U.S., South Korea fail to reach deal to share costs for American troops

[Gaugingcatenate]

Canadians are America's closets Ally......The mutual defense is much appreciated...Canada also tends not invade other countries over false information (Iraq) or failed doctrines (Vietnam) or just made up Non sense (Grenada and Panama)...So there is that

Maybe the Canadians are our closest "ally" in actual proximity, but it is more a rainy day relationship oftentimes.

I have engaged with enough Canadian ingrates here on site to know they are not that close in actual friendship nor in real desire to assist the nation [ even just in words, not so much in deeds or even upholding their agreed upon share of their own defense ] that assures, and has done so for at least the last 75 plus years, the freedoms of the rest of the free world.

You have no real clue, it is more than quite apparent, as to the chess board we are required to play to assure those very freedoms for that period. If we act, correctly or inadvertently or even in cases wrongly, the overall impact has been far better than ANY other nation in planetary history. And folks that hate that we act generally are hypocritical in desiring that we be expected to do so when they want us to act... you know, in their stead. Because they are too weak of political and moral character ...or just too weak themselves militarily.

Undeniable [to the sane at least].

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

The US should be throwing full support behind SK in light of the NK conflict. It's foolish to demand them pay more at a time of potential military conflict

Oh yeah?

Think it might be of more importance to a rich nation like South Korea, with tripwire Americans stationed there in a bold expression of friendship and protection [also of mention is all our guys lost forever on their ground defending them against Communist their agressor northern cousins], to do what it as a nation needs and ultimately desires?

It's not OUR direct freedom and potential destruction on the line, it's theirs. Being overly penny wise and pound foolish is ... obviously foolish.

 

[Higgins86]

For......?

For the attack that America will save us all from. Since 9/11 your European bases have acted as forward operating bases for American wars.

 

[Saladin4]

Maybe the Canadians are our closest "ally" in actual proximity, but it is more a rainy day relationship oftentimes.

I have engaged with enough Canadian ingrates here on site to know they are not that close in actual friendship nor in real desire to assist the nation [ even just in words, not so much in deeds or even upholding their agreed upon share of their own defense ] that assures, and has done so for at least the last 75 plus years, the freedoms of the rest of the free world.

You have no real clue, it is more than quite apparent, as to the chess board we are required to play to assure those very freedoms for that period. If we act, correctly or inadvertently or even in cases wrongly, the overall impact has been far better than ANY other nation in planetary history. And folks that hate that we act generally are hypocritical in desiring that we be expected to do so when they want us to act... you know, in their stead. Because they are too weak of political and moral character ...or just too weak themselves militarily.

Undeniable [to the sane at least].

Hard to make out the babble...Try again

 

[Saladin4]

Oh really? How many Koreans under forty did you talk to? There's an absolute ****-ton of people in South Korea. Talking to a handful does not qualify you to declare what "most Koreans" want any more than talking to a waiting room full of people in Chicago would let one figure out what "most Americans want".

The same thing applies to Japan. How many Japanese people have you actually talked to?

There have been plenty of protests all over the place over the past fifty years of so, but when push comes to shove the protestors seem to find out that they don't actually have the support of the people.....and thus the bases stay.

Lots.....Go yourself....The US Military is not wanted or needed there.....It was over 60 years ago the Korean War ended...Time for the US Military to leave...South Koreans want decide for themselves how to deal with their brothers from the North

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Hard to make out the babble...Try again

Too hard being in English, eh?

Nah, that is all the time wasted you will get from me, hell, you will merely somehow slap on your usual mindless "bad white men" comment, anyhow. You know, your "hit single" broken record.

 

[DaveFagan]

So be honest, plain and painfully specific here, Cur...

Are you for "the United States of America" to be out there at our own expense, blood and treasure, in "the name of capitalist freedom" as you put it in another thread denigrating the nation that protects your Canadian butts, as well as defending the rest of the free world...

Or not? Cannot have it both ways, bro.

Another fly in the ointmment. You wholly accept as fact that the USA is World Policeman. That's bullcrap to provide cover for hegemonic World domination implemented by our MIC. The largest Industry in the USA is the War Industry. The term "World Policeman" is a cover story for reality, Just like "Conspiracy Theory" is a cover story for inconvenient truths. Who profits from covering up/distorting these truths? That's what you really need to know.
/

 

[Tigerace117]

For the attack that America will save us all from. Since 9/11 your European bases have acted as forward operating bases for American wars.

The entire point of the bases is to prevent attacks, not allow them so that we can jump in and play hero.

Which they have done a rather good job at.

Especially since they have allowed most of Europe to skimp out on meeting their defense obligations.

 

[Tigerace117]

Lots.....Go yourself....The US Military is not wanted or needed there.....It was over 60 years ago the Korean War ended...Time for the US Military to leave...South Koreans want decide for themselves how to deal with their brothers from the North

"Lots" is not an accurate measurement. There are close to ten million people in Seoul alone. You speaking to fifteen or twenty does not make you qualified to speak for the people of South Korea. It would be one thing if you were actually from South Korea or Japan, but you aren't, and it sounds like you are simply using the people of those countries as a "rubber stamp" so to speak, to support a conclusion that you yourself came to beforehand.

Uh.....the Korean War still isn't over, and despite Trump's.......trumpeting there is no sign that North Korea is really interested in peace. They continued to launch attacks on the South long after 1953 up until very recently.

Sounds like you are the one who wants the US military to go home.....not the South Koreans.

They already have decided....."alone" does not seem to be on their list of desires.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Why, exactly should we abandon a long time ally and friend---

I presume that you are talking about the ROK, which is the southern half of the country of Korea - the country that the President of the United States of America gave tacit approval for Japan to conquer and exploit.

Guess what, the Koreans haven't forgotten that one.

... one who lost plenty of troops fighting in America's wars over the years?

Since the ROK didn't exist prior to August 15, 1948 there isn't any need to look back past that point in time.

So, other than in the Vietnam War (which the US lost [primarily because it was backing a {series of} corrupt, ineffectual, brutal, dictatorship{s} run by people whose religion differed from that of the majority of the population]) exactly which other of "America's wars" has the ROK committed troops to and how many?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

So be honest, plain and painfully specific here, Cur...

Are you for "the United States of America" to be out there at our own expense, blood and treasure, in "the name of capitalist freedom" as you put it in another thread denigrating the nation that protects your Canadian butts, as well as defending the rest of the free world...

Or not? Cannot have it both ways, bro.

Considering that the only country in the world that stands a reasonable chance of being able to invade and conquer Canada is the United States of America - exactly which country is the US "protecting our butts" from?

The US governments have never had any real problem supporting crass, brutal, venal, and corrupt thugs and murders as governments of other countries PROVIDED that those thugs and murderers were willing to ensure that American companies could make a lot of money in their countries. This gives some indication of exactly how high on its list of priorities "defending the rest of the FREE world" (emphasis added) is for the government of the United States of America.

Is "The American Ideal" a good thing? Damn right it is.

Is "The American Dream" a good thing? Damn right it is.

Is what American children are taught that the United States of America stands for a good thing? Damn right it is.

Do the actions of the American government indicate that it REALLY supports "The American Dream", "The American Ideal", or what American children are taught that the United States of America stands for. Sometimes.

Do the actions of the American government indicate that it REALLY supports ensuring that American corporations can make as much money as possible regardless of the effects of that on other countries (or even on the average American)? Frequently.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The entire point of the bases is to prevent attacks, not allow them so that we can jump in and play hero.

Which they have done a rather good job at.

Especially since they have allowed most of Europe to skimp out on meeting their defense obligations.

When the American defence expenditure, per capita, that is ACTUALLY for NATO (currently it's around 1.7% [and there are at least seven other NATO countries that are spending a higher percentage of their GDP on NATO than the US is]) reaches the 2% of GDP that Mr. Trump complains that other countries are not spending, then we'll talk.

 

[JustHanging]

No it would be giving the people of those nations what they want. If Canada wants to send a fleet to protect shipping lanes in the Pacific have at it.

Why? Canada can just ask politely and they'll be allowed to ship their goods. Everyone loves Canadians. Except Trump, and he's just having a fit of jeaousy 'cause Ivanka is eyeing someone else.

Ivanka Trump Looked Thirsty AF While Glancing At Justin Trudeau

 

[Tigerace117]

I presume that you are talking about the ROK, which is the southern half of the country of Korea - the country that the President of the United States of America gave tacit approval for Japan to conquer and exploit.

Guess what, the Koreans haven't forgotten that one.



Since the ROK didn't exist prior to August 15, 1948 there isn't any need to look back past that point in time.

So, other than in the Vietnam War (which the US lost [primarily because it was backing a {series of} corrupt, ineffectual, brutal, dictatorship{s} run by people whose religion differed from that of the majority of the population]) exactly which other of "America's wars" has the ROK committed troops to and how many?

Hate to break it to you, but no such thing actually occurred......

“However, American historians examining official records report no agreement was ever made—the two men discussed current events but came to no new policy or agreement. They both restated the well-known official policies of their own governments. Indeed, Taft was very careful to indicate these were his private opinions, and he was not an official representative of the U.S. government (Taft was Secretary of War, not Secretary of State).[1][4]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft–Katsura_agreement

Not to mention, of course, that you haven’t actually provided any evidence that Koreans actually care about that.....or remember it, for that matter.

The Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq.

But hey, I get it. You are absolutely desperate, clinging to straws.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Considering that the only country in the world that stands a reasonable chance of being able to invade and conquer Canada is the United States of America - exactly which country is the US "protecting our butts" from?

The US governments have never had any real problem supporting crass, brutal, venal, and corrupt thugs and murders as governments of other countries PROVIDED that those thugs and murderers were willing to ensure that American companies could make a lot of money in their countries. This gives some indication of exactly how high on its list of priorities "defending the rest of the FREE world" (emphasis added) is for the government of the United States of America.

Is "The American Ideal" a good thing? Damn right it is.

Is "The American Dream" a good thing? Damn right it is.

Is what American children are taught that the United States of America stands for a good thing? Damn right it is.

Do the actions of the American government indicate that it REALLY supports "The American Dream", "The American Ideal", or what American children are taught that the United States of America stands for. Sometimes.

Do the actions of the American government indicate that it REALLY supports ensuring that American corporations can make as much money as possible regardless of the effects of that on other countries (or even on the average American)? Frequently.

You really don't think about things in anything but a shallow manner, do ya?

Which country would you rather have in the US' stead, standing tall for ourselves and the rest of mankind...oops, that's "peoplekind" in Canada pink ballet tutu talk, right?

Name one, any one... and why. Name one that would actually do it. Of the free, Japan, Germany? France? UK South Korea, Sweden, Denmark, bla bla blah...? Name one.

Your piddling country that will not even get to the 2% minimum GDP to defense budget of our NATO "partners" [ read: orphan wards of the only real adult state ]? Or would you rather it be Russia or China?

I mean we know none of those countries named look out for their own corporate interests, right? Good lord how nice, the bliss it must instill to be so naive. Our corporations have brought wealth to many and prosperity to most of the world. "Capitalist freedom", the most ingenuous system ever devised, has raised standards of living across the planet... look up average life spans and how they have increased across the Earth in just our lifetimes.

I used to enjoy Canada and Canadians... now I can hardly suffer you folks. I am of the growing opinion that we should stop trading with such ingrates altogether. So weak, so untrustworthy and unreliable, such pains in the ass that do not pay their own way but want to pontificate on high like they actually know something of significance.

By the way, if we weren't standing in their way, you folks would have been taken over for land and resources a long time ago. Like you would stand any chance if Russia or China came-a-calling. And yes, we should have done the Canadian peoples a favor and annexed them long ago as well.

Invade? We have a nuclear arsenal protecting your asses from being hit by missiles at any moment. Oh yeah, you got nothing worth hitting.

My bad.

 

[Saladin4]

You really don't think about things in anything but a shallow manner, do ya?

Which country would you rather have in the US' stead, standing tall for ourselves and the rest of mankind...oops, that's "peoplekind" in Canada pink ballet tutu talk, right?

Name one, any one... and why. Name one that would actually do it. Of the free, Japan, Germany? France? UK South Korea, Sweden, Denmark, bla bla blah...? Name one.

Your piddling country that will not even get to the 2% minimum GDP to defense budget of our NATO "partners" [ read: orphan wards of the only real adult state ]? Or would you rather it be Russia or China?

I mean we know none of those countries named look out for their own corporate interests, right? Good lord how nice, the bliss it must instill to be so naive. Our corporations have brought wealth to many and prosperity to most of the world. "Capitalist freedom", the most ingenuous system ever devised, has raised standards of living across the planet... look up average life spans and how they have increased across the Earth in just our lifetimes.

I used to enjoy Canada and Canadians... now I can hardly suffer you folks. I am of the growing opinion that we should stop trading with such ingrates altogether. So weak, so untrustworthy and unreliable, such pains in the ass that do not pay their own way but want to pontificate on high like they actually know something of significance.

By the way, if we weren't standing in their way, you folks would have been taken over for land and resources a long time ago. Like you would stand any chance if Russia or China came-a-calling. And yes, we should have done the Canadian peoples a favor and annexed them long ago as well.

Invade? We have a nuclear arsenal protecting your asses from being hit by missiles at any moment. Oh yeah, you got nothing worth hitting.

My bad.

Canada and the US trade is in the Billions....Your ignorance is astounding...Please continue...We need the laughs

 

[Saladin4]

"Lots" is not an accurate measurement. There are close to ten million people in Seoul alone. You speaking to fifteen or twenty does not make you qualified to speak for the people of South Korea. It would be one thing if you were actually from South Korea or Japan, but you aren't, and it sounds like you are simply using the people of those countries as a "rubber stamp" so to speak, to support a conclusion that you yourself came to beforehand.

Uh.....the Korean War still isn't over, and despite Trump's.......trumpeting there is no sign that North Korea is really interested in peace. They continued to launch attacks on the South long after 1953 up until very recently.

Sounds like you are the one who wants the US military to go home.....not the South Koreans.

They already have decided....."alone" does not seem to be on their list of desires.

Well "if" you do venture out you'll find out yourself....The South Koreans are fully capable of deciding their own fate and defense...Time for the US Military to pack up and leave

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Another fly in the ointmment. You wholly accept as fact that the USA is World Policeman. That's bullcrap to provide cover for hegemonic World domination implemented by our MIC. The largest Industry in the USA is the War Industry. The term "World Policeman" is a cover story for reality, Just like "Conspiracy Theory" is a cover story for inconvenient truths. Who profits from covering up/distorting these truths? That's what you really need to know.
/

Go do your tooting elsewhere, bro. It not only smells but it hurts my eyes.

It's always a dynamic balance that is necessary between too much power and too little. Too little can be fatal in a world of hungry predator alligators chomping at the bit to devour the weak. Too much is almost as dangerous...

And the MIC is yesterday's news, bro. Now its the BGBBMT&AC, big government big business media technology and academic complex.
We need to tame our own, which is totally inept and evil, sure, but we have nominal freedoms at a minimum and, if we truly wanted, could take it back. But we can walk and talk at the same time, our current power keeps the other evil influences at partial bay.

Now go ahead give me your detailed plan for not just complaining about it but plausibly taking back our country and not, at the same time, losing the rest of the world by growing too weak and complacent.

Ready? Set? Go.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Hate to break it to you, but no such thing actually occurred......

I suggest that you look up the meaning of "tacit".

Possibly you would have benefited if you had actually read as far as the

Finally, regarding Korea, Katsura observed that Japanese colonization of Korea was a matter of absolute importance, as he considered Korea to have been a direct cause of the just-concluded Russo-Japanese War. Katsura stated that a comprehensive solution of the Korea problem would be the war's logical outcome. Katsura further stated that, if left alone, Korea would continue to improvidently enter into agreements and treaties with other powers, which he said created the original problem. Therefore, Katsura stated that Japan must take steps to prevent Korea from again creating conditions which would force Japan into fighting another foreign war.

For his part, Taft concurred that the establishment of a Japanese protectorate over Korea would directly contribute to stability in East Asia. Taft also expressed his belief that President Roosevelt would concur in his views in this regard.
​

bit in your linked article.

The Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq.

But hey, I get it. You are absolutely desperate, clinging to straws.

The ROK (population 51,446,201) sent a 154 person medical team to the Gulf War and those troops were there from February of 1991 all the way through to April of 1991. They suffered no fatalities.

In contrast Canada sent over 4,500 troops (not all at the same time) to the Gulf War.

The ROK sent a total of 5,082 (not all at the same time) troops to Afghanistan and those troops suffered a total of 2 fatalities.

In contrast, Canada (population 37,242,571) has provided over 40,000 troops (not all at the same time) to "fight America's wars" and has suffered 158 fatalities in doing so. Adjusting for population size, Canada has had roughly 109 times as many people killed (committing suicide not being counted) to "fight America's wars" than the ROK has.

The ROK sent 2,000 troops to Iraq as peacekeepers and engineers. Those troops suffered 1 fatality (he committed suicide).

In contrast Canada's indirect contribution to the American war effort in Iraq – ships (approximate crew size - total - 1,000) and exchange officers (roughly 100) – exceeded that of all but three other countries that were formally part of the coalition.

You might also want to take note of the fact that, while Mr. Trump is in the process of "getting out of Dodge" in Iraq, Canadians continue to support and train the Iraqis.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You really don't think about things in anything but a shallow manner, do ya?

Which country would you rather have in the US' stead, standing tall for ourselves and the rest of mankind...oops, that's "peoplekind" in Canada pink ballet tutu talk, right?

Name one, any one... and why. Name one that would actually do it. Of the free, Japan, Germany? France? UK South Korea, Sweden, Denmark, bla bla blah...? Name one.

Your piddling country that will not even get to the 2% minimum GDP to defense budget of our NATO "partners" [ read: orphan wards of the only real adult state ]? Or would you rather it be Russia or China?

I mean we know none of those countries named look out for their own corporate interests, right? Good lord how nice, the bliss it must instill to be so naive. Our corporations have brought wealth to many and prosperity to most of the world. "Capitalist freedom", the most ingenuous system ever devised, has raised standards of living across the planet... look up average life spans and how they have increased across the Earth in just our lifetimes.

I used to enjoy Canada and Canadians... now I can hardly suffer you folks. I am of the growing opinion that we should stop trading with such ingrates altogether. So weak, so untrustworthy and unreliable, such pains in the ass that do not pay their own way but want to pontificate on high like they actually know something of significance.

By the way, if we weren't standing in their way, you folks would have been taken over for land and resources a long time ago. Like you would stand any chance if Russia or China came-a-calling. And yes, we should have done the Canadian peoples a favor and annexed them long ago as well.

Invade? We have a nuclear arsenal protecting your asses from being hit by missiles at any moment. Oh yeah, you got nothing worth hitting.

My bad.

Such a delight to read so thoughtful and well composed a post.

 

[DaveFagan]

Go do your tooting elsewhere, bro. It not only smells but it hurts my eyes.

It's always a dynamic balance that is necessary between too much power and too little. Too little can be fatal in a world of hungry predator alligators chomping at the bit to devour the weak. Too much is almost as dangerous...

And the MIC is yesterday's news, bro. Now its the BGBBMT&AC, big government big business media technology and academic complex.
We need to tame our own, which is totally inept and evil, sure, but we have nominal freedoms at a minimum and, if we truly wanted, could take it back. But we can walk and talk at the same time, our current power keeps the other evil influences at partial bay.

Now go ahead give me your detailed plan for not just complaining about it but plausibly taking back our country and not, at the same time, losing the rest of the world by growing too weak and complacent.

Ready? Set? Go.

I'm not surprised. Reality is like a thump up side the noodle to mainstream non thinkers. It's usually the head, not the eyes.
/

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Canada and the US trade is in the Billions....Your ignorance is astounding...Please continue...We need the laughs

No duh Sherlock.



Our defense of rainy day ingrate neighbors and "allies" is hundreds of Billions. So apparently your ignorance is hundreds of times more astounding than even my own, eh?

A great round of guffaws are in order, it would seem. Let the laughing commence.:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Such a delight to read so thoughtful and well composed a post.

I know, wish I could say the same.

 

[Felis Leo]

For the attack that America will save us all from. Since 9/11 your European bases have acted as forward operating bases for American wars.

I think that you are missing the point entirely, Higgins86. The reason so many countries have not been invaded any further in which American soldiers have been stationed is specifically because of the effect of deterrence. Simply put, no one is going to invade a country in which soldiers from a nuclear superpower are based. But one that has no soldiers (such as the Ukraine)? They make far nicer targets.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I'm not surprised. Reality is like a thump up side the noodle to mainstream non thinkers. It's usually the head, not the eyes.
/

An ad hom solves your problem, does it?

Sounds exactly like a complainer that just wants to whine and whine and whine some more. C'mon, don't be shy, what's your plan, man? I mean you do have one, right? You aren't just gonna cut a shine like that and say...shrug?

Shrug? What did that ever do? I'll tell ya short and sweet...NADA. Unless you got some kinda answer, its just everyday bitching, man.