U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

[Dezaad]

Caught doing what? A legal security measure authorized by basically the entirety of the people that we voted into office. That's democracy at work.

Well, clearly if they thought the public would approve, then we have broken democracy. Democracy must be in working order for it to produce legitimate governance.

 

[CRUE CAB]

... While killing everyone else on board? That's not very moderate, in fact, that's down right extreme - something you'd hear Senator Lindsay Graham or former Vice President Dick Cheney say.

There is a price to pay. Anyone else on the charter will be aware of who they are flying and who they are flying with.
They are accessories.

 

[Jango]

There is a price to pay. Anyone else on the charter will be aware of who they are flying and who they are flying with.
They are accessories.

You've got to be kidding? Because everyone in the world is aware of controversies in the U.S. or Edward Snowden. Give me a break.

 

[CRUE CAB]

You've got to be kidding? Because everyone in the world is aware of controversies in the U.S. or Edward Snowden. Give me a break.

He may be a hero to you, but any right thinking American know you dont sell or give national secrets to our enemies.
He signed a oath and took a promise to guard those secrets.
Had he had an issue he could have resigned. But he WANTS to do damage to the US. He is no hero. There is a good chance that he will get people killed.
There is your break.

 

[Jango]

He may be a hero to you, but any right thinking American know you dont sell or give national secrets to our enemies.
He signed a oath and took a promise to guard those secrets.
Had he had an issue he could have resigned. But he WANTS to do damage to the US. He is no hero. There is a good chance that he will get people killed.
There is your break.

Read post #98.

 

[Paschendale]

Manning indiscriminately gave away a pile of secrets because he was dissatisfied with his service, the Army, and the war. He did it to punish the powers that be.

Snowden exposed a secret program that appears, on the surface, very much like a constitutional affront. He did not do it to punish the government, nor to hurt US interests; he chose a specific journalist he trusted to put another set of eyes on the information before it went public, just to insure there wasn't something in there that could do indiscriminate damage. He did it on behalf of the American citizen.

Manning tried to hurt, even if he thought his intentions (to stop the US from... whatever it was he was accusing it of) were pure. Snowden tried to help.

Other than you making up malicious intentions on the part of Manning, I see no real difference. Both were upset by actions taken by our government, and revealed those actions to the American people. But Manning's information embarrassed the military and was about our foreign policies, while Snowden's had to do with something unpopular and domestic policy. I think the difference is entirely partisan. Manning and Wikileaks doesn't fit the pro-military, anti-foreigners platform, while Snowden fits the anti-government, anti-Obama one. If one really supports the government being transparent and accountable to the people, then they don't pick and choose which parts of the government to keep an eye on.

 

[windowdressing]

... While killing everyone else on board? That's not very moderate, in fact, that's down right extreme - something you'd hear Senator Lindsay Graham or former Vice President Dick Cheney say.

also something that happens when you send drones into civilian populations ...

 

[davidtaylorjr]

From WaPo:

Snowden was charged with theft, “unauthorized communication of national defense information” and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person,” according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.

The complaint, which initially was sealed, was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered and a district with a long track record of prosecuting cases with national security implications. After The Washington Post reported the charges, senior administration officials said late Friday that the Justice Department was barraged with calls from lawmakers and reporters and decided to unseal the criminal complaint.

U.S. charges Snowden with espionage - The Washington Post

Yet there is no accountability for the Government. Sound like 1776 anyone?

 

[CRUE CAB]

Read post #98.

And post 99 still applies. He made himself an enemy.

 

[Gonzo Rodeo]

Other than you making up malicious intentions on the part of Manning, I see no real difference. Both were upset by actions taken by our government, and revealed those actions to the American people. But Manning's information embarrassed the military and was about our foreign policies, while Snowden's had to do with something unpopular and domestic policy. I think the difference is entirely partisan. Manning and Wikileaks doesn't fit the pro-military, anti-foreigners platform, while Snowden fits the anti-government, anti-Obama one. If one really supports the government being transparent and accountable to the people, then they don't pick and choose which parts of the government to keep an eye on.

He was already in trouble with the military. He was going through a break down. When he was threatened with losing his only day off a week he flipped over a table. He beat up a female soldier and lost rank. He was angry, emotionally distraught, and isolated.

This is the chat log with Adrian Lamo right before his huge disclosures of data:

(11:49:02 AM) bradass87: im in the desert, with a bunch of hyper-masculine trigger happy ignorant rednecks as neighbors... and the only safe place i seem to have is this satellite internet connection

(11:49:51 AM) bradass87: and i already got myself into minor trouble, revealing my uncertainty over my gender identity ... which is causing me to lose this job ... and putting me in an awkward limbo [...]

(11:52:23 AM) bradass87: at the very least, i managed to keep my security clearance [so far] [...]

(11:58:33 AM) bradass87: and little does anyone know, but among this "visible" mess, theres the mess i created that no-one knows about yet [...]

(12:15:11 PM) bradass87: hypothetical question: if you had free reign [sic] over classified networks for long periods of time ... say, 8–9 months ... and you saw incredible things, awful things ... things that belonged in the public domain, and not on some server stored in a dark room in Washington DC ... what would you do? [...]

(12:21:24 PM) bradass87: say ... a database of half a million events during the iraq war ... from 2004 to 2009 ... with reports, date time groups, lat-lon locations, casualty figures ...? or 260,000 state department cables from embassies and consulates all over the world, explaining how the first world exploits the third, in detail, from an internal perspective? [...]

(12:26:09 PM) bradass87: lets just say *someone* i know intimately well, has been penetrating US classified networks, mining data like the ones described ... and been transferring that data from the classified networks over the “air gap” onto a commercial network computer ... sorting the data, compressing it, encrypting it, and uploading it to a crazy white haired aussie who can't seem to stay in one country very long =L [...]

(12:31:43 PM) bradass87: crazy white haired dude = Julian Assange

(12:33:05 PM) bradass87: in other words ... ive made a huge mess :’([48]

He was clearly pissed off at the Army, and the "first world".

And given the rest of your statement, should I conclude that you agree with both leakers?

 

[Khayembii Communique]

This is the chat log with Adrian Lamo right before his huge disclosures of data:

Wrong. That is the chat log that Lamo supplied.

 

[Geoist]

I admit to knowing nothing about Iceland's politics, but why would it consider taking Snowden in and possibly offering him citzenship?

Why wouldn't they consider it?

 

[Geoist]

Found this tidbit in the Greenwald article interesting:

Prior to Barack Obama's inauguration, there were a grand total of three prosecutions of leakers under the Espionage Act (including the prosecution of Dan Ellsberg by the Nixon DOJ). That's because the statute is so broad that even the US government has largely refrained from using it. But during the Obama presidency, there are now seven such prosecutions: more than double the number under all prior US presidents combined.
On the Espionage Act charges against Edward Snowden | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

 

[Ryan5]

We need more Snowdens.

He should be given an award. I respect him as an American myself. He's a good guy.

 

[OldWorldOrder]

Well, clearly if they thought the public would approve, then we have broken democracy. Democracy must be in working order for it to produce legitimate governance.

The people don't have to approve. Honestly, the people don't know better. If the people had to approve everything, we'd just have direct democracy. We don't.

Little know fact: Half of all people are of below average intelligence.

 

[austrianecon]

Current problems are a direct result of the Patriot Act, not the historical rights that were more limited.

Absolutely wrong. FISA was around before the Patriot Act. FISA doesn't deny ****. US citizen or not.

 

[Grant]

The US is not the problem. It's the corrupt US regime.

The American people elected this regime. It's up to the people to decide the direction a country takes, otherwise it's just geography.

 

[iguanaman]

We need more Snowdens.

He should be given an award. I respect him as an American myself. He's a good guy.

How do you know what information he gave to China and now Putin in Russia? Could there possibly be info that would make him a traitor to you? Or does that not matter?

 

[iguanaman]

The American people elected this regime. It's up to the people to decide the direction a country takes, otherwise it's just geography.

We elected the regime that started it because they claimed it was necessary to protect us. Did Bush lie to the American people about that too?

 

[Grant]

Your architect from is from Nicaragua, the country that Reagan/Bush terrorized. It's leader is Daniel Ortega, who was the leader of the Sandanistas that Reagan/Bush tried to kill. If anyone brought her freedom, it was Ortega, because we peddle oligarchical Dictatorships. We are collectively Americas, North and South and Central and Latin. The USA and Canada are also part of the Americas and neither is America.

Neither Reagan or Bush terrorized Nicaragua. You have them confused with Communist dictators. Read 'The Black Book Of Communism' to get an idea of what this murderous system did, and especially the part about Nicaragua. It's a shame that there are still people unaware of the inhumanity Communists created during their 7 decade run.

"The Americas" was not mentioned. Only Central America.

 

[Grant]

We elected the regime that started it because they claimed it was necessary to protect us. Did Bush lie to the American people about that too?

No more Bush talk, please. Let it go. We are talking about the Now.

 

[iguanaman]

No more Bush talk, please. Let it go. We are talking about the Now.

So that's a yes?

 

[Fenton]

So that's a yes?

It just looks really desperate. Really pathetic.

Obama stood up and publicly critiqued Bush's Patriot Act, and then behind the scenes increased its size and scope exponentionlly.

Obama got booed at the Rolling Stones concert whrn Jagger brought him up.
I guess some of you people are tired of being lied to.

 

[solletica]

The American people elected this regime. It's up to the people to decide the direction a country takes, otherwise it's just geography.

Regimes can only be elected in democracies. The US is a plutocracy. Look at the ballot access laws lately?

 

[Grant]

Regimes can only be elected in democracies. The US is a plutocracy. Look at the ballot access laws lately?

I was quoting "regime" from the poster I was responding to. I don't use the word otherwise.