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TYT Poll Results: Will Bernie Supporters Vote For Hillary

Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

And yet so many of us are willing to negotiate our vote with Clinton; the problem? She refuses, and will not modify her platform to earn our support, so kindly take it up your frustrations with her.

My hope is that Obama will be able to broker a reconciliation process between her and Bernie after his meeting with the latter, and get this process of compromise underway.

As I said in the other topic, I do blame Clinton's hubris for her unwillingness to negotiate with Bernie's movement for its support, but that doesn't stop me from also blaming Bernie's movement for its own hubris and its inflation of its worth. To approach a negotiation table with the mindset that you can leave speaks of one of two things: 1) Your worth to the other party affords you such audacity, 2) you're under no pressure to make a deal. Neither applies to the progressive movement, which is why the Bernie or Bust twaddle is nothing more than petulant hubris that will be your undoing.

Again, I'm not a democrat; I'm a mere spectator who'll sit back and enjoy the show with a tall glass of schadenfreude. Also, if you think Obama will broker a deal between the two, prepare to be disappointed, as Obama's disdain for Bernie dwarfs that of Clinton.
 
Wednesday's big question: How many uncounted California ballots?
california-primary-millions-of-vote-by-mail-ballots-are-still-uncounted-will-alter-the-final-count/
Voter turnout may take days to determine
5 million Californians are expected to vote by mail, a new record for a statewide primary
Placebo Ballots: Stealing California From Bernie Using an Old GOP Vote-Snatching Trick
At least 800,000 ballots still uncounted in California
Placebo Ballots: Stealing California from Bernie Using an old GOP vote-snatching trick
California's Uncounted Vote-By-Mail Ballots: Identifying Variation in County Processing
Arizona Secretary of State Confirms Election Fraud Happened in State Primary (VIDEO)
Arizona Secretary of State Confirms Election Fraud During Primary Vote
INVESTIGATE THE VOTER FRAUD AND VOTER SUPPRESSION IN ARIZONA 3/22/2016 DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
The Arizona Secretary of State confirmed election fraud occurred in the state’s primary
Allegations of voter fraud follow Hillary Clinton campaign across nation
It’s Not Just Arizona: Election ‘Shenanigans’ Have Defined the Democratic Primaries - and Benefit Hillary Clinton
Phoenix Mayor Calls for Investigation Into Voter Fraud in Arizona Primary
Justice Department Opens Inquiry Into Arizona Election Debacle
Officials investigating why 126,000 voters were purged from NY rolls
Audit for NYC Elections Board Called Amid Polling Problems, Report of Voter Fraud
Additional Evidence Of Mind-Boggling Fraud Emerges from The New York Primary
New Yorkers unleash rage over alleged primary voter fraud at Board of Elections hearing
BREAKING: Voter Fraud Exposed In New York Primary! Whoa…
NYC Board of Elections Suspends 2nd Official, Delays Hillary Clinton v. Bernie Sanders Results Certification
Elections Board Certifies Primary Vote, Rejects 91,000 Provisional Ballots

If any of those links say that Bernie has received more votes than Hillary, you're welcome to cite and quote from it.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

So we should just blindly vote for whoever the democratic party serves up to us every election cycle so we can feel like our opinions matter? I have very, very little in common with Clinton, why should I vote for someone who doesn't represent my values so that she can defeat someone who doesn't represent my values?

I don't oppose the idea of negotiating the democratic party for your support; in fact, I support it as the utilitarian and shrewd thing to do. But in any negotiation, understanding your worth and where you're standing are paramount. As I repeatedly said, I blame Clinton's hubris for her unwillingness to negotiate with Bernie's movement, but I also blame the latter for the hubris that the Bernie or Bust nonsense embodies. For progressives to approach the negotiation table with that mindset, their worth needs to be so grand that it can afford them that audacity, or they can afford to walk away from the table. Neither applies to progressives, and the source of that attitude is nothing but petulant hubris and a lack of understanding of the country's sociopolitical reality.
 
Then why are you accusing me of trying to help Trump get into the White House?

????

You responded to that post addressing someone else's comment with self help advice. If you want to directly address any of several points in that post, that would be great.

And IMO, if I don't vote or cast one for a candidate who can't/won't get 1% of the popular vote (Stein), I might as well have the guts to just go ahead and cast a vote for Trump and be honest about it.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

As I said in the other topic, I do blame Clinton's hubris for her unwillingness to negotiate with Bernie's movement for its support, but that doesn't stop me from also blaming Bernie's movement for its own hubris and its inflation of its worth. To approach a negotiation table with the mindset that you can leave speaks of one of two things: 1) Your worth to the other party affords you such audacity, 2) you're under no pressure to make a deal. Neither applies to the progressive movement, which is why the Bernie or Bust twaddle is nothing more than petulant hubris that will be your undoing.

Again, I'm not a democrat; I'm a mere spectator who'll sit back and enjoy the show with a tall glass of schadenfreude. Also, if you think Obama will broker a deal between the two, prepare to be disappointed, as Obama's disdain for Bernie dwarfs that of Clinton.


Obama's disdain for Bernie dwarfs Clinton's? According to whom or what? Do you ever source your wild allegations?

Second, you may believe, and incorrectly so, that 43% of the Democratic electorate holds insufficient value to the Clinton camp to make hardball concessions, but her own people seem disagree with you in light of their constant handwringing that has been going on for months now. As for being under no pressure to make a deal, I certainly don't feel any substantive pressure, nor does an apparent preponderance of Bernie supporters; Clinton's camp needs Bernie's people more than Bernie's people need it. It would be great to arrive at a concession, but I can and will happily walk over to the Green Party if they don't play ball.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

I don't oppose the idea of negotiating the democratic party for your support; in fact, I support it as the utilitarian and shrewd thing to do. But in any negotiation, understanding your worth and where you're standing are paramount. As I repeatedly said, I blame Clinton's hubris for her unwillingness to negotiate with Bernie's movement, but I also blame the latter for the hubris that the Bernie or Bust nonsense embodies. For progressives to approach the negotiation table with that mindset, their worth needs to be so grand that it can afford them that audacity, or they can afford to walk away from the table. Neither applies to progressives, and the source of that attitude is nothing but petulant hubris and a lack of understanding of the country's sociopolitical reality.

The error in your logic is that you assume that all or most Bernie supporters are "progressive" and that Hillary Clinton is as well. Hillary Clinton is a war hawk who has actively used her political career to make herself wildly wealthy. She embodies money in politics and she fails on the vast majority of my biggest issues. I am not a loyal democrat who votes democrat every election because you all think it's your duty to do so. I'm an independent who votes for the individual, not the party. If Sanders really is out of the race it is not incumbent upon me to default to her next, she's going to have to earn my vote by not being horrible in most of the things I care about.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

The error in your logic is that you assume that all or most Bernie supporters are "progressive" and that Hillary Clinton is as well. Hillary Clinton is a war hawk who has actively used her political career to make herself wildly wealthy. She embodies money in politics and she fails on the vast majority of my biggest issues. I am not a loyal democrat who votes democrat every election because you all think it's your duty to do so. I'm an independent who votes for the individual, not the party. If Sanders really is out of the race it is not incumbent upon me to default to her next, she's going to have to earn my vote by not being horrible in most of the things I care about.

I'm not a democrat, nor am I a Clinton supporter; I'm only looking at the situation objectively. As I already stated, I don't ask of you to automatically vote democrat, but I expect that rather than throwing a tantrum and stomping your feet to the ground, you're going to vote in your best interest even if you end up not having everything you want or believe to be entitled to. Progressives will pay dearly if Trump makes it to the white house. As abysmal as his presidencies in their own right will be, they'll pave the way to an emboldened and vindictive conservatism that will dismantle liberalism in the U.S.

The problem with progressives and the reason why the abandoned reason in this election cycle is that they got a whiff of their utopia with the rise of Bernie and his message of democratic socialism. They find themselves unable to conceive of the idea of reverting back to the status quo or getting anything short of a full-fledged democratic socialism. I understand the sentiment but I also understand the dangers of being the slave of your whimsy.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

I'm not a democrat, nor am I a Clinton supporter; I'm only looking at the situation objectively. As I already stated, I don't ask of you to automatically vote democrat, but I expect that rather than throwing a tantrum and stomping your feet to the ground, you're going to vote in your best interest even if you end up not having everything you want or believe to be entitled to. Progressives will pay dearly if Trump makes it to the white house. As abysmal as his presidencies in their own right will be, they'll pave the way to an emboldened and vindictive conservatism that will dismantle liberalism in the U.S.

The problem with progressives and the reason why the abandoned reason in this election cycle is that they got a whiff of their utopia with the rise of Bernie and his message of democratic socialism. They find themselves unable to conceive of the idea of reverting back to the status quo or getting anything short of a full-fledged democratic socialism. I understand the sentiment but I also understand the dangers of being the slave of your whimsy.

You act as if I'm just being a sour puss about not getting my way and will reject Clinton just out of spite. I have never and at any point in my life agreed with any substantial number of Clinton's policies or liked her as a person. The only reason I voted Democrat for the first time ever was because of Bernie. I found someone with moral character with whom I can agree on most things politically. I can make compromises and I don't have to agree with everything a politician supports. I can't find very much common political ground with Clinton, she seems to have no moral integrity, and I don't like her.

There is absolutely no reason to vote for one asshole I can't stand to beat another asshole I can't stand. There are other candidates who better represent my beliefs and it is my duty as an American to vote accordingly. I do not want blood on my hands from the inevitable wars Clinton will start.
 
I think Gary Johnson will provide a spoiler campaign, preventing neither Trump nor Hillary from reaching the 270-needed votes to win and electing a Dark Horse President.

i don't agree. IMO, it's going to be one of the Fisher Price My First Political Party[sup]TM[/sup] candidates, as it always is.
 
If any of those links say that Bernie has received more votes than Hillary, you're welcome to cite and quote from it.

...So you have no problem with the democratic process being utterly raped?
 
LOL And you now think that is why he lost......I see you still need to work thru this yourself . If you look at it objectively, Sanders did very well and he is getting a lot of Kudos from high ranking Dems for his efforts. That is a good thing, don't you think?

It is, and refer to the 30+ links to find out why I will never support Hillary Clinton.
 
and there's no point in voting. Period.

"How many voters does it take to change a light bulb?
None. Because voters can't change anything."
--William Blum, Some further thoughts on American elections and democracy, October 02, 2012--
http://killinghope.org/bblum6/aer109.html

You've Got to Stop Voting
By Mark E. Smith
August 02, 2011
Updated April 08, 2012
You've Got to Stop Voting - by Mark E. Smith | FUBAR AND GRILL

3. If you don't vote, you can't complain.

What good does complaining do? When successive administrations of both parties tell you that they will not allow public opinion to influence policy decisions, you can complain all you want and it won't do you any good. But you don't need to vote to have the right to complain. The Declaration of Independence is a long list of complaints against a king by colonists who were not allowed to vote. The right to gripe is one of those unalienable rights that is not granted by governments or kings. If you're treated unjustly, you have the right to complain. A lot of people who voted for Obama are now angry with his policies and are complaining loudly. He couldn't care less.

7. If we don't vote, the Tea Party, the Breivik-types, and all the lunatics will, and they'll run the country.

They're a minority, no more than 10% at the very most. Of the approximately 50% of our electorate that votes, fewer than 10% vote for 3rd parties. The Apartheid regime in South Africa tried to seat the winning candidates after a successful election boycott where there was only a 7% turnout, but nobody thought they were legitimate or took them seriously.

Time to Boycott the Election
By Linh Dinh
August 14, 2012
Time to Boycott the Election

So vote only if you want more of this self-destructive madness. Vote only if you want more government suppression, more of your jobs sent overseas, bailouts for huge corporations and tax-funded bonuses for white-collar criminals. Vote only if you want to kill, die and be crippled in your overlords’ wars for profits. Vote if you hate yourselves, citizens. Both political parties consider you a fool when you register, stand in line, sometimes up to six hours, and vote, just to sanction their blatant lies.

Calm
 
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It is, and refer to the 30+ links to find out why I will never support Hillary Clinton.

Actually no one cares about those emails except Trump supporters in the GOP and YOU. That is the problem with the fringe elements in any political movement they tend to play right into the oppositions hands and lose everything to them as a result. Nader was famous for that mistake. I already told you that I don't care who you vote for and I meant it. I would much rather have Warren and Sanders support than yours for Hillary. I'm pretty sure they know better than you what will advance their ideas.
 
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I would love to vote for Jill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBmrdj0KV0c but it will never see the street light of Washington. lol

So yes, Bernie voter here voting for Trump. He was always my second choice. I voted for the Burn but knew going in if he didn't make it I'd go for Trump. It send no message voting for Hilary, it only looks like I agree with how America has proceeded the last ten or more years and I don't. So, Trump it is! I agree with a several of his views on foreign policy, trade, and immigration. The rest, not so much. I disagreed with a few things Bernie was running on but a public healthcare option is what I wanted.
 
Actually no one cares about those emails except Trump supporters in the GOP and YOU. That is the problem with the fringe elements in any political movement they tend to play right into the oppositions hands and lose everything to them as a result. Nader was famous for that mistake. I already told you that I don't care who you vote for and I meant it. I would much rather have Warren and Sanders support than yours for Hillary. I'm pretty sure they know better than you what will advance their ideas.

Point out where I'm talking about e-mails. Or, better yet, point out where those links refer to her e-mails.
 
"How many voters does it take to change a light bulb?
None. Because voters can't change anything."
--William Blum, Some further thoughts on American elections and democracy, October 02, 2012--
http://killinghope.org/bblum6/aer109.html

You've Got to Stop Voting
By Mark E. Smith
August 02, 2011
Updated April 08, 2012
You've Got to Stop Voting - by Mark E. Smith | FUBAR AND GRILL

3. If you don't vote, you can't complain.

What good does complaining do? When successive administrations of both parties tell you that they will not allow public opinion to influence policy decisions, you can complain all you want and it won't do you any good. But you don't need to vote to have the right to complain. The Declaration of Independence is a long list of complaints against a king by colonists who were not allowed to vote. The right to gripe is one of those unalienable rights that is not granted by governments or kings. If you're treated unjustly, you have the right to complain. A lot of people who voted for Obama are now angry with his policies and are complaining loudly. He couldn't care less.

7. If we don't vote, the Tea Party, the Breivik-types, and all the lunatics will, and they'll run the country.

They're a minority, no more than 10% at the very most. Of the approximately 50% of our electorate that votes, fewer than 10% vote for 3rd parties. The Apartheid regime in South Africa tried to seat the winning candidates after a successful election boycott where there was only a 7% turnout, but nobody thought they were legitimate or took them seriously.

Time to Boycott the Election
By Linh Dinh
August 14, 2012
Time to Boycott the Election

So vote only if you want more of this self-destructive madness. Vote only if you want more government suppression, more of your jobs sent overseas, bailouts for huge corporations and tax-funded bonuses for white-collar criminals. Vote only if you want to kill, die and be crippled in your overlords’ wars for profits. Vote if you hate yourselves, citizens. Both political parties consider you a fool when you register, stand in line, sometimes up to six hours, and vote, just to sanction their blatant lies.

Calm

At one point I considered the prospect of not voting tantamount to insanity, but this election has proven me wrong.

We need to boycott the system immediately. Everyone needs to stop participating in American politics immediately. We've completed the transition into a military junta.
 
They better if they give a ****.

Enough with the cringey anti-establishment zealotry, it's only going to make Trump our next president.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

You act as if I'm just being a sour puss about not getting my way and will reject Clinton just out of spite. I have never and at any point in my life agreed with any substantial number of Clinton's policies or liked her as a person. The only reason I voted Democrat for the first time ever was because of Bernie. I found someone with moral character with whom I can agree on most things politically. I can make compromises and I don't have to agree with everything a politician supports. I can't find very much common political ground with Clinton, she seems to have no moral integrity, and I don't like her.

There is absolutely no reason to vote for one asshole I can't stand to beat another asshole I can't stand. There are other candidates who better represent my beliefs and it is my duty as an American to vote accordingly. I do not want blood on my hands from the inevitable wars Clinton will start.

Being a Bernie supporter, you share so much more with Clinton than you do with Trump, regardless of how much you actually align with Clinton. Utility dictates that you choose the lesser of the two evils rather than throwing a tantrum while concealing it in a guise of morality. The foul aftertaste of such pragmatism remains much more palatable than a Trump presidency, the malevolence of which won't compare to the strain of conservatism it'll precipitate. If this was any other election cycle, I'd tolerate or even sanction such defiance, but considering the alternative, no one can do that in good conscience.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

Being a Bernie supporter, you share so much more with Clinton than you do with Trump, regardless of how much you actually align with Clinton. Utility dictates that you choose the lesser of the two evils rather than throwing a tantrum while concealing it in a guise of morality. The foul aftertaste of such pragmatism remains much more palatable than a Trump presidency, the malevolence of which won't compare to the strain of conservatism it'll precipitate. If this was any other election cycle, I'd tolerate or even sanction such defiance, but considering the alternative, no one can do that in good conscience.

This is the kind of ridiculous bull**** I can't stand. You feel as if I owe Clinton my vote and that by not voting for her I am throwing a tantrum. I don't owe her, the DNC, or you a god damn thing. When you're ready to drop the condescending rhetoric and listen to the reasons I've given why I won't vote for her, I'll be here.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

This is the kind of ridiculous bull**** I can't stand. You feel as if I owe Clinton my vote and that by not voting for her I am throwing a tantrum. I don't owe her, the DNC, or you a god damn thing. When you're ready to drop the condescending rhetoric and listen to the reasons I've given why I won't vote for her, I'll be here.

Here you go again with your tantrums. I clearly stated that you should vote Clinton not for her sake or out of admiration for her platform, but for your own interest considering what you stand to lose if Trump makes it to the white house. Why is that so hard for you understand? Chances are, it isn't, and you're just throwing a tantrum disguised in a cloak of deliberate misunderstanding of my simple argument.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

Here you go again with your tantrums. I clearly stated that you should vote Clinton not for her sake or out of admiration for her platform, but for your own interest considering what you stand to lose if Trump makes it to the white house. Why is that so hard for you understand? Chances are, it isn't, and you're just throwing a tantrum disguised in a cloak of deliberate misunderstanding of my simple argument.

"If you don't vote for Clinton, you're throwing a tantrum."

When Clinton decides to adopt some progressive policies and stops being a corporate controlled war hawk, I'll consider it. Unless you're done with simply hurling insults over and over, this will be my last reply to you. Run along, boy.
 
A poll from a little known network that is only followed by a niche group of people............................ is not the pulse of the average voter.
 
Re: Will Bernie Fans Vote For Hillary? (Poll Results)

There's nothing I enjoy more than being lectured about "the lesser of two evils" by moral degenerates who will vote for someone they vehemently disagree with, and don't like or trust. Hillary was the worst war hawk on either side this election cycle and I can not support a corrupt plutocrat that is going to get us sucked into another foreign quagmire.

God, I couldn't agree with this more.
 
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