U.N. urges U.S. to end Cuba embargo (1 Viewer)

[Binary_Digit]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061108/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/un_cuba

The U.N. General Assembly voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to urge the United States to end its 45-year-old trade embargo against Cuba after defeating an amendment calling on Fidel Castro's government to free political prisoners and respect human rights.

(snip)

Delegates in the General Assembly chamber burst into applause when the vote flashed on the screen — 183 in favor to 4 opposed, with 1 abstention. Joining the United States in voting "no" were Israel and the South Pacific nations of the Marshall Islands and Palau. Micronesia, also in the South Pacific, abstained.

I don't like the idea of appeasing countries who violate human rights, but if this embargo is in fact illegal according to international law then maybe we should find a different way to influence Castro's behavior?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061108/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/un_cuba


I don't like the idea of appeasing countries who violate human rights, but if this embargo is in fact illegal according to international law then maybe we should find a different way to influence Castro's behavior?

How can choosing who we trade with be against international law? We don't have to do anything we don't want to it's called sovereignty.

 

[Binary_Digit]

How can choosing who we trade with be against international law?

That's what I thought too. But two people in that article said it's illegal. Granted, they are Cuba's Foreign Minister and a customs worker, not exactly credible experts, and that's why I used the word "if" instead of "since". :2razz: I admit I don't know as much as I should about international law, so I guess what you're saying is that this embargo doesn't violate it. That's good.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

That's what I thought too. But two people in that article said it's illegal. Granted, they are Cuba's Foreign Minister and a customs worker, not exactly credible experts, and that's why I used the word "if" instead of "since". :2razz: I admit I don't know as much as I should about international law, so I guess what you're saying is that this embargo doesn't violate it. That's good.

Ya it doesn't make sense that it would be illegal.

 

[jujuman13]

Quote
(I don't like the idea of appeasing countries who violate human rights, but if this embargo is in fact illegal according to international law then maybe we should find a different way to influence Castro's behavior?)

If your assertion is true, then why no embargo against Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, Poland, Mexico, Algeria, Zimbabwe, to name just a few?

Yes the US disagrees with the human rights as practiced by the Cuban Government, but is the US any different, we authorize torture of our perceived and actual enemy's (OK we don't actually call it torture, but that is what it in actual fact is).
TOT is of course of the opinion of string em up and hang em high, as well as Bomb the ***** out of them, which in reality solves nothing, merely throws a problem forward to the next generation.

If the US lifted the trade ban the US would benefit, if the US then decided to talk rather than snarl at dissenting nations, it might just be possible that they will listen.

I have always been in favor of talk first, then if that does not work, go on to other methods, sanctions etc etc.

TOT on the other hand is all for the mailed fist approach, first and foremost, which is basically why his much vaunted Roman Civilization collapsed.
Very little is ever resolved by fighting, much can be and is resolved by dialog.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yes the US disagrees with the human rights as practiced by the Cuban Government, but is the US any different, we authorize torture of our perceived and actual enemy's (OK we don't actually call it torture, but that is what it in actual fact is).

Sorry interrogating terrorists isn't the same thing as torturing political dissidents or holding political prisoners8

TOT is of course of the opinion of string em up and hang em high, as well as Bomb the ***** out of them, which in reality solves nothing, merely throws a problem forward to the next generation.

Ya because war has never solved anything. :roll:

If the US lifted the trade ban the US would benefit, if the US then decided to talk rather than snarl at dissenting nations, it might just be possible that they will listen.

Yes good idea let's help the economy of one of our most vocal enemies.
I have always been in favor of talk first, then if that does not work, go on to other methods, sanctions etc etc.

TOT on the other hand is all for the mailed fist approach, first and foremost, which is basically why his much vaunted Roman Civilization collapsed.

I thought it was because of lead pipes in the aquaducts. Actually the mailed fist approach sustained the Roman Republic and empire for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Very little is ever resolved by fighting, much can be and is resolved by dialog.

Thankyou Neville Chamberlin.

 

[Spencer Collins]

I say the US should end it's embargo against Cuba. To show Cuba that we are willing to forgive and forget,our first export to Cuba should be the UN itself! What a great new location for the UN..I would be willing to make a personal donation to the relocation effort!

 

[Hatuey]

Quote
(I don't like the idea of appeasing countries who violate human rights, but if this embargo is in fact illegal according to international law then maybe we should find a different way to influence Castro's behavior?)

If your assertion is true, then why no embargo against Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, Poland, Mexico, Algeria, Zimbabwe, to name just a few?

Yes the US disagrees with the human rights as practiced by the Cuban Government, but is the US any different, we authorize torture of our perceived and actual enemy's (OK we don't actually call it torture, but that is what it in actual fact is).
TOT is of course of the opinion of string em up and hang em high, as well as Bomb the ***** out of them, which in reality solves nothing, merely throws a problem forward to the next generation.

If the US lifted the trade ban the US would benefit, if the US then decided to talk rather than snarl at dissenting nations, it might just be possible that they will listen.

I have always been in favor of talk first, then if that does not work, go on to other methods, sanctions etc etc.

TOT on the other hand is all for the mailed fist approach, first and foremost, which is basically why his much vaunted Roman Civilization collapsed.
Very little is ever resolved by fighting, much can be and is resolved by dialog.

He supports Pinochet. Shows how far his hypocrisy goes.

"Some human violations are good others are bad".

Start Sarcasm.

Lifting the embargo on Cuba would be a great idea we could americanize them. Worked for the Japs and Russians. We open a few MickeyDs(MacDonalds) and they'll forget any sense of history, culture and pride they ever had. They'll become a state and then in 2040 they'll be the battle ground for the precidential race between Joe Liebermans clone(running as an independent of course) and Nixon's head.

End Sarcasm.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

He supports Pinochet. Shows how far his hypocrisy goes.

No I supported the overthrow of the tyrant Allende, but Pinochet should not have installed a dictatorship, however, his actions did insure that Chile is not another Cuba today.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

He supports Pinochet. Shows how far his hypocrisy goes.

"Some human violations are good others are bad".

Start Sarcasm.

Lifting the embargo on Cuba would be a great idea we could americanize them. Worked for the Japs and Russians.

It worked on the Japanese because we dropped two nukes on them, it worked on Russia because we refused to trade with them and it destroyed their economy. It hasn't worked on China because we didn't wait unitl their economy collapsed before we began trading with them.

 

[Kandahar]

We SHOULD end the embargo. It obviously has failed abysmally, and we've even let the one event (Raul's ascension) in the last 40 years pass without trying to shake things up.

As long as Cuba's government doesn't threaten us (which it doesn't), it should be up to the Cuban people to decide what kind of government they want or are willing to tolerate.

Free trade and diplomatic recognition will bring the end of communism in Cuba, just as it did in Russia and China. Lift the embargo.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

We SHOULD end the embargo. It obviously has failed abysmally, and we've even let the one event (Raul's ascension) in the last 40 years pass without trying to shake things up.

As long as Cuba's government doesn't threaten us (which it doesn't), it should be up to the Cuban people to decide what kind of government they want or are willing to tolerate.

Free trade and diplomatic recognition will bring the end of communism in Cuba, just as it did in Russia and China. Lift the embargo.

China is still totalitarian as ever. When Castro is dead then we'll talk.

 

[Kandahar]

China is still totalitarian as ever.

It's a dictatorship but it's not totalitarian. Its economy is certainly more liberal than it was under communism. And it's much less likely that China will emerge as a serious threat, now that we rely on each other so heavily.

Diplomatic recognition and trade with China has been HUGELY beneficial to both parties.

When Castro is dead then we'll talk.

Fidel already gave up his power to his brother, so I don't see how this matters much.

 

[Hatuey]

It worked on the Japanese because we dropped two nukes on them, it worked on Russia because we refused to trade with them and it destroyed their economy. It hasn't worked on China because we didn't wait unitl their economy collapsed before we began trading with them.

We had been westernizing Japan long before WWII and it worked for Russia because their own corruption brought them down. Which explains why Russia and the other CCCP countries are rife with mafias.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

We had been westernizing Japan long before WWII

Ya that worked out real well for us didn't it?

and it worked for Russia because their own corruption brought them down.

No socialism brought them down.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

It's a dictatorship but it's not totalitarian. Its economy is certainly more liberal than it was under communism. And it's much less likely that China will emerge as a serious threat, now that we rely on each other so heavily.

Diplomatic recognition and trade with China has been HUGELY beneficial to both parties.

Ya but it's also insured that the current regime will never collapse.

Fidel already gave up his power to his brother, so I don't see how this matters much.

I thought he took it back but having his brother taking over isn't much better.

 

[Hatuey]

Ya that worked out real well for us didn't it?

Yup. Now Japan is nothing more then the U.S. with whale big macs.

No socialism brought them down.

You live a dream. Russia is and was rife with corruption since the time of the tsars. Why do you even think the bolcheviks got their way? The tsar was a corrupt bastard. Then Lennin came and even though he had good intentions gave way to even more corrupt bastards like Stalin. See where I'm going here? In the past 200 years there hasn't been one non-corrupt and fair russian goverment.

 

[FreeThinker]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061108/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/un_cuba


I don't like the idea of appeasing countries who violate human rights, but if this embargo is in fact illegal according to international law then maybe we should find a different way to influence Castro's behavior?

You're right. Instead of a trade embargo we should just invade Cuba and set up a democracy.

I didn't know you were such a hawk Mr. Digit.

 

[FreeThinker]

it should be up to the Cuban people to decide what kind of government they want or are willing to tolerate.

WOW WHAT A CRAZY IDEA. LETTING PEOPLE CHOOSE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT.

WRITE CASTRO A LETTER.

 

[Kandahar]

WOW WHAT A CRAZY IDEA. LETTING PEOPLE CHOOSE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT.

WRITE CASTRO A LETTER.

And this moronic comment has what to do with the embargo?

 

[Kandahar]

Ya but it's also insured that the current regime will never collapse.

The embargo hasn't made the Cuban regime collapse either. In fact, in the case of the Soviet Union, their regime didn't collapse until AFTER they started liberalizing their economy at our prodding. Isolating a country economically just empowers the dictator.

Besides, it's fine if the current regime in China never collapses. As the Chinese become richer, they'll demand more from their government and it can evolve.

I thought he took it back but having his brother taking over isn't much better.

The point is that change in Cuba is not exactly imminent.

 

[FreeThinker]

And this moronic comment has what to do with the embargo?

The irony of you saying Cuba should be a democracy and in the same breath stating Americans should reward Castro by ending the embargo?

 

[Kandahar]

The irony of you saying Cuba should be a democracy and in the same breath stating Americans should reward Castro by ending the embargo?

I didn't say Cuba should be a democracy, I said it should be up to the Cuban people to determine what form of government they want or are willing to live with. If they're content enough with Castro that they don't overthrow him, I don't give a **** if they're a democracy.

And if you had bothered to read my post, you would clearly see that ending the embargo would not be a "reward" for Castro, because it would completely undermine his grip on the flow of money and information in his country. Just like it did in Russia and China. Just like the embargo has FAILED to do in Cuba, North Korea, and pretty much everywhere else we have an embargo.

 

[FreeThinker]

I didn't say Cuba should be a democracy, I said it should be up to the Cuban people to determine what form of government they want or are willing to live with.

Democracy: majority rule, democracy (the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Try harder. This is getting boring.

 

[Kandahar]

Democracy: majority rule, democracy (the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Try harder. This is getting boring.

What's your point? I'm talking about self-determination, not democracy. There is a difference. Why do you keep bringing this up? It has nothing to do with the embargo. Stop trying to derail the thread.