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Two NC workers fired for not joining company's daily Christian devotionals

FurriesRock

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They can open and close when they want. They can refuse a particular kind of service if they want (Colorado baker was a good example). They cannot make demands on employees regarding Religious Services or Devotionals and the employer claiming not to ask the employer to believe in God but just participate in the Devotional is not going to fly unless this gets to the SC and religious zealots of the current Court just decide to jackass it up AGAIN.

However, lets look more at the employer that would try to sidestep the spirit of the Law as much as the letter of the Law in this subtle dodge. How much of his soul has he bartered away to the Devil in this effort to get an employee to bend to his will? How much actual religious faith does that employer carry in his heart?

I hope you are on this board employer. Listen carefully......Satan's imps are waiting for you....stocking the fires. Have a nice day.
Sweet, hot sexy imps!

Oh yeah, time for the ****ening!

Ea1CxYFWoAAG7kG.jpg
 

Channe79

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I thought I was clear enough. The same LAW that prohibits employment discrimination based on race prevents discrimination based on religion.

The basis of discrimination, when it comes to religion, shouldn't apply to private businesses. I'm agnostic so I have no dog in this fight directly - except for supporting the right of religious people to hire and work only with other religious people of their choosing.
 

vanceen

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what causes you to post that assuredness?

It seems pretty clear that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 has been violated if joining a religious event is a condition of employment.
 

366h34d

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That the facts show a clear violation of the law? 'Employer must provide reasonable accommodation to religious views'. Employer demands employees participate in religious activity, terminates them.
I understand what you say. The REAL problem here is that he was asked on one occasion to lead the Christian prayer (he will need to prove that). Otherwise, I believe it should be fine for the company to ask them to sit at the "prayer meeting" on the "company" clock. It is because you can sit there and not participate. In fact, you can bad mouth their god in your heart all you want. So, the REAL deal is "participate"
 

JasperL

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The basis of discrimination, when it comes to religion, shouldn't apply to private businesses. I'm agnostic so I have no dog in this fight directly - except for supporting the right of religious people to hire and work only with other religious people of their choosing.
OK, I don't agree and the law in place to get rid of that kind of toxic discrimination also doesn't agree.
 

366h34d

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It seems pretty clear that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 has been violated if joining a religious event is a condition of employment.
The word is "join." Can a company assign you to sit at the meeting without joining the prayer?
 

justabubba

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That the facts show a clear violation of the law? 'Employer must provide reasonable accommodation to religious views'. Employer demands employees participate in religious activity, terminates them.
i did not see where that employee was required to participate in a religious activity
he was invited to lead prayer and opted not to do so
he was being paid to sit thru a meeting
if being paid to sit is viewed as participating then you may have a case
i know i will have participated in a hell of a lot of movies, if your viewpoint is found to be valid
 

justabubba

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It seems pretty clear that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 has been violated if joining a religious event is a condition of employment.
he was paid to participate in a staff meeting of his employer
one in which the Christian members of the staff spoke about their faith
yes, he was exposed to their religious expressions
and yes, he was obligated to sit thru a discussion of things with which he disagreed
much as any employee has experienced while being compelled to attend a staff meeting
 

JasperL

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The word is "join." Can a company assign you to sit at the meeting without joining the prayer?
You can't not "join" in the prayer. You are in the prayer meeting. He might as well require people to attend a church service, but then say it's OK not to believe. Can the company assign you a mat then require you to face Mecca and kneel on that mat 5 times a day, without requiring you to mouth the prayers? Obviously that is requiring a person to join the prayer to Allah. Nothing is different just because these participants aren't required to kneel to pray, they are still joining in the prayer directed at them or others by being in the room, every day.

What you're really asking is for people to have no personal integrity about religion, so be honest about that. If you were forced to kneel and face Allah as those around you prayed to a god you did not believe it, it would be highly offensive to you to be forced into that position. You're expecting a devout Christian to go along with something he or she finds offensive, blasphemous, to keep their job.
 

JasperL

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i did not see where that employee was required to participate in a religious activity
he was invited to lead prayer and opted not to do so
he was being paid to sit thru a meeting
Except that the "meeting" was an overtly religious prayer service. You keep ignoring that part.
if being paid to sit is viewed as participating then you may have a case
Yes, if you sit in on a religious service, you are being forced to participate in that service, whether you're required to speak or just listen to that service.
i know i will have participated in a hell of a lot of movies, if your viewpoint is found to be valid
 

tres borrachos

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vanceen

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he was paid to participate in a staff meeting of his employer
one in which the Christian members of the staff spoke about their faith
yes, he was exposed to their religious expressions
and yes, he was obligated to sit thru a discussion of things with which he disagreed
much as any employee has experienced while being compelled to attend a staff meeting

I see where you're coming from, but I think this case crosses the line (if the link is accurate).

If some people were talking about their faith or praying in a business meeting, that would be different.

But the purpose of the meeting in this case, it appears, was religious. Forcing employees to be at a specifically religious gathering, under threat of firing, is conditioning employment on religious behavior.
 

Luce

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What I always find interesting is that Christians do everything they can to make everyone hate their religion, then act puzzled as to why nobody wants to join.
 

Jack2aTee

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our employment laws prohibit discrimination against an employee based on religion.
Correction: USED to prohibit discrimination against an employee based on religion. With our newer more "improved" SCOTUS that's al gone to sh*t now.
 

independentusa

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thx, hmm, it is like working at a Christian school but do not want to join the "staff meeting." It is not a wrongful dismissal in my book
On the other hand, did some big companies let some of their woke workers go too?
You are like the rest of the religious right, you do not want to be discriminated against due to your religion, but you want to be able to use your religion to discriminate.
 

Craig234

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i did not see where that employee was required to participate in a religious activity
he was invited to lead prayer and opted not to do so
he was being paid to sit thru a meeting
if being paid to sit is viewed as participating then you may have a case
i know i will have participated in a hell of a lot of movies, if your viewpoint is found to be valid
Bring uncomfortable sitting in a religious meeting is clearly an issue of their religious freedom easy to accomodate.
 

Craig234

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he was paid to participate in a staff meeting of his employer
one in which the Christian members of the staff spoke about their faith
yes, he was exposed to their religious expressions
and yes, he was obligated to sit thru a discussion of things with which he disagreed
much as any employee has experienced while being compelled to attend a staff meeting
Religious views are protected by law. Most secular topics are not. A few are, a meeting about sex would also infringe on their rights, as would a meeting to criticize their race.
 

justabubba

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Bring uncomfortable sitting in a religious meeting is clearly an issue of their religious freedom easy to accomodate.
excluding them from staff meetings because of their religious non-beliefs would be an EEO violation
 

Craig234

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excluding them from staff meetings because of their religious non-beliefs would be an EEO violation
Allowing them the option to not attend without penalty is not 'excluding them', and it's likely that holding such religious meetings at all as company activities, as opposed to allowing employees to on their own time, with all the likely pressure and risk to their positions, could constitute a hostile work environment.
 

justabubba

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Allowing them the option to not attend without penalty is not 'excluding them', and it's likely that holding such religious meetings at all as company activities, as opposed to allowing employees to on their own time, with all the likely pressure and risk to their positions, could constitute a hostile work environment.
without so many business events - hell, even political ones - beginning with a Christian prayer, i could find your argument credible
 

Craig234

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without so many business events - hell, even political ones - beginning with a Christian prayer, i could find your argument credible
Prayer in business events is a lot more rare than you think, and an opening prayer is a far cry from a meeting about prayer.
 

jnug

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without so many business events - hell, even political ones - beginning with a Christian prayer, i could find your argument credible
Count you as in favor of the principle of two wrongs make a right.
 

Integrityrespec

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The Supremes should have a ball with this one.

I would guess that unless you are working for a religious organization you would have the right to opt out. BTW, does that apply to diversity training where I don't want to get a transgender education because I believe it's immoral and sinful and making me listen would violate my religious freedom?
 

justabubba

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Prayer in business events is a lot more rare than you think, and an opening prayer is a far cry from a meeting about prayer.
while i doubt you actually have a legitimate grasp about what i think is found rare, you do acknowledge there are occasions when business activities include prayer
our differences then appear only to be a matter of how much time is spent during business sessions in prayer
 
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