• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. considering controlling exports to Russia if there is an invasion of Ukraine

H B Lowrey

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2021
Messages
2,171
Reaction score
650
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I was being facetious with the term "former glory." I think it was more that life in the USSR was bad, but the aftermath was far worse.

All I am really doing is repeating when I heard while I was in Ukraine. I was full of questions, and so I am just repeating what some folks told me. The 1990s were remembered as a brutal time economically--empty shelves, high inflation, plummeting GDP, low investment--and despite how bad things were in Russia, they were even worse in Ukraine. And that decade scarred the older generations, where some view the dissolution of the USSR as a huge mistake. In other words: Look what Gorbachev did to us!

University students, on the other hand, are unencumbered by and uninterested in the 1990s. They love American music, the TV show Friends, iPhones, and for some reason Alf, if you can believe that. Oh, and visiting America, especially New York City. Or moving there for good.

The generational divide is immense.
Here as well. Our generation that went through the depression are going or gone. Same for the lessons that were once leaned about allowing wealth to become too concentrated. We're there yet again to relearn some things.
 

MaryP

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2018
Messages
18,795
Reaction score
10,726
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
The 1990s were remembered as a brutal time economically--empty shelves, high inflation, plummeting GDP, low investment--and despite how bad things were in Russia, they were even worse in Ukraine. And that decade scarred the older generations, where some view the dissolution of the USSR as a huge mistake. In other words: Look what Gorbachev did to us
That makes perfect sense. Known the world over as "It's the economy, stupid."

Nice to know the young are ready to move on. Hope it won't be too late for them.

And I'm glad to hear you're not in Ukraine right now!
 

Colin Norris

Banned
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
1,347
Reaction score
388
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate

A big goal of this move is to keep new iphones out of Russia. In my opinion, this is a big deal. Russians love love love love their iphones. There is no phenomenon like it in America. It is difficult to underestimate their role as a status symbol in that part of the world.

If Russians learned that Putin's sabre-rattling toward Ukraine caused America to take away its iphones?

Anyone with a child and a cookie jar on top of the refrigerator knows what that would be like.

Find American goods that Russians actually value and take them away, thereby eroding Putin's support. Love it.
Mobile phones???
How backward are you to think that will restrict them?
Have you ever heard of the real reason a war is immanent but you reaction us to stop exporting phones. Vlad must be trembling now he knows that.
You have to be kidding.
 

MaryP

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2018
Messages
18,795
Reaction score
10,726
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
Mobile phones???
How backward are you to think that will restrict them?
Have you ever heard of the real reason a war is immanent but you reaction us to stop exporting phones. Vlad must be trembling now he knows that.
You have to be kidding.
Yakshi isn't the only one who thought of it:

The Biden administration is considering controlling exports related to semiconductors to harm Russian industries, should Russia invade Ukraine, a senior administration official confirmed to CBS News. The move could be done in a way to keep new smartphones and other technology from Russian citizens.

Specifically, the administration is threatening to use the foreign direct product rule to deprive Russia of semiconductor technology, the official confirmed, since virtually all semiconductors are designed with U.S. software and parts. The U.S. is working with European and Asian allies to make a rule that would keep essential components from industries Russian President Vladimir Putin needs to grow the Russian economy, like artificial intelligence and aerospace.
 

Colin Norris

Banned
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
1,347
Reaction score
388
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Yakshi isn't the only one who thought of it:

The Biden administration is considering controlling exports related to semiconductors to harm Russian industries, should Russia invade Ukraine, a senior administration official confirmed to CBS News. The move could be done in a way to keep new smartphones and other technology from Russian citizens.

Specifically, the administration is threatening to use the foreign direct product rule to deprive Russia of semiconductor technology, the official confirmed, since virtually all semiconductors are designed with U.S. software and parts. The U.S. is working with European and Asian allies to make a rule that would keep essential components from industries Russian President Vladimir Putin needs to grow the Russian economy, like artificial intelligence and aerospace.
Do you really believe he wouldn't be aware of that? How stupid do you think they ARE?
Don't you think he can get those from China, their ally?
Seriously? You must be kidding.
 

highroller

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
3,753
Reaction score
1,962
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
What exactly is the end goal of the Russians in taking the Ukraine? Further annexation of all or some of it? Taking Kiev and installing a Kremlin-friendly autocrat like was done in Chechnya? Ukraine has a population of 44 million against Russia's 144 million. This isn't a miniscule country like Georgia with a population of less than 4 million, or Chechnya with its population less than 1.5 million. Their army will punch through the Ukrainian battle lines like a bullet through a beer can. But then what? What else will there be but a massive suppurating guerilla war to drain the blood and what little treasure remains of a massive country like Russia whose GDP is less than that of Italy's?
Maybe they want the women?
 

MaryP

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2018
Messages
18,795
Reaction score
10,726
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
Do you really believe he wouldn't be aware of that? How stupid do you think they ARE?
Don't you think he can get those from China, their ally?
Seriously? You must be kidding.
I guess you don't think that would work, huh? What will work, in your estimation? (It might not be as crazy an idea as you think if the US govt. is considering it.)
 

wellwisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
1,426
Reaction score
596
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative

A big goal of this move is to keep new iphones out of Russia. In my opinion, this is a big deal. Russians love love love love their iphones. There is no phenomenon like it in America. It is difficult to underestimate their role as a status symbol in that part of the world.

If Russians learned that Putin's sabre-rattling toward Ukraine caused America to take away its iphones?

Anyone with a child and a cookie jar on top of the refrigerator knows what that would be like.

Find American goods that Russians actually value and take them away, thereby eroding Putin's support. Love it.
President Biden has Quid Pro Quo's with Ukraine and with China through his middleman son; Hunter. This strategy above works out for Biden. If Biden can limit trade with Russia, this gesture will satisfy the needs of his business buddies; China and Ukraine. Ukraine gets more security and maybe extra funding, while China gets to replace USA in the Russian Semiconductor and computer markets. Once that is set, China can better spy on Russia, like it does in the USA. China does not trust Russia and vice versa so extra ability to snoop on Russia would make Biden rich.

My fear is the Democrats, being so low on the polls, may also think they need a war to act like they are important. One can already see the propaganda machine of the Democrat party; main stream media; testing the waters and singing the needed tune in ten part harmony; all saying the same thing. This bunch has little concern for the people doing the fighting, but rather sees the increased donations coming from military contractors and a chance to act "Presidential", as a means to increase poll numbers. The propaganda machine will need to hype everything as an accomplishment.

The arrangement with military contractors is not organic with the Democrat party, since they always say they hate war as a distraction. Rather it has been historically set up as a money laundering scam, where their campaign donation cut is already defined before the money is allocated. This scam is not new to the Democrats since the teachers Unions work by the same deal. They are paid tax payer dollars, by the government, with the Democrat kickback; union donations, already worked out up front, via the money laundering scam with the teachers's union. Tax payers need better protections.
 
Last edited:

highroller

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
3,753
Reaction score
1,962
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
President Biden has Quid Pro Quo's with Ukraine and with China through his middleman son; Hunter. This strategy above works out for Biden. If Biden can limit trade with Russia, this gesture will satisfy the needs of his business buddies; China and Ukraine. Ukraine gets more security and maybe extra funding, while China gets to replace USA in the Russian Semiconductor and computer markets. Once that is set, China can better spy on Russia, like it does in the USA. China does not trust Russia and vice versa so extra ability to snoop on Russia would make Biden rich.

My fear is the Democrats, being so low on the polls, may also think they need a war to act like they are important. One can already see the propaganda machine of the Democrat party; main stream media; testing the waters and singing the needed tune in ten part harmony; all saying the same thing. This bunch has little concern for the people doing the fighting, but rather sees the increased donations coming from military contractors and a chance to act "Presidential", as a means to increase poll numbers. The propaganda machine will need to hype everything as an accomplishment.

The arrangement with military contractors is not organic with the Democrat party, since they always say they hate war as a distraction. Rather it has been historically set up as a money laundering scam, where their campaign donation cut is already defined before the money is allocated. This scam is not new to the Democrats since the teachers Unions work by the same deal. They are paid tax payer dollars, by the government, with the Democrat kickback; union donations, already worked out up front, via the money laundering scam with the teachers's union. Tax payers need better protections.
You are very deep into the Republican propaganda
 

Napoleon

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
17,233
Reaction score
6,343
Location
Columbus, OH
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate

A big goal of this move is to keep new iphones out of Russia. In my opinion, this is a big deal. Russians love love love love their iphones. There is no phenomenon like it in America. It is difficult to underestimate their role as a status symbol in that part of the world.

If Russians learned that Putin's sabre-rattling toward Ukraine caused America to take away its iphones?

Anyone with a child and a cookie jar on top of the refrigerator knows what that would be like.

Find American goods that Russians actually value and take them away, thereby eroding Putin's support. Love it.
iPhones are mostly manufactured in China. No US policy is going to stop them from being sold in Russia.
 

TomFitz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
14,916
Reaction score
10,344
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't think that anyone honestly knows the end goal, but you point to a lot of the problems with a full-scale Russian invasion. Although there are Ukrainians sympathetic to Russia in the eastern part of the country--Ukrainians who openly self-identify as Russians or who use "we're one people" language--there is a lot of hatred toward Russia in the central and western parts of the country.

This isn't 2014 anymore, when Putin enjoyed almost universal support among Russians for his invasion of Crimea.

But on the other hand, I don't know how we can ignore Putin's reputation for machismo. How does he remove his troops from the border and not look weak?

Your second paragraph is close to the target.

Vladimir Putin said that the breakup of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact was the worst event of the 20th century. (At least from the Russian point of view).

He has longed to be the man who rebuilt the Russian empire and its sphere of influence.

Given the shaky state of the Russian economy and its’ continued dependence on petroleum exports for hard currency, he’s been remarkably successful.

He was able the engineer a grand spectacle in 2014, a massive Olympics that made Russia shine temporarily in the world. Temporarily, because Putin followed that up immediately with a surprise attack on Crimea.

Which brought sanctions. (the sanctions that Trump wanted to cancel).

Indeed, you can see the effects of the Russian agitprop campaign on this very thread, as reactionaries repeat the Russian pronoted line about Hunter Biden.

In late 2018, with the help of his American friend, Putin was able to consolidate his hold on Crimea, and the Americans further helped out by abandoning their presence on Syria. Russian flags went up over American bases, and the program of bombing and gassing civilians in Syria accellerated.

Through all this, Russia has waged successful social media agitprop campaigns in many countries, but especially in the United States and the UK.

The objective in both countries was the same. Divide the US and Great Britain internally and from each other, with the goal of undermining NATO and the EU, thus eliminating the bulwark that stood against Russia since 1945.

The Ukraine crisis is the next step.

Putin’s objective is to undermine NATO and get them bickering over what to do. He wants to exploit the anxiety that most of the EU has over the reliability of the United States.

And, even though the Biden Administation has been proactive in stepping up to be the leader of the Western Alliance, years of mistrust built up over the Bush and Trump years, makes that job a lot harder.

The politics and rhetoric that Putin is engaging in is not significantly different that what the Nazis did in the Czech crisis of 1938.

They have manufactured a mythology of oppressed Russians in Ukraine for domestic consumption.

And Putin is comparing himself to Stalin while beating his chest.

They have bullied, blustered, and called themselves peacemaker in the bargain.

They have done everything they can to sow division between the US and its allies, and have done everything it can obliquely to bully and threaten the former Warsaw Pact countries.

That part isn’t really working .Poland just announced plans to double the size of its military. There are other signs of strength against the Russian bear as well.

Ukraine wil be too big a pill for Moscow to swallow. It took the Russians nearly five years to regain control over Ukraine at the end of WWII, when it had a well equipped and large army to do it with.

All Putin will be doing is buying an invasion and civil war that will sap Moscow’s renounces in a way that will make the Afghanistan invasion of 1980 look easy.

But Putin wants his empire back. And his Russophile base is with him.
 
Last edited:

anatta

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
7,417
Reaction score
3,808
Location
daily dukkha
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It did happen, anatta. Russia invaded and then annexed sovereign territory of the Ukraine by holding an unconstitutional referendum in a heavily ethnically Russian-dominated enclave to become an exclave of Russia. It would be little different than Mexico invading and then annexing San Diego because the ethnically-Mexican population of San Diego County voted to rejoin Mexico.
ya/ ya. it was an annexation with popular support from the people of Crimea..

And Russia relation to Crimea is no way is equivalent to Mexico on SD.
Crimea has Russian naval base. the naval base in SD is not Mexican
 

XDU

Banned
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
1,726
Reaction score
407
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
So it's all just predatory quibbling over money as per usual? Well, I don't see how the US can sit this one out.
The U.S. can't sit it out one way or another because of the Budapest Memorandum.

Europe is basically using the U.S. to expand the E.U., and the Democrats are more than happy to oblige because the anti-Russians in Ukraine are social democrats.

The biggest problem is Trump's strongman personality made Republicans look like psychological allies to Putin the thug, so there is no clear solution to handle the situation with a delicate touch.
 

anatta

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
7,417
Reaction score
3,808
Location
daily dukkha
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Jesus, Russia is really putting a lot of trolls out there.


Oh shut up. They're amassing troops on the border. No, I will not ignore the situation until they actually invade. What kind of dumbass logic is that?
Jump the shark.. I dont care
 

TomFitz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
14,916
Reaction score
10,344
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I think the Russian youth wants the country to westernize, but there is a strong pull among the older generations to return the motherland to its former glory. Some Russia-supporting Ukrainians feel similarly and openly say so.

Not long ago, a poll of most-loved Russians placed Stalin near the top of the list, behind Gagarin. Meanwhile, Gorbachev was the most-hated, probably for making Russia weak.

Stalin delivered victory for Russia in the Great Patriotic War. That’s why Russians love Stalin.

No one in Russia talks about the KGB or Gulags. Most Russians are barely aware of any of that.

Cruise the streaming services and you will find many Russian produced WWII programs. They’re interesting to watch because they present the war on what we call the Eastern Front from a Russian point of view (interestingly, all of them show a lot of American made Lend Lease equipment, too).

In them, Russians are heroes and the Nazis are villains, just as they are in western WWII movies. But the perspective is entirely different.
 

anatta

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
7,417
Reaction score
3,808
Location
daily dukkha
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The U.S. can't sit it out one way or another because of the Budapest Memorandum.

Europe is basically using the U.S. to expand the E.U., and the Democrats are more than happy to oblige because the anti-Russians in Ukraine are social democrats.

The biggest problem is Trump's strongman personality made Republicans look like psychological allies to Putin the thug, so there is no clear solution to handle the situation with a delicate touch.
np the biggest problem was the Russian Hoax which absolutely poisoned US/Russian relations.
Trump wanted to improve US/Russians relations where possible. The INTEL agencies would have no part of it and used
The Steele Dossier ( specifically the FBI) when they knew it was bogus against Trump to stop him -and it worked.

Trump wound up being a hawk because his NSC and the politics of even talking diplomacy to Putin were used against him
 

Eatomus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
2,348
Reaction score
439
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

A big goal of this move is to keep new iphones out of Russia. In my opinion, this is a big deal. Russians love love love love their iphones. There is no phenomenon like it in America. It is difficult to underestimate their role as a status symbol in that part of the world.

If Russians learned that Putin's sabre-rattling toward Ukraine caused America to take away its iphones?

Anyone with a child and a cookie jar on top of the refrigerator knows what that would be like.

Find American goods that Russians actually value and take them away, thereby eroding Putin's support. Love it.
Awesome Dude !
Then we can use the extra Iphones to fuel the trucking industry, fly our planes , keep prices down, heat our homes, in place of the Russian oil and gas we have now been made to beg Putin for .
BRILLIANT !
  • ELECTRIC POWER | NATURAL GAS | OIL
  • 21 Jan 2022 | 15:10 UTC

Russian crude exports to US highlight risks to Ukraine talks for Biden.​


get off my lawn.jpg
 

anatta

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
7,417
Reaction score
3,808
Location
daily dukkha
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
You're arguing I can't criticize Russia for amassing troops on the Ukrainian border until they actually attack. Run along, Putin's boy.
you can criticize, but you dont know anymore then anyone else what Russia will do. massing is just that.
My bet was nothing until Slo-Joe gave him the "minor incursion" green card -now i dont know either

run along yourself and take those war drums with you
 

CaughtInThe

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
61,059
Reaction score
40,775
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Putin is gonna slaughter a ton of pro democracy families in the Ukraine.

And our most religious groups will fall silent.
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
It is difficult to underestimate their role as a status symbol in that part of the world.

I think you meant "overestimate" but we know what you meant.

Find American goods that Russians actually value and take them away, thereby eroding Putin's support. Love it.

I do think this is a SAD SAD testimony on where we are as a society and a global society in general. I dont think you're correct #1, but its a bizarre time when we're thinking of treating another nation like an 8 year old kid and taking away their toy unless they do what we want BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

They'll get iPhones regardless anyway. "Capitalism" and "free trade" and BLAH BLAH BLAH man!!!
If by some miracle they cant get an iPhone they'll be just fine with Android.(y)
 

PeacefulWarrior

I am not a robot.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
8,579
Reaction score
4,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Putin is gonna slaughter a ton of pro democracy families in the Ukraine.

I cant be too worried about that.
I'm more concerned about the families that the USA slaughtered during its Shock & Awe terror attacks.
And still slaughters to this day via its proxy hired mercenary thugs like Blackwater and others.

Ukraine will have to be the problem of the folks that live there, and their neighbors. I wish them luck!(y)
 

a_person

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2021
Messages
31
Reaction score
15
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I can dig it. Right move.
 

TomFitz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
14,916
Reaction score
10,344
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
President Biden has Quid Pro Quo's with Ukraine and with China through his middleman son; Hunter. This strategy above works out for Biden. If Biden can limit trade with Russia, this gesture will satisfy the needs of his business buddies; China and Ukraine. Ukraine gets more security and maybe extra funding, while China gets to replace USA in the Russian Semiconductor and computer markets. Once that is set, China can better spy on Russia, like it does in the USA. China does not trust Russia and vice versa so extra ability to snoop on Russia would make Biden rich.

My fear is the Democrats, being so low on the polls, may also think they need a war to act like they are important. One can already see the propaganda machine of the Democrat party; main stream media; testing the waters and singing the needed tune in ten part harmony; all saying the same thing. This bunch has little concern for the people doing the fighting, but rather sees the increased donations coming from military contractors and a chance to act "Presidential", as a means to increase poll numbers. The propaganda machine will need to hype everything as an accomplishment.

The arrangement with military contractors is not organic with the Democrat party, since they always say they hate war as a distraction. Rather it has been historically set up as a money laundering scam, where their campaign donation cut is already defined before the money is allocated. This scam is not new to the Democrats since the teachers Unions work by the same deal. They are paid tax payer dollars, by the government, with the Democrat kickback; union donations, already worked out up front, via the money laundering scam with the teachers's union. Tax payers need better protections.

It is very sad to see many Americans so ill informed and parochial that they would view a global political crisis through the very narrow and distorted lens of right wing gotcha politics.

It is also unfortunate how many people see the sort of strong man criminality that was the last Administration as the way the world works. Shadowy gangster types, wannabe international men of mystery, and bag man may have been the way trump did things.

Having fully endorsed the behavior of trump, his kids, clowns like Guliani, Bannon and the rest, you come here and make empty accusation that essentially announce that you think the world works the way Putin does and Trump did.

This nonsense about Hunter Biden can right from Moscow to Giuliani’s ears.

And here you are repeating the Kremlin line.
 
Top Bottom