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two maps that provide context to the texas abortion fight

Unitedwestand13

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This is a link to interactive map from the the Texas tribune that shows the number of abortions and and the locations of where the clinics and amubulatory clinics are located

Interactive: Where Women Received Abortions Across Texas | The Texas Tribune

this link is to a site that provides rent and income information of every neighborhood and city in America. view the statistics for the state of texas.

Rich Blocks, Poor Blocks | Neighborhood income and rent maps of U.S. cities

when you look at the information provided by these maps, it provides context to the abortion fight in texas, and how the recently passed anti-abortion bill will affect womens health in texas.
 

nota bene

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Nobody knows yet how the new law will affect Texas women. It was passed only six days ago.
 

Rainman05

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Well that seems rather damning if you ask me.
 

nota bene

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What? That the law was passed only six days ago?
 

Rainman05

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What? That the law was passed only six days ago?
no, that the number of abortions are a lot higher where there are abortion clinic present.
 

Thrilla

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This is a link to interactive map from the the Texas tribune that shows the number of abortions and and the locations of where the clinics and amubulatory clinics are located

Interactive: Where Women Received Abortions Across Texas | The Texas Tribune

this link is to a site that provides rent and income information of every neighborhood and city in America. view the statistics for the state of texas.

Rich Blocks, Poor Blocks | Neighborhood income and rent maps of U.S. cities

when you look at the information provided by these maps, it provides context to the abortion fight in texas, and how the recently passed anti-abortion bill will affect womens health in texas.
what are we supposed to be taking away from these maps?...what "conclusion" did you reach?
 

nota bene

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Good question.
 

Unitedwestand13

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what are we supposed to be taking away from these maps?...what "conclusion" did you reach?
I got the impression that 5 ambulatory surgical clinics will not be enough to cover the reproductive needs of texas's women population.

and i noticed the number of abortions in certain county's, such as dallas county, Tarrent County, and el paso counties. i don't recall how the new Anti-abortion bill will do anything to reduce the abortion rates in the state of texas, except making it harder to access safe and legal reproductive health care.
 

Thrilla

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I got the impression that 5 ambulatory surgical clinics will not be enough to cover the reproductive needs of texas's women population.

and i noticed the number of abortions in certain county's, such as dallas county, Tarrent County, and el paso counties. i don't recall how the new Anti-abortion bill will do anything to reduce the abortion rates in the state of texas, except making it harder to access safe and legal reproductive health care.
so I guess that means that these other clinics , if they wish to remain in the business of abortion, will now have to make changes that will put them in compliance with the law... correct?

come on man, you're a liberal... you love the idea of regulating business and forcing them to comply ;)
 

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Truly, you will obviously sway the opinions of anyone that disagrees with you on this issue by suggesting that the new law will have to make women be inconvieneced and travel a little farther to undertake an abortion. This will SURELY be an appeal and useful argument to anyone who isn't already staunchly pro-choice....

:roll:

That's the amazing thing with the abortion debatet...there's a tiny sliver in the middle that's actually somewhat moderate or undecided, but both sides tend to just make stupid arguments in terms of persuasiveness that have no real attraction to anyone OTHER than people who already massively agree with them.
 

Unitedwestand13

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so I guess that means that these other clinics , if they wish to remain in the business of abortion, will now have to make changes that will put them in compliance with the law... correct?

come on man, you're a liberal... you love the idea of regulating business and forcing them to comply ;)
let me explain via a analogy. Nutmeg graters are only good for one thing, grating nutmeg. you can't expect a nutmeg grater to grate cheese or other things that a regular grater can accomplish, and you can't force it to do it . abortion clinics are the nutmeg graters in my analogy: they only perform abortions and only have the resources to accomplish that task.

Forcing Abortion clinics to comply to the same standards and requirements of surgical ambulatory clinics is a example of unnecessary regulations, and if they cannot afford to comply to the new requirements in texas's new anti abortion bill, then they will have to shut down. that may be the desired effect of these regulations, make it impossible for abortion clinics to operate in the state of texas.
 

Thrilla

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let me explain via a analogy. Nutmeg graters are only good for one thing, grating nutmeg. you can't expect a nutmeg grater to grate cheese or other things that a regular grater can accomplish, and you can't force it to do it . abortion clinics are the nutmeg graters in my analogy: they only perform abortions and only have the resources to accomplish that task.

Forcing Abortion clinics to comply to the same standards and requirements of surgical ambulatory clinics is a example of unnecessary regulations, and if they cannot afford to comply to the new requirements in texas's new anti abortion bill, then they will have to shut down. that may be the desired effect of these regulations, make it impossible for abortion clinics to operate in the state of texas.
I thought abortion clinics provide all sorts of " reproductive healthcare" for women?... now they only perform abortions?

I have no fear that most, if not all, of these clinics will comply....it's scare tactics to assume they will all close down rather than comply.
those paying customers might have to ante up a bit more money to cover the cost of compliance, but such is the way with government mandated regulations.. somebody has to pay for 'em... and it's always the customer.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Truly, you will obviously sway the opinions of anyone that disagrees with you on this issue by suggesting that the new law will have to make women be inconvieneced and travel a little farther to undertake an abortion. This will SURELY be an appeal and useful argument to anyone who isn't already staunchly pro-choice....

:roll:

That's the amazing thing with the abortion debatet...there's a tiny sliver in the middle that's actually somewhat moderate or undecided, but both sides tend to just make stupid arguments in terms of persuasiveness that have no real attraction to anyone OTHER than people who already massively agree with them.
considering that only one abortion clinic operates in El Paso County, if that clinic is forced to close down, women in the county in need of abortion services would have to travel to Austin, fort worth, Dallas, Houston, or San Antonio and go to the ambulatory surgical clinic in those cities. and that is not factoring in the average income of citizens in el Paso
 

JayDubya

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let me explain via a analogy. Nutmeg graters are only good for one thing, grating nutmeg. you can't expect a nutmeg grater to grate cheese or other things that a regular grater can accomplish, and you can't force it to do it . abortion clinics are the nutmeg graters in my analogy: they only perform abortions and only have the resources to accomplish that task.

Forcing Abortion clinics to comply to the same standards and requirements of surgical ambulatory clinics is a example of unnecessary regulations, and if they cannot afford to comply to the new requirements in texas's new anti abortion bill, then they will have to shut down. that may be the desired effect of these regulations, make it impossible for abortion clinics to operate in the state of texas.
Well I certainly support the law, and I certainly desire that outcome.

Comparing an abortion clinic to a grater is probably a more apt comparison then you intended; and it's because of the grating they do I'll be happy to see them gone.
 

davidtaylorjr

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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't all they have to do is update the other clinics and staff to meet regulations?
 

longview

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Based on the maps, it seems that if someone wanted to open/update a clinic in say El paso or brownsville,
they could charge an additional $300 per abortion.
It would cost at least that much to fly somewhere else.
I am a fiscal conservative, I don't like the way my government spends money.
Abortion is a woman's issue, as a man, I could never comprehend the emotional
roller coaster a woman must go through with an unwanted pregnancy.
I think the impact on a single mother, raising an unwanted child, as bad as it would be,
would pale in comparison, to the impact on the child being raised by a mother
who did not want a child.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't all they have to do is update the other clinics and staff to meet regulations?
the bill is designed with regulations that cannot be fulfilled, kinda like demanding a vegetarian restaurant to serve Foie Gras as a requirement for staying in business.
 

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considering that only one abortion clinic operates in El Paso County, if that clinic is forced to close down, women in the county in need of abortion services would have to travel to Austin, fort worth, Dallas, Houston, or San Antonio and go to the ambulatory surgical clinic in those cities. and that is not factoring in the average income of citizens in el Paso
Autsin, Forth Worth, Dallas, Houston, Or San Antonio...

.... Or Albuquerque, Tuscon, or Phoenix potentially.

Again, your argument is it's going to make it more difficult and inconvienent for women to get abortions but still provides them with the ability to have such done. You'll get "RIGHT ONS!" from pro-choice people, "Exactlly. Your point?" from pro-life people, and I imagine most of those somewhat TRULY moderate or undecideds in the middle on this issue will probably shrug at it a bit in terms of the way you've presented the argument filled with all the typical rhetoric of your side throughout.

A great big "Meh" from me in terms of the argument you're putting forth. The notion that there's a lacking of significant medical necessity or substantial state interest in requiring a surgical facility near by, and thus the government shouldn't be interfering with private businesses and medical issues, is more of the reason why I'm not thrilled with the bill.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Autsin, Forth Worth, Dallas, Houston, Or San Antonio...

.... Or Albuquerque, Tuscon, or Phoenix potentially.

Again, your argument is it's going to make it more difficult and inconvienent for women to get abortions but still provides them with the ability to have such done. You'll get "RIGHT ONS!" from pro-choice people, "Exactlly. Your point?" from pro-life people, and I imagine most of those somewhat TRULY moderate or undecideds in the middle on this issue will probably shrug at it a bit in terms of the way you've presented the argument filled with all the typical rhetoric of your side throughout.

A great big "Meh" from me in terms of the argument you're putting forth. The notion that there's a lacking of significant medical necessity or substantial state interest in requiring a surgical facility near by, and thus the government shouldn't be interfering with private businesses and medical issues, is more of the reason why I'm not thrilled with the bill.
and what if the intention of the bill is to make it so hard and inconvenient for women to get a abortion in the state of Texas, that it becomes in effect, impossible to get a abortion in the state of Texas. the pro-lifers cannot ban Abortion, the only thing they can do is make it impossible for women to get a abortion.
 

Zyphlin

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and what if the intention of the bill is to make it so hard and inconvenient for women to get a abortion in the state of Texas, that it becomes in effect, impossible to get a abortion in the state of Texas.
I don't care if that's necessarily what some would "like" the bill to do.

As it stands, I don't see anything about this bill that would make it "impossible", literal or "in effect", to get an abortion if you live in the state of texas.
 

Dr. Chuckles

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so I guess that means that these other clinics , if they wish to remain in the business of abortion, will now have to make changes that will put them in compliance with the law... correct?

come on man, you're a liberal... you love the idea of regulating business and forcing them to comply ;)
one of the issues with the bill is that it's requiring clinics that simply administer the morning after pill to comply with such regulations. And if there is a lack of anything invasive going on, in such activity, I fail to see the need in regulating them at the same level as a surgical facility.

With that said, I'm also at a loss for people pushing for circumstances similar to what we had in PA, where abortion clinics are deemed exempt from oversight.

For me, there seems a reasonable middle ground to be navigated between the two
 

Dr. Chuckles

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let me explain via a analogy. Nutmeg graters are only good for one thing, grating nutmeg. you can't expect a nutmeg grater to grate cheese or other things that a regular grater can accomplish, and you can't force it to do it . abortion clinics are the nutmeg graters in my analogy: they only perform abortions and only have the resources to accomplish that task.

Forcing Abortion clinics to comply to the same standards and requirements of surgical ambulatory clinics is a example of unnecessary regulations
No it's not. In fact, the lack of such standards in PA was credited by the GJR as the basis for the continued operation of Gosnell.
 

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