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U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

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Then how close is too close? Three blocks is too close but four is ok?

How about far enough away that debris and body parts didn't fly through the windows. Is that ok?
 
Do you mean this CAIR?



The same CAIR tho compiled and submitted this petition against Muslims who commit terrorism in the name of Islam:



That CAIR?

Actually, it would be this CAIR

One indication came in October 1998, when the group demanded the removal of a Los Angeles billboard describing Osama bin Laden as "the sworn enemy," finding this depiction "offensive to Muslims."

The same year, CAIR denied bin Laden's responsibility for the twin East African embassy bombings. As Hooper saw it, those explosions resulted from some vague "misunderstandings of both sides." (A New York court, however, blamed bin Laden's side alone for the embassy blasts.)

In 2001, CAIR denied his culpability for the Sept. 11 massacre, saying only that "if [note the "if"] Osama bin Laden was behind it, we condemn him by name." (Only in December was CAIR finally embarrassed into acknowledging his role.)

Siraj Wahhaj, unindicted and on CAIR's advisory board.
CAIR consistently defends other militant Islamic terrorists too. The conviction of the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing it deemed "a travesty of justice." The conviction of Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheikh who planned to blow up New York City landmarks, it called a "hate crime." The extradition order for suspected Hamas terrorist Mousa Abu Marook it labeled "anti-Islamic" and "anti-American."

Not surprisingly, CAIR also backs those who finance terrorism. When President Bush closed the Holy Land Foundation in December for collecting money he said was "used to support the Hamas terror organization," CAIR decried his action as "unjust" and "disturbing."

CAIR even includes at least one person associated with terrorism in its own ranks. On Feb. 2, 1995, U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White named Siraj Wahhaj as one of the "unindicted persons who may be alleged as co-conspirators" in the attempt to blow up New York City monuments. Yet CAIR deems him "one of the most respected Muslim leaders in America" and includes him on its advisory board.."


CAIR: 'Moderate' friends of terror :: Daniel Pipes

Earlier this month, five Palestinian brothers were convicted in federal court of conspiring to use their Texas-based computer company to make illegal shipments of high-tech goods to Libya and Syria, two nations the State Department considers sponsors of terrorism. One of the brothers, Ghassan Elashi, the company's vice president of international marketing, was convicted of three counts of conspiracy, one count of money laundering and two counts of making false statements about the shipments. Mr. Elashi, along with two of his brothers, also faces a separate federal trial on charges relating to business dealings with Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy political leader of the terrorist organization Hamas. Mr. Elashi is also the founding board member of a Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) chapter in Texas, according to the Dallas Morning News. In February 2003, the Muslim Legal Fund held a fund-raiser for the Elashi brothers, hoping to raise $500,000 for their defense. As the Morning News reported then, two of the Fund's board of directors had ties to CAIR...

Last July, Rabih Haddad was deported to Lebanon after being arrested and held by federal agents during a raid on the Global Relief Foundation, which billed itself as a charitable organization. According to the Treasury Department the organization "has connections to, has provided support for, and has provided assistance to Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda network, and other known terrorist groups." A co-founder of the Global Relief Foundation, Haddad was also a fund-raiser for the Ann Arbor CAIR chapter. Following the September 11 attacks, CAIR had a link on its Web site for persons to donate through the Global Relief Foundation. After federal agents shut down Global Relief in December 2001, CAIR removed the link from its Web site, according to Frontpagemag.com.

Also in December 2001, federal agents shut down the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, an Islamic "charity," for raising millions of dollars for Hamas. In the aftermath of September 11, CAIR featured the Holy Land Foundation on its Web site. The Holy Land Foundation was founded by Hamas deputy Marzook (who is now believed to be in Syria). Ghassan Elashi was once its chairman.

Considering all of the above, it's little wonder that a cloud of suspicion has hung over CAIR since September 11. The Washington-based organization, which has described itself as a "Muslim NAACP," does itself no favors by failing to condemn these criminals when they are convicted; indeed, in numerous cases, it has continued to actively defend them. After the Elashi convictions, for example, Khalil Meek, who serves on the board of directors of the Dallas-Fort Worth chapter of CAIR, said: "We believe that these convictions indicate a growing disparity and climate of injustice for Muslims, who we feel are being selectively prosecuted and given unfair sentences precisely because they are Muslim or Arab ... This is not justice." CAIR also labeled the government's handling of the Royer case "draconian." Such statements are part of CAIR's dishonest campaign to create the sense of a widespread inquisition against Muslims and Arabs in America that simply doesn't exist.


CAIR and terrorism - Washington Times



Thats a good one though "objective" voice. I've never seen someone defend a group where its own leaders were arrested and convicted for sponsoring terrorism. Nice one. :D
 
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Daniel Pipes, now there is a reliable source...
 
Do you mean this CAIR?



The same CAIR tho compiled and submitted this petition against Muslims who commit terrorism in the name of Islam:



That CAIR?
1.*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic ... [New Window]
CAIR's Top Radical Terrorist Supporter & Shameless Exploiter Of Muslim Youth For ..... of a HAMAS-linked charity known as the Al Aqsa Educational Fund. ...
*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic Relations
2.Council on American-Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free ... [New Window]
Annual banquets, through which CAIR raises the majority of its funds, are attended by ..... Hamas: Politics, Charity, and Terrorism in the Service of Jihad, ...
Council on American-Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3.Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development - Wikipedia, the ... [New Window]
The Holy Land Foundation was the largest Islamic charity in the United States. ... organization for funding Hamas and other "Islamic terrorist organizations". .... of the Texas branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), ...
Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
4.CAIR: Islamists Fooling the Establishment :: Middle East Quarterly [New Window]
CAIR has also consistently defended other radical Islamic terrorists. ... Its extensive ties to far-left groups include funding from the Tides Foundation .... of the Saudi charity Al-Haramain Foundation[97]—despite that organization's ...
CAIR: Islamists Fooling the Establishment :: Middle East Quarterly
5.CAIR's Funding • CAIR was founded in part with donations from the ... [New Window]
for aiding and abetting a terrorist organization. 16. Nonetheless, CAIR .... Laden identified MWL as one of three Muslim charities that provided the primary ...
http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/110.pdf
6.FrontPage Magazine - CAIR: How Close to Terrorism? [New Window]
For example, just after the Islamic terrorist attacks of 9/11, the CAIR website ... another “Islamic charity” closed down for funding terrorism by the US ...
http://97.74.65.51/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=C0E4B1A6-C9C5-49AF-88A7-A7AE6BC85CD9
7.FrontPage Magazine - CAIR Founded by “Islamic Terrorists”? [New Window]
Jul 28, 2005 ... Terrorists themselves don't literally give out money, but organizations that fund terrorism also fund CAIR. The Saudi-based Islamic ...
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=7803
8.Savage_CAIR_suit [New Window]
... British-funded Islamic charity of being front for terrorists,' May 31, ..... all over the world; the racketeering activity conducted by CAIR funds that ...

Yea, I guess that's them.
 
I completely support this ad campaign. For too long people have been accusing the peace loving Muslims of not speaking out enough. Now what are they going to say? They're speaking out because they are sick of your hate.

Watching the video made me a bit sad. I am reminded of the friends I had growing up, one of whom was Muslim. His family was so nice to me, and I'm white, and non-religious. I can't imagine them being subjected to the kind of hate mongering that we are now seeing.

People really are sheep. The pundits on television tell them to hate Islam and they just do it. Please use your brain. There are real human beings who are on the line here.
 
I completely support this ad campaign. For too long people have been accusing the peace loving Muslims of not speaking out enough. Now what are they going to say? They're speaking out because they are sick of your hate.

Watching the video made me a bit sad. I am reminded of the friends I had growing up, one of whom was Muslim. His family was so nice to me, and I'm white, and non-religious. I can't imagine them being subjected to the kind of hate mongering that we are now seeing.

People really are sheep. The pundits on television tell them to hate Islam and they just do it. Please use your brain. There are real human beings who are on the line here.

People can oppose the building of the mosque without hating muslims.
There are just too many red flags going up about it.
I don't think all Muslims should be condemned for the actions of a few. However, those few have killed thousands of Americans.
 
People can oppose the building of the mosque without hating muslims.
There are just too many red flags going up about it.
I don't think all Muslims should be condemned for the actions of a few. However, those few have killed thousands of Americans.

Please, give me a break. The vast majority of the rationalizations for protesting the "mosque" are based on ignorant, hateful misunderstandings that are being fueled by t.v. personalities who are vying for power. You can't even say that it's not a mosque, but a community centre, or that it's not even at ground zero, without being called a leftist or an apologist for Islam. The debate is reaching sickening proportions.

The mob has the right to their opinion, I am just sick of hearing it. I am sick of seeing 10 threads about it, and I am sick of even hearing about it in Canadian news. I don't ****ing care what these childish ignoramouses think, so get out of my face about it.
 
How about Muslims becoming *TOLERANT* of homosexuals?

Why not Muslims, Muslim organizations, Imams and Islamic centers around the nation step up and stop the *persecution* of gays and lesbians?

Why don't Muslims protest in front of the Saudi embassy, the U.N. and other human right's abusers and *demand* that GLBT persecution end?
Shhhh, don't tell anyone but I've heard that Dubai has some of the best Gay nightclubs in the Middle East. What else are the men going to do since the women are sequestered away?
 
Would love that moron sgt.rock to see this.

Don't you realise this is just part of the creeping revolution, marxist style, to put Sharia law in America, by denying they support terrorists, they are really saying they support terrorists, how can you not see that? :mrgreen:
 
How about far enough away that debris and body parts didn't fly through the windows. Is that ok?
Ok, so does that mean that ANY building hit by ANY debris is off-limits, because that's half of New York right there.

Or is there a size gradient?

And how do we know a building ACTUALLY got hit with debris?
 
Ok, so does that mean that ANY building hit by ANY debris is off-limits, because that's half of New York right there.

Or is there a size gradient?

And how do we know a building ACTUALLY got hit with debris?

Or more specifically that bodies flew through the windows?

Can you prove that Tex?

Hey what if that Mosque 5 blocks away got hit with Debris? Should we tear that down because it immediately became part of the No Muslim Zone?
 
Because someone has chosen Islam as a religion does not make him a terrorist, any more than someone choosing Christianity does. Do we blame Christianity for the Mississippi Burning episode of American history, or the bombing in Oklahoma City?

I was going to try really hard and respond positively to your good post but....

GOD DAMNIT

Seriously Dan, I can't begin to count now the number of threads I've confronted you on this pure bull**** of continually attempting to throw out the OKC as an analog to 9/11 in regards to Christians = Terrorism / Muslims = Terrorism.

McVeigh was a self proclaimed agnostic who had claimed science was his religion and stated that he had long ago lost touch with his Christian roots. His issues with the government were rooted in no way in his christian beliefs. Stop with this blatant and pathetic dishonesty that does nothing but detract from your message by its glaring inaccuracy that shines like a neon sign everytime you use it.

People doing as you've been doing for the past weeks on this forum....Godwining threads, making ridiculously hyberbolic comparisons, throwing out just blatantly inaccurate comparisons, etc...all in the attempt to demonize the other side and go two steps beyond simply defending against idiocy to absolutely attempting to obfuscate reality help CAUSE the issues and the divide and the schism that exists in America with relation to muslims.
 
I completely support this ad campaign. For too long people have been accusing the peace loving Muslims of not speaking out enough. Now what are they going to say? They're speaking out because they are sick of your hate.

Wonderful.

9/11 attacks don't cause it, Madrid attacks don't cause it, brutal televised beheadings don't cause it, but people speaking out against a place of worship within the vicinity of ground zero causes Muslims to speak out....against bigoted Americans.

I don't know, somehow I don't think this is what a lot of people were talking about in regards to moderate muslims speaking up.

I like the idea of the ad campaign, but frankly I don't know how much good it will do. It reminds me of the Truth commericials or other sort of things that are so late coming, and so miss the mark, that it doesn't do much or actually just exasserbates the issue.
 
1.*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic ... [New Window]
CAIR's Top Radical Terrorist Supporter & Shameless Exploiter Of Muslim Youth For ..... of a HAMAS-linked charity known as the Al Aqsa Educational Fund. ...
*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic Relations
2.Council on American-Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free ... [New Window]
Annual banquets, through which CAIR raises the majority of its funds, are attended by ..... Hamas: Politics, Charity, and Terrorism in the Service of Jihad, ...
Council on American-Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3.Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development - Wikipedia, the ... [New Window]
The Holy Land Foundation was the largest Islamic charity in the United States. ... organization for funding Hamas and other "Islamic terrorist organizations". .... of the Texas branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), ...
Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
4.CAIR: Islamists Fooling the Establishment :: Middle East Quarterly [New Window]
CAIR has also consistently defended other radical Islamic terrorists. ... Its extensive ties to far-left groups include funding from the Tides Foundation .... of the Saudi charity Al-Haramain Foundation[97]—despite that organization's ...
CAIR: Islamists Fooling the Establishment :: Middle East Quarterly
5.CAIR's Funding • CAIR was founded in part with donations from the ... [New Window]
for aiding and abetting a terrorist organization. 16. Nonetheless, CAIR .... Laden identified MWL as one of three Muslim charities that provided the primary ...
http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/110.pdf
6.FrontPage Magazine - CAIR: How Close to Terrorism? [New Window]
For example, just after the Islamic terrorist attacks of 9/11, the CAIR website ... another “Islamic charity” closed down for funding terrorism by the US ...
http://97.74.65.51/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=C0E4B1A6-C9C5-49AF-88A7-A7AE6BC85CD9
7.FrontPage Magazine - CAIR Founded by “Islamic Terrorists”? [New Window]
Jul 28, 2005 ... Terrorists themselves don't literally give out money, but organizations that fund terrorism also fund CAIR. The Saudi-based Islamic ...
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=7803
8.Savage_CAIR_suit [New Window]
... British-funded Islamic charity of being front for terrorists,' May 31, ..... all over the world; the racketeering activity conducted by CAIR funds that ...

Yea, I guess that's them.

Okay...just checking. You see, I'd never heard of them before. So, when I did an online search for them and found that information on their website, I merely wanted to know if that was the same organization (parent or some form of subsidiary) some have been referring to.

I do find it odd that they'd defend the actions of known or suspected terrorist, terror organizations or suspected supporters of terrorism one minute (at least up until late 2001) and then apparently do such an about face as their petition seems to lend itself to.

Thats a good one though "objective" voice. I've never seen someone defend a group where its own leaders were arrested and convicted for sponsoring terrorism. Nice one. :D

As I said, I wasn't defending them. I'd never heard of them before and was inquiring about them to see if it was the same organization.
 
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People doing as you've been doing for the past weeks on this forum....Godwining threads, making ridiculously hyberbolic comparisons, throwing out just blatantly inaccurate comparisons, etc...all in the attempt to demonize the other side and go two steps beyond simply defending against idiocy to absolutely attempting to obfuscate reality help CAUSE the issues and the divide and the schism that exists in America with relation to muslims.

So, what do you suggest as a solution to the image problem, as well as the apparent hatred that is being misdirected at American-Muslims who say infactically they denouce terrorism and want no part of it yet are now being "targetted" (for lack of a better word) just for their religious faith?
 
To be honest I think it's sad that a group of people had to make an add basically saying "don't hate us, we aren't your enemy." However, I also don't blame the media for people hating Muslims. I don't really see the media fueling any of that, in fact I think it does the opposite. I also noticed that the majority of women in the video were wearing burkas. I disagree very much with the Islamic religion, but I know they are normal people like us who simply share a different faith. I think people hate Islam because of what Islamic theocracies do, like oppressing gays, people from other religions, and womens' rights. I think they project those things onto all Muslims, and that's where the conflict comes from.
 
So when are they going to release the video where they denouce terrorism and support Israel's right to exist?

Until I see that, this is meaningless to me.
 
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What you are quoting about Imam Rauf's donations and statements are inaccurate and exaggerations being perpetrated by those who would restrict the rights of those to practice their religion.

The sensitivies of the families of victims are certainly fair. However, instead of the way this is being played out, why don't they sit down with the developers of the mosque and address their concerns until everyone is satisfied.

This was announced as a plan in December of 2009 and made front page New York Times news.

If find disingenous that it's become a concern only recently.

Additionally, the single largest donor supporting the mosque is also the 2nd largest shareholder in Fox Newscorp.
News Corp’s number-two shareholder funded ‘terror mosque’ planner - Yahoo! News

So, if this is a "terror mosque", what does that say about Fox News?



because the Imam refuses.
 
So when are they going to release the video where they denouce terrorism and support Israel's right to exist?

Until I see that, this is meaningless to me.

facepalm.gif
 
Pretty cute for an irrelevant Canadian.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Cease the personal insults
 
So, what do you suggest as a solution to the image problem, as well as the apparent hatred that is being misdirected at American-Muslims who say infactically they denouce terrorism and want no part of it yet are now being "targetted" (for lack of a better word) just for their religious faith?

I have no clue for sure what the solution to the image problem is. The fact the problem has been there for so long now doesn't help it either. I think having more moderate muslims who aren't pushing the virtues of Sharia law or don't just disagree with the tactics but also the reasons behind the terrorist attacks coming out and making an active, concentrated effort on getting media attention would be a great start. This is as much the fault of the media in simply not wanting to run with such stories when they're presented as well. Hateful bigoted white people was a much better story for their purposes than moderate muslims speaking out, in terms of the mosque situation. The face of Islam in America needs to be these more moderate westernized Muslims rather than your CAIR types.

I think also being realistic to the world we're living in would be helpful to it. Yes, the people that take a terrorist attack to use as a spring board for "all muslims as terrorists" are stupid. Those who from moment one attempt to obfuscate, excuse, and completely divorce the religious attachements to the acts when they happen ALSO are being stupid as it just further ferments the negative feelings in those who are not all the way on the "crazy" side of "hating muslims" but do frankly have some issues with the culture surrounding it and the way our culture interacts with it. Correct those that stupidly try to make the ignorant assertions but at the same time don't go so far the other way trying to wash the truth away to make it appear you're afraid of it. Say all muslims aren't terrorist, however this one was, and I believe his actiosn and reasonins were wrong and his justifications through Islam faulty erronious."

Understand that right now, whether its right or not, it IS a touchy subject for many Americans. It IS something that affects thier minds. And just like its tactless to joke about rape around a rape victim even if you weren't the perpetrator, be mindful of some general tact. This does not mean to be walked over, but one must ask themselves if bllheaded stubborn adherance to their principles at the most stringent and unbending level is the absolute only thing that is important. Or, if it is also important to foster understanding, a realization that Muslims American's are simply Americans and not some strange subset, and to better help over all public perception. And if those latter things are also important than for a time bend on your principles slightly, not enough to where it would cause a break and not in places where you don't think the benefit is worth it, but at times when not bending will do more harm to the above things then good with little tru benefit other than the ability to say "I didn't change!" then prehaps a bit of wiggle room should be given.

I think however that constantly throwing down broadsweeping "bigot" cards anytime someones bothered by something just reenforces the negative views. I think never managing a very loud push to condemn the terrorists methods and intent, without using it to doubly scold people as being bigots who don't realize how great Islam REALLY is, but then making a big deal about a commerical where people are "finally standing up"...and they're standing up to people being negative towards them...doesn't really help the issue. I think attempting to close ones eyes to facts about various situations because of a fear that if one actually deals with them realistically that its just going to give more ammo for the crazies to go "See we're right" ends up just turning those in the middle off of your points as much as the crazies turn them off.
 
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