," he said. "So any intelligence material provided to the inquiry panel will not be made public and nor will intelligence officers be asked to give evidence in public."

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Such control-freakery was right up Labour's street, but we are talking about those who waltzed off to help the Taliban and who now pretend to be abused POWs? Looks like they're only 'British' when it suits them!

And what do you expect MI6 to do, deliver flowers to win these people over?

(Yet we have to *****foot around the Muslim Community just 'cos the Government has the temerity to act on its own discretion in war? http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...ar+on+terror&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 )

These terrorists might have had British passports but no way were they intent on adopting anything else of ours. Not being truly British is the only thing stopping me from calling them conventional traitors, evil parasites as they still are.

 

[PeteEU]

Awe Pete, you know I am no friends of the Conservatives. However what went on was wrong. That this was duriing a time of a Labour Government allbeit a New Labour governmrnt to previous Labour supporters makes it even more wrong.

The people of this country have been wanting a lot of truth on a lot of things. The Liberals were in favour of this so possibly we have them more to thank for this than the Conservatives desire to make Labour look bad.

Yes and it was wrong when it was being done to the northern Irish population. Does not matter who does it, wrong is wrong, and if the conservatives use this informaiton for political gain, then I hope labour shoots back with the Thatcher years and what she did to the northern Irish.

 

[alexa]

Yes and it was wrong when it was being done to the northern Irish population. Does not matter who does it, wrong is wrong, and if the conservatives use this informaiton for political gain, then I hope labour shoots back with the Thatcher years and what she did to the northern Irish.

I think the general hope with regard to the Iraq war is to find a way whereby such a situation will not happen again. With the Iraq issue we could also go back for a very long time finding faults.

The issue with the public is I think about making sure of our standards and that of our politicians.

We do not want to be taken into wars on lies and we do not expect our government to be involved in torture complicit or otherwise.

We are dealing here with recent history.

 

[PeteEU]

I think the general hope with regard to the Iraq war is to find a way whereby such a situation will not happen again. With the Iraq issue we could also go back for a very long time finding faults.

The issue with the public is I think about making sure of our standards and that of our politicians.

We do not want to be taken into wars on lies and we do not expect our government to be involved in torture complicit or otherwise.

We are dealing here with recent history.

I know it is recent history but there is an old saying.. if you dont learn from history then you are doomed to repeat it.. and in the UK's case, the UK politician did not learn from the past.

 

[alexa]

I know it is recent history but there is an old saying.. if you dont learn from history then you are doomed to repeat it.. and in the UK's case, the UK politician did not learn from the past.

So Pete, what is your point. No need to look into why we went to war on lies and no point in looking into the UK's complicity in torture because all these things happened in the past.

Just keep on and do the same next time?

 

[PeteEU]

So Pete, what is your point. No need to look into why we went to war on lies and no point in looking into the UK's complicity in torture because all these things happened in the past.

Just keep on and do the same next time?

No far from it. I believe there should be a credible investigation into it in the UK (and US) and those found to have lied and abused their power should be put on trial for treason. It aint gonna happen though.

My point is that if the Conservatives use these "classified" documents and reports to take pot shots at the previous government, then they are not only stupid but not exactly looking at their own past. Plus for a long while the Conservatives backed the Labour government when it came to these issues.

 

[Andalublue]

Such control-freakery was right up Labour's street, but we are talking about those who waltzed off to help the Taliban and who now pretend to be abused POWs? Looks like they're only 'British' when it suits them!

And what do you expect MI6 to do, deliver flowers to win these people over?

(Yet we have to *****foot around the Muslim Community just 'cos the Government has the temerity to act on its own discretion in war? muslim community tensions war on terror - Google Search )

These terrorists might have had British passports but no way were they intent on adopting anything else of ours. Not being truly British is the only thing stopping me from calling them conventional traitors, evil parasites as they still are.

Never, in the field of human logic, has one poster tied himself up in so many knots trying to applaud and and s**t on the the same government at the same time.

In the same post you attack New labour and then applaud them for attacking the alleged Islamists.

 

[Andalublue]

It becomes more apparent that New Labour were complicit in torture, secret renditions and dirty tricks. Those ba****ds, in order to suck up to a White House filled with people who had nothing but distain for Britain and Europe, were prepared to sacrifice every principle of due process in a more craven manner than even took place during WWII, which it doesn't take much logic to see, posed a slightly more serious threat to national security (or national survival) than 100 Al Qaedas. I'm pleased New Labour got beaten, although I'm 100% convinced that had Cameron et al been in charge at the time, nothing would have happened any differently.

The fact is that the government of the day exerts far too little control and demands far too little accountability from the secret services, and that's how the spooks and the politicians like it. Freedom for one, instant plausible deniability for the other. Despite all the secret renditions and tortures (perhaps because of them) they still couldn't prevent 7/7 occurring.

 

[alexa]

No far from it. I believe there should be a credible investigation into it in the UK (and US) and those found to have lied and abused their power should be put on trial for treason. It aint gonna happen though.

No, it isn't going to happen. Previous Iraq inquiries have whitewashed Blair, blamed the press and caused a suicide. How far the current Iraq Inquiry will go I do not know. Earlier on in the war when Kennedy was demanding inquiries it seemed to come to we should be having a long inquiry into Britain's history and actions with Iraq in general.

Earlier on the strong feeling was that this situation must be looked at closely and some kind of apparatus put in place to make sure that a Prime Minister could not take us into war by deceiving Parliament, never mind the public in the future.

Problem is the longer it takes, the less strong are people's emotions about it.

Criminal proceedings will not happen, you are right. The very best we can hope for imo is that the situation as it was is recognised.

With regard to the torture, I remember hearing Milliband at the w/e saying of course no British were involved in complicity to torture and being a bit surprised. Then Infinite said an inquiry was going on into this and he did not have great hopes for it. I wrongly thought this was it but it appears to be one pursued by some held at Guantanimo.

For us to be involved in torture disgusts me. I remember Condalesa Rice saying on our tv's something like well times have changed so we have to act differently when being questioned around these subjects. How anyone in anyway involved in anything of this kind could ever imagine they have any kind of morals never mind a high ground on them is beyond me.

We really do need to have something categorically there that absolutely no, not under any conditions do we agree or allow torture.

My point is that if the Conservatives use these "classified" documents and reports to take pot shots at the previous government, then they are not only stupid but not exactly looking at their own past. Plus for a long while the Conservatives backed the Labour government when it came to these issues.

I have a feeling from David Cameron's quote of secrets needing to be kept secret that they probably are quite safe, possibly for the reasons you say. However the Lib/Dems have been very vociferous over wanting the truth about all these things. Their popularity is probably at an all time low. If they could do something there it might help them.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Never, in the field of human logic, has one poster tied himself up in so many knots

Not quite. I've always been an outspoken critic of the New Labour police state - though I do concede the irony in the party being bashed the heaviest by those closer to them, for the only time their heavy-handedness has come in handy in dealing with the only people more self-righteous and dangerous than they are!

The rest of the time it's been misguided and downright traitorous.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Never, in the field of human logic, has one poster tied himself up in so many knots trying to applaud and and s**t on the the same government at the same time --

If there was a "line of the week / post of the week" prize, you'd get it for this post.

Brilliant.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Pity it's got nothing to do with the facts, otherwise I would have to agree that it'd be a class line myself!

Oh the simplicity of the aloof!

 

[Andalublue]

Pity it's got nothing to do with the facts, otherwise I would have to agree that it'd be a class line myself!

Oh the simplicity of the aloof!

Know what frustrates me most about you RoP? It's that you have a great sense of humour, and I'm not being ironic. You do. You remind me a lot of Frank Skinner, great turn of phrase, natural wit, but really f***ed up value system.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Hey, leave off the value system!

It's all there's left of me even halfway near still intact!





Never mind, here's something a little more neutral from my stash to calm you down:



I would speed it up in case you're in a hurry, but as the test tune only lasts 51 seconds anyway, I think we can endure. (And if this bit of RoP-related serenity un-nerves you I could always re-work it about lesbians turning us all into Muslims or something. Just to take us back to more secure ground.)