U.S., South Korea fail to reach deal to share costs for American troops

[Higgins86]

I think that you are missing the point entirely, Higgins86. The reason so many countries have not been invaded any further in which American soldiers have been stationed is specifically because of the effect of deterrence. Simply put, no one is going to invade a country in which soldiers from a nuclear superpower are based. But one that has no soldiers (such as the Ukraine)? They make far nicer targets.

You can make the argument that Russia only invaded Crimea , Georgia etc because of the mass buildup of US tanks and soldiers in Eastern Europe.

 

[Tigerace117]

Well "if" you do venture out you'll find out yourself....The South Koreans are fully capable of deciding their own fate and defense...Time for the US Military to pack up and leave

Debatable at best.....considering that you still haven't provided any actual evidence that that's what South Koreans want.

It seems that South Korea still wants our help in protecting them from the aggressive neighbor who very much wants to conquer them......and so there is still no reason to abandon a long time friend.

 

[Tigerace117]

You can make the argument that Russia only invaded Crimea , Georgia etc because of the mass buildup of US tanks and soldiers in Eastern Europe.

You can make the argument that had Russia not been so brutal towards its neighbors they wouldn't have been so eager to get US protection.

 

[DaveFagan]

An ad hom solves your problem, does it?

Sounds exactly like a complainer that just wants to whine and whine and whine some more. C'mon, don't be shy, what's your plan, man? I mean you do have one, right? You aren't just gonna cut a shine like that and say...shrug?

Shrug? What did that ever do? I'll tell ya short and sweet...NADA. Unless you got some kinda answer, its just everyday bitching, man.

Answer:Another fly in the ointmment. You wholly accept as fact that the USA is World Policeman. That's bullcrap to provide cover for hegemonic World domination implemented by our MIC. The largest Industry in the USA is the War Industry. The term "World Policeman" is a cover story for reality, Just like "Conspiracy Theory" is a cover story for inconvenient truths. Who profits from covering up/distorting these truths? That's what you really need to know.

You missed the point.
/

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Answer:Another fly in the ointmment. You wholly accept as fact that the USA is World Policeman. That's bullcrap to provide cover for hegemonic World domination implemented by our MIC. The largest Industry in the USA is the War Industry. The term "World Policeman" is a cover story for reality, Just like "Conspiracy Theory" is a cover story for inconvenient truths. Who profits from covering up/distorting these truths? That's what you really need to know.

You missed the point.
/

Dude, your point is unmissable...

The actual point of yours that YOU seem to have totally missed is you really have not a point. You seem to think you have some big revelation to tell us about the now outdated concept of the MIC. Hell, we that study such things have been eyeballing that since we each became individually aware of Ike's farewell address.

And there is certainly merit to some, much, perhaps even most of it, no doubt. Separate from that, however, is that we still have to live in the real world, understand that our "MIC" does not control that real world, not even close.

They, those that have power are money and more power driven ... and are geniuses at getting at that. But in controlling the world they are fumbling, bumbling idiots. And there are, besides our own, very serious predators, evil folks, lurking, acting out there as well.

Being just blanket broad brush generalizing in comic book stereotypes doesn't really help anything. We have to be strong and pushing back even in our inept ways against others, some far more adept than those who we have placed in charge of protecting our interests in much of that recent, post-WW2 past [read or listen to Legacy of Ashes to get an idea ].

Most things the US does are to a general extent in our interests, though skewed often, screwed up interests, granted, not unlike all our competitor predators out there in the real world.

We don't get deeply involved in just any old civil war or dispute, but we often do and very well should have a strong presence in many places if just to influence events to our own direction, to our own benefit. You see, I agree with you and don't trust our government as far as I could physically throw it... but I distrust our enemies governments EVEN MORE.

We are the classical definition of the lesser of two evils.

We clear here?

 

[DaveFagan]

Dude, your point is unmissable...

The actual point of yours that YOU seem to have totally missed is you really have not a point. You seem to think you have some big revelation to tell us about the now outdated concept of the MIC. Hell, we that study such things have been eyeballing that since we each became individually aware of Ike's farewell address.

And there is certainly merit to some, much, perhaps even most of it, no doubt. Separate from that, however, is that we still have to live in the real world, understand that our "MIC" does not control that real world, not even close.

They, those that have power are money and more power driven ... and are geniuses at getting at that. But in controlling the world they are fumbling, bumbling idiots. And there are, besides our own, very serious predators, evil folks, lurking, acting out there as well.

Being just blanket broad brush generalizing in comic book stereotypes doesn't really help anything. We have to be strong and pushing back even in our inept ways against others, some far more adept than those who we have placed in charge of protecting our interests in much of that recent, post-WW2 past [read or listen to Legacy of Ashes to get an idea ].

Most things the US does are to a general extent in our interests, though skewed often, screwed up interests, granted, not unlike all our competitor predators out there in the real world.

We don't get deeply involved in just any old civil war or dispute, but we often do and very well should have a strong presence in many places if just to influence events to our own direction, to our own benefit. You see, I agree with you and don't trust our government as far as I could physically throw it... but I distrust our enemies governments EVEN MORE.

We are the classical definition of the lesser of two evils.

We clear here?

I didn't say the MIC controls the whole World, but it tries. My point was that CT and World Policeman are psycho buzzwords to push the mainstream into a oneness of thought as opposed to critical independent thinking. The point: Who pays the MSM for the space.. Money talks. It is not "we" are the classical definition of the lesser of two evils. "We" are attempting to point the finger at the precise evil. We, the people, are not the lesser of evils because we do not have control. Is it control of minds, wars, business, or whatever? That is where the evil lurks.
/

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I didn't say the MIC controls the whole World, but it tries. My point was that CT and World Policeman are psycho buzzwords to push the mainstream into a oneness of thought as opposed to critical independent thinking. The point: Who pays the MSM for the space.. Money talks. It is not "we" are the classical definition of the lesser of two evils. "We" are attempting to point the finger at the precise evil. We, the people, are not the lesser of evils because we do not have control. Is it control of minds, wars, business, or whatever? That is where the evil lurks.
/

That very well may, or may not, be true ...

But that is some very imprecise finger pointing... at some amorphous blob that you are inexpertly describing here. We, the People, DO have the control. That is, if we in fact truly care, if we truly want that ... as we are the owners, the masters... and the government is still our servant.

If we are too dumb, too inept, too lazy, or are just too complacent and are as a majority willing to look the other way, just as did the German people under Herr Schicklgruber, then we ARE ultimately responsible.

Yet you will have to do better than that if you want anything to change. And just why do you ignore all our enemies... you actually think they are the good guys, that we need not take any decisive actions in the world to maintain our position and our freedoms? Just who are these good guys? We tried withdrawing from the world after WW1, after that racist numbskull Wilson put us in a war against Germany, A-H and the Ottoman Empire... a war we should never have been in...and have had to pay the price ever since.

Now we are inextricably woven into the rest of the world, as the leader of the free world no less, so cannot now simply shirk our duties. But we do need to root out those who do not have the true best interests of the American people at heart, as they will only drag us down.

 

[Saladin4]

No duh Sherlock.



Our defense of rainy day ingrate neighbors and "allies" is hundreds of Billions. So apparently your ignorance is hundreds of times more astounding than even my own, eh?

A great round of guffaws are in order, it would seem. Let the laughing commence.:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo

Still can't decipher your babble.....Barely English

 

[Saladin4]

Debatable at best.....considering that you still haven't provided any actual evidence that that's what South Koreans want.

It seems that South Korea still wants our help in protecting them from the aggressive neighbor who very much wants to conquer them......and so there is still no reason to abandon a long time friend.

It would not be abandoning if they want us to leave......Even South Korea's President has stated that should happen sooner than later....

 

[washunut]

That's a rather big "if".

And there's no real evidence to back it up.

Just replying to what was stated.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Still can't decipher your babble.....Barely English

Well...

My insincere condolences. I "feel your pain", bro. My understanding was that the Blue State education was supposed, at least according to Blue Staters, to be the so much the better, superior. Especially over of our poor poor Southern Red States'.

Yano?

I guess this individual case could be viewed...well, IS rather anecdotal... However, I, personally [ my teaching days are in my rear-view mirror, over now], no longer do such remediation and so am unwilling to assist further... so my guess we will just have to leave it there.

Sad state of affairs I am fully aware, but there you have it.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That very well may, or may not, be true ...

But that is some very imprecise finger pointing... at some amorphous blob that you are inexpertly describing here. We, the People, DO have the control. That is, if we in fact truly care, if we truly want that ... as we are the owners, the masters... and the government is still our servant.

If we are too dumb, too inept, too lazy, or are just too complacent and are as a majority willing to look the other way, just as did the German people under Herr Schicklgruber, then we ARE ultimately responsible.

Yet you will have to do better than that if you want anything to change. And just why do you ignore all our enemies... you actually think they are the good guys, that we need not take any decisive actions in the world to maintain our position and our freedoms? Just who are these good guys? We tried withdrawing from the world after WW1, after that racist numbskull Wilson put us in a war against Germany, A-H and the Ottoman Empire... a war we should never have been in...and have had to pay the price ever since.

Now we are inextricably woven into the rest of the world, as the leader of the free world no less, so cannot now simply shirk our duties. But we do need to root out those who do not have the true best interests of the American people at heart, as they will only drag us down.

Aren't you one of the ones that is always loudly proclaiming how America leapt to the defence of freedom in (amongst other wars) WWI?

Have you ever considered the possible outcomes of WWI if the Brits, French, and Germans had simply been allowed to continue the fight until everyone finally admitted that there was no way that any of them could "win" and the parties had settled back into their prewar positions (most likely mediated by the United States of America) WITHOUT the imposition of the massive (and ruinous) reparations that practically forced the Germans back into WWI v.2.0 (and if they didn't FORCE the Germans into it, they most certainly gave Herr Hitler the needed leg up into power in Germany)?

Please note that I am NOT saying that the United States of America CAUSED WWII, only that it MIGHT not have happened if the then leaders of the US hadn't taken the steps that - at the time - appeared necessary.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Aren't you one of the ones that is always loudly proclaiming how America leapt to the defence of freedom in (amongst other wars) WWI?

Have you ever considered the possible outcomes of WWI if the Brits, French, and Germans had simply been allowed to continue the fight until everyone finally admitted that there was no way that any of them could "win" and the parties had settled back into their prewar positions (most likely mediated by the United States of America) WITHOUT the imposition of the massive (and ruinous) reparations that practically forced the Germans back into WWI v.2.0 (and if they didn't FORCE the Germans into it, they most certainly gave Herr Hitler the needed leg up into power in Germany)?

Please note that I am NOT saying that the United States of America CAUSED WWII, only that it MIGHT not have happened if the then leaders of the US hadn't taken the steps that - at the time - appeared necessary.

Nope, got me confused with someone else.

Not for over 30 plus years now after having studied the war, our entrance into it, many of the folks around Wilson, their motivations, actions and ideas. He was one of the most damaging presidents we have ever had, and he has some stiff competition. I cannot say enough bad about the man, his presidency and the terrible legacy it catalyzed.

Of course I have thought about that, 30 plus years ago as stated above. All that terrrible that, plus all the things that went along with it over here, his putting us on a War Economy which was the template for FDR, his outrageous government thuggery, his obvious racism, the egregious 1st amendment violations, the tremedous set backs under his terms such as a national income tax, the national bank, the screwing with the delicate balance of power by changing to the direct election of Senators... it was just a foul time in governance at the national level in US History.

I have posited for all those years that, had we not become involved in WW1, there very well might not have been a rise of a Schicklgruber to become a Hitler, that they, the original belligerents would have exhausted themselves out on each other just as they had in the past, without any side gaining an overwhelming victory and would have negotiated settlements on the continent much as always in the past, trying to somewhat maintain a balance of power among the belligerent states. That Germany would not have been crushed, no allied boot on its neck, and then its somewhat understandably held grudge against an overbearing set of victors would not have been put into play. Germans would have looked back on the war, been just as disgusted by the massive loss of life, misery and destruction wrought by WW1 as the other major combatants...

But no, Wilson just had to go against our entire history and get us involved. A hateful, overly educated and intelligent yet stupid idiot he was.

There, we agree on something.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Nope, got me confused with someone else.

Not for over 30 plus years now after having studied the war, our entrance into it, many of the folks around Wilson, their motivations, actions and ideas. He was one of the most damaging presidents we have ever had, and he has some stiff competition. I cannot say enough bad about the man, his presidency and the terrible legacy it catalyzed.

Of course I have thought about that, 30 plus years ago as stated above. All that terrrible that, plus all the things that went along with it over here, his putting us on a War Economy which was the template for FDR, his outrageous government thuggery, his obvious racism, the egregious 1st amendment violations, the tremedous set backs under his terms such as a national income tax, the national bank, the screwing with the delicate balance of power by changing to the direct election of Senators... it was just a foul time in governance at the national level in US History.

I have posited for all those years that, had we not become involved in WW1, there very well might not have been a rise of a Schicklgruber to become a Hitler, that they, the original belligerents would have exhausted themselves out on each other just as they had in the past, without any side gaining an overwhelming victory and would have negotiated settlements on the continent much as always in the past, trying to somewhat maintain a balance of power among the belligerent states. That Germany would not have been crushed, no allied boot on its neck, and then its somewhat understandably held grudge against an overbearing set of victors would not have been put into play. Germans would have looked back on the war, been just as disgusted by the massive loss of life, misery and destruction wrought by WW1 as the other major combatants...

But no, Wilson just had to go against our entire history and get us involved. A hateful, overly educated and intelligent yet stupid idiot he was.

There, we agree on something.

Indeed we do.

As an alternate history scenario, I think that it would have played out well.

Mind you the corollary would have been that the US would have "maintained its distance" from the rest of the world and, absent WWII pretty much bankrupting its economic rivals (not to say anything about the slowdown in scientific progress), the US would likely NOT have risen to become the "Leader of the Free World" since France, Germany, and the UK would have assumed that role.

With the US "maintaining its distance" from the rest of the world, then the situation in Mainland Asia would have changed markedly although whether in favour of Japan or of China is too difficult to say (both scenarios could play well).

Thus, the upshot of the US staying out of WWI, could well have been a world wherein the (let's call it) "European Confederacy" and "Japan/China" were the dominant economic forces with "The Empire and Commonwealth" (mostly because it isn't "European"), "Russia" (simply because it is too big to make rational plans to conquer) and "America" being reasonably major players on the periphery.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Indeed we do.

As an alternate history scenario, I think that it would have played out well.

Mind you the corollary would have been that the US would have "maintained its distance" from the rest of the world and, absent WWII pretty much bankrupting its economic rivals (not to say anything about the slowdown in scientific progress), the US would likely NOT have risen to become the "Leader of the Free World" since France, Germany, and the UK would have assumed that role.

With the US "maintaining its distance" from the rest of the world, then the situation in Mainland Asia would have changed markedly although whether in favour of Japan or of China is too difficult to say (both scenarios could play well).

Thus, the upshot of the US staying out of WWI, could well have been a world wherein the (let's call it) "European Confederacy" and "Japan/China" were the dominant economic forces with "The Empire and Commonwealth" (mostly because it isn't "European"), "Russia" (simply because it is too big to make rational plans to conquer) and "America" being reasonably major players on the periphery.

Counterfactuals are not my bag so I cannot/do not/will not spend a lot of time thinking about what might have been "if".

The furthest I will go is to state categorically that it was a huge mistake by Wilson going against our entire history up til that juncture, especially against the sage, proven useful and pragmatic advice of probably our greatest founder/warrior/president, siding against the peoples of many of our ancestors [full disclosure I am of Scottish, German, English and Hungarian descent ] who, from my perspective, were no better no worse, no more innocent nor guilty for this awful War to end all wars.

And I agree, things could have gone way better or way worse due to that change in history. Unintended consequences, positive and negative externalities one can not often foresee or predict occur making it impossible to ever really go down that road not taken.

Happy New Year... sincerely.

 

[prometeus]

...full disclosure I am of Scottish, German, English and Hungarian descent...

Wow, of all things, I would have never pegged you even as part Magyar.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Counterfactuals are not my bag so I cannot/do not/will not spend a lot of time thinking about what might have been "if".

The furthest I will go is to state categorically that it was a huge mistake by Wilson going against our entire history up til that juncture, especially against the sage, proven useful and pragmatic advice of probably our greatest founder/warrior/president, siding against the peoples of many of our ancestors [full disclosure I am of Scottish, German, English and Hungarian descent ] who, from my perspective, were no better no worse, no more innocent nor guilty for this awful War to end all wars.

And I agree, things could have gone way better or way worse due to that change in history. Unintended consequences, positive and negative externalities one can not often foresee or predict occur making it impossible to ever really go down that road not taken.

Happy New Year... sincerely.

And the best back at you.