Little-Acorn
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2006
- Messages
- 216
- Reaction score
- 5
- Location
- San Diego
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
Thought this was a joke when I first heard about it, on the radio driving to work this morning. I'm still not convinced that it isn't a case of the reporter simply getting it wrong. The sheer magnitude of such an act makes it unlikely IMHO that the high officials of the Border Patrol would ever do such a thing. Such an act, during wartime, would be called "high treason". No actual war has been declared here, of course, and today's Minutemen are not acting as part of our nation's armed services. But the phrase "during war or time of invasion" is often used. You can make your own guesses about whether it applies here.
First I need to debunk some obvious "wrong info" in the article. The author quotes US Customs spokesman Mario Martinez as saying it's no secret where the Minutemen will be. But in fact, our pending patrol locations ARE secret - we usually don't find out until the morning of the event. Ironically, this is done more to get away from people on the north side of the border from setting up demonstrations, hassling us etc. - our polite name for such people is "the crazies".
That said, once we set up on the border, it's hardly a secret any more. We set up with colorful tents, canopies, big American flags etc. Our purpose is, in fact, to let the illegal crossers know we are there, and so discouraging them from even trying it.
There's also the tired fib about the Minutemen being "vigilantes", along with talk of violence being done to the illegal crossers. "Vigilantes", of course, are people who take the law into their own hands, detain people, beat them, and even shoot them. Minutemen do none of those things. We sit on (or above
the border, and when we see a potential illegal, we make a phone call to the Border Patrol. That's it. The BP and Customs take it from there, and do whatever arresting etc. is needed.
Well, enough disclaimer sh1t. I'm doing a slow burn over this. It's bad enough that our govt doesn't want to enforce its own laws, which are quite clear about border crossings. But I especially don't appreciate their actively working against regular people who are trying to help those who DO enforce them.
There's also the potential danger aspect of this. Not all the illegals are simple folk trying to find better lives. Some are coyotes, drugrunners, and even terrorists. They haven't made any active moves against us... yet. But tipping them in advance where their opposition is located and when, will certainly help them target us if they ever decide to confront us directly. If it ever happens, I can't say I'll be too kindly disposed toward those who did the tipping.
Our state director Tim Donnelly did an early interview on the radio station I was listening to (AM 760 KFMB, tune into Rick Roberts on their website). He was prety blown away, but he hedged that it might have been a misunderstanding between Martinez and the reporter he was talking to. Donnelly pointed out that, when the MM tip the BP and the BP arrests some illegals, the BP must of course inform the Mexican government that their citizens are in custody, and where they were arrested. From there, it might not be hard for Mexico to put two and two together and figure out where the MM are operating. The article covers some of that. Donnelly wondered out loud if the reporter might have sensationalized such routine info, into a "report" that the US govt is "tipping off" the Mex govt on MM patrol locations. Hmmmm.
Well, I'd certainly like to hear more about this. If someone thinks that "tips" will cause the MM to cease and desist, they couldn't be more wrong. The MM operate completely legally (we bend over backward to make sure of it), we have a right to do what we're doing where we do it, and if some @ss warming a chair somewhere thinks he can shut us down with an anonymous rumor, he is badly mistaken.
Stay tuned.
-------------------------------
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3799653
U.S. tipping Mexico to Minuteman patrols
May 9, 2006
By Sara A. Carter, Staff Writer
While Minuteman civilian patrols are keeping an eye out for illegal border crossers, the U.S. Border Patrol is keeping an eye out for Minutemen -- and telling the Mexican government where they are.
According to three documents on the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations Web site, the U.S. Border Patrol is to notify the Mexican government as to the location of Minutemen and other civilian border patrol groups when they participate in apprehending illegal immigrants -- and if and when violence is used against border crossers.
A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman confirmed the notification process, describing it as a standard procedure meant to reassure the Mexican government that migrants' rights are being observed.
"It's not a secret where the Minuteman volunteers are going to be," Mario Martinez said Monday.
"This ... simply makes two basic statements -- that we will not allow any lawlessness of any type, and that if an alien is encountered by a Minuteman or arrested by the Minuteman, then we will allow that government to interview the person."
Minuteman members were not so sanguine about the arrangement, however, saying that reporting their location to Mexican officials nullifies their effectiveness along the border and could endanger their lives.
"Now we know why it seemed like Mexican officials knew where we were all the time," said Chris Simcox, founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. "It's unbelievable that our own government agency is sending intelligence to another country. They are sending intelligence to a nation where corruption runs rampant, and that could be getting into the hands of criminal cartels.
"They just basically endangered the lives of American people."
Officials with the Mexican consulate in Washington, D.C., could not be reached for comment Monday.
Martinez said reporting the location of immigrant apprehensions to consulate representatives is common practice if an illegal immigrant requests counsel or believes they have been mistreated.
"Once an illegal alien is apprehended, they can request counsel," he said. "We have to give their counsel the information about their apprehension, and that includes where they are apprehended, whether a Minuteman volunteer spotted them or a citizen."
Martinez said Mexico's official perception of the civilian groups is that they are vigilantes, a belief the Border Patrol hoped to allay by entering into the cooperative agreement.
One of the documents on the Web site, "Actions of the Mexican Government in Relation to the Activities of Vigilante Groups," states that Mexican consulate representatives stay in close contact with Border Patrol chiefs to ensure the safety of migrants trying to enter the U.S., those being detained and the actions of all "vigilantes" along the border.
The document also describes a meeting with San Diego Border Patrol sector chief Darryl Griffen.
"(Griffen) said that the Border Patrol will not permit any violence or any actions contrary to the law by the groups, and he is continuously aware of (the volunteer organizations') operations," according to the document. "Mr. Griffen reiterated to the undersecretary his promise to notify the General Consul right away when the vigilantes detain or participate in the detention of any undocumented Mexicans."
The documents specifically named the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps and its patrols, which began monitoring Arizona's southern border in April 2005, as well as Friends of the Border Patrol, a Chino-based nonprofit.
TJ Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a union representing more than 10,000 Border Patrol agents, said agents have complained for years about the Mexican consulate's influence over the agency.
"It worries me (that the Mexican government) seems to be unduly influencing our enforcement policies. That's not a legitimate role for any foreign nation," Bonner said, though he added, "It doesn't surprise me."
The document also mentions locations of field operations of Friends of the Border Patrol, which patrolled the San Diego sector from June to November 2005. Mexican officials had access to the exact location of the group founded by Andy Ramirez, which ran its patrols from the Rough Acre Ranch, a private property in McCain Valley.
(Full text of the article can be read at the above URL)
First I need to debunk some obvious "wrong info" in the article. The author quotes US Customs spokesman Mario Martinez as saying it's no secret where the Minutemen will be. But in fact, our pending patrol locations ARE secret - we usually don't find out until the morning of the event. Ironically, this is done more to get away from people on the north side of the border from setting up demonstrations, hassling us etc. - our polite name for such people is "the crazies".
That said, once we set up on the border, it's hardly a secret any more. We set up with colorful tents, canopies, big American flags etc. Our purpose is, in fact, to let the illegal crossers know we are there, and so discouraging them from even trying it.
There's also the tired fib about the Minutemen being "vigilantes", along with talk of violence being done to the illegal crossers. "Vigilantes", of course, are people who take the law into their own hands, detain people, beat them, and even shoot them. Minutemen do none of those things. We sit on (or above
the border, and when we see a potential illegal, we make a phone call to the Border Patrol. That's it. The BP and Customs take it from there, and do whatever arresting etc. is needed.Well, enough disclaimer sh1t. I'm doing a slow burn over this. It's bad enough that our govt doesn't want to enforce its own laws, which are quite clear about border crossings. But I especially don't appreciate their actively working against regular people who are trying to help those who DO enforce them.
There's also the potential danger aspect of this. Not all the illegals are simple folk trying to find better lives. Some are coyotes, drugrunners, and even terrorists. They haven't made any active moves against us... yet. But tipping them in advance where their opposition is located and when, will certainly help them target us if they ever decide to confront us directly. If it ever happens, I can't say I'll be too kindly disposed toward those who did the tipping.
Our state director Tim Donnelly did an early interview on the radio station I was listening to (AM 760 KFMB, tune into Rick Roberts on their website). He was prety blown away, but he hedged that it might have been a misunderstanding between Martinez and the reporter he was talking to. Donnelly pointed out that, when the MM tip the BP and the BP arrests some illegals, the BP must of course inform the Mexican government that their citizens are in custody, and where they were arrested. From there, it might not be hard for Mexico to put two and two together and figure out where the MM are operating. The article covers some of that. Donnelly wondered out loud if the reporter might have sensationalized such routine info, into a "report" that the US govt is "tipping off" the Mex govt on MM patrol locations. Hmmmm.
Well, I'd certainly like to hear more about this. If someone thinks that "tips" will cause the MM to cease and desist, they couldn't be more wrong. The MM operate completely legally (we bend over backward to make sure of it), we have a right to do what we're doing where we do it, and if some @ss warming a chair somewhere thinks he can shut us down with an anonymous rumor, he is badly mistaken.
Stay tuned.
-------------------------------
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3799653
U.S. tipping Mexico to Minuteman patrols
May 9, 2006
By Sara A. Carter, Staff Writer
While Minuteman civilian patrols are keeping an eye out for illegal border crossers, the U.S. Border Patrol is keeping an eye out for Minutemen -- and telling the Mexican government where they are.
According to three documents on the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations Web site, the U.S. Border Patrol is to notify the Mexican government as to the location of Minutemen and other civilian border patrol groups when they participate in apprehending illegal immigrants -- and if and when violence is used against border crossers.
A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman confirmed the notification process, describing it as a standard procedure meant to reassure the Mexican government that migrants' rights are being observed.
"It's not a secret where the Minuteman volunteers are going to be," Mario Martinez said Monday.
"This ... simply makes two basic statements -- that we will not allow any lawlessness of any type, and that if an alien is encountered by a Minuteman or arrested by the Minuteman, then we will allow that government to interview the person."
Minuteman members were not so sanguine about the arrangement, however, saying that reporting their location to Mexican officials nullifies their effectiveness along the border and could endanger their lives.
"Now we know why it seemed like Mexican officials knew where we were all the time," said Chris Simcox, founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. "It's unbelievable that our own government agency is sending intelligence to another country. They are sending intelligence to a nation where corruption runs rampant, and that could be getting into the hands of criminal cartels.
"They just basically endangered the lives of American people."
Officials with the Mexican consulate in Washington, D.C., could not be reached for comment Monday.
Martinez said reporting the location of immigrant apprehensions to consulate representatives is common practice if an illegal immigrant requests counsel or believes they have been mistreated.
"Once an illegal alien is apprehended, they can request counsel," he said. "We have to give their counsel the information about their apprehension, and that includes where they are apprehended, whether a Minuteman volunteer spotted them or a citizen."
Martinez said Mexico's official perception of the civilian groups is that they are vigilantes, a belief the Border Patrol hoped to allay by entering into the cooperative agreement.
One of the documents on the Web site, "Actions of the Mexican Government in Relation to the Activities of Vigilante Groups," states that Mexican consulate representatives stay in close contact with Border Patrol chiefs to ensure the safety of migrants trying to enter the U.S., those being detained and the actions of all "vigilantes" along the border.
The document also describes a meeting with San Diego Border Patrol sector chief Darryl Griffen.
"(Griffen) said that the Border Patrol will not permit any violence or any actions contrary to the law by the groups, and he is continuously aware of (the volunteer organizations') operations," according to the document. "Mr. Griffen reiterated to the undersecretary his promise to notify the General Consul right away when the vigilantes detain or participate in the detention of any undocumented Mexicans."
The documents specifically named the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps and its patrols, which began monitoring Arizona's southern border in April 2005, as well as Friends of the Border Patrol, a Chino-based nonprofit.
TJ Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a union representing more than 10,000 Border Patrol agents, said agents have complained for years about the Mexican consulate's influence over the agency.
"It worries me (that the Mexican government) seems to be unduly influencing our enforcement policies. That's not a legitimate role for any foreign nation," Bonner said, though he added, "It doesn't surprise me."
The document also mentions locations of field operations of Friends of the Border Patrol, which patrolled the San Diego sector from June to November 2005. Mexican officials had access to the exact location of the group founded by Andy Ramirez, which ran its patrols from the Rough Acre Ranch, a private property in McCain Valley.
(Full text of the article can be read at the above URL)
