Twitter sued in Germany over antisemitic posts

[j brown's body]

... and a question for you. We don't teach the Christian doctrine of creationism in public school science classes. Does that mean it's "banned?"

Is it science?

 

[Fearandloathing]

This is going to become a practical impossibility for a social media platform to conform to nation specific hate speech laws seeing such disparity nation to nation. Lawsuits nation to nation may speed up design aspects for these platforms but I sense the speed of political whim will collide with practical design.

What disparity?
It's the US that is out of step with the rest of the world.

 

[NatMorton]

I don't think a teacher would assign such a book or even hand it out without parental notification.

A dodge, and I think we see who's having problems with the facts. To news search on that title. The book as been free available in some public school libraries.

I do not consider it pornographic because it is part of a story that's purpose is to cause sexual excitement. It is in an award winning book.

There we differ greatly. That is pornographic.

Others certainly disagree, and they are free to not read and to tell their own kids not to read it.

You keep dodging the issue. It's whether others can assign that to my child or whether my tax dollars should fund that promotion of that material.

I would only approve of it in a high school library. "Age appropriate" is also a vague term, but the specific contents of this book make such a judgement pretty easy. That is not the case with many other books that are being banned.

I'm glad to see you have some standards. What do you think a school should do if a teacher assigned to a group fourth graders?

 

[BlueTex]

I'm not sure I understand the full context of that passage, nor do I wish to spend the time to read all the material necessary to get that context. So for the sake of discussion, I'll says this:

1. If a WV public school librarian can be legally fired for removing from the shelves all books deemed favorable to, say, Democratic party policies, I have no problem with that.
   
   
2. If a WV public school librarian can be legally fined or imprisoned for removing from the shelves those same books, I have a problem with that.

Clear?

LMAO...

Here is the "full context"...

Island Trees Sch. Dist. v. Pico by Pico, 457 U.S. 853 (1982)

Island Trees Sch. Dist. v. Pico by Pico

supreme.justia.com

 

[Rogue Valley]

 

[BlueTex]

... and a question for you. We don't teach the Christian doctrine of creationism in public school science classes. Does that mean it's "banned?"

Would that violate the first amendment rights of non-Christians?

 

[NatMorton]

Would that violate the first amendment rights of non-Christians?

Absolutely not. Again, why are you struggling with this?

Or is this just another clumsy attempt to get me to show political bias?

 

[Fishking]

Twitter sued over antisemitic posts left online​

Twitter is basically failing to remove posts attacking Jews and denying the Holocausts. And by not taking action on these posts Twitter is in violation of German law, and thus sued by the European Union of Jewish Students (EUJS), and the German anti- hate speech organization HateAid. Hate speech laws in several countries are much stricter than in the US, and Twitter risks being found in violation of several laws in several countries for not moderating their site to filter it out.

Germans are in violation of accessing a US company's product that's in violation of their laws.

 

[Roadvirus]

Twitter sued over antisemitic posts left online​

Twitter is basically failing to remove posts attacking Jews and denying the Holocausts. And by not taking action on these posts Twitter is in violation of German law, and thus sued by the European Union of Jewish Students (EUJS), and the German anti- hate speech organization HateAid. Hate speech laws in several countries are much stricter than in the US, and Twitter risks being found in violation of several laws in several countries for not moderating their site to filter it out.

A site that has millions of messages an hour can't keep track of them all. They require assistance from other users to flag/report them to make a decision on removal of the post and/or the poster.

 

[BlueTex]

Germans are in violation of accessing a US company's product that's in violation of their laws.

Twitter sells advertising in Germany… not gonna fly

 

[Fearandloathing]

Germans are in violation of accessing a US company's product that's in violation of their laws.

You have a law degree in Germany?

I love how Americans are always telling how other country's how to run themselves.

Tell you what. Bring the child death toll from hand guns to zero over 36 months and maybe people will listen.

 

[Visbek]

That's a fair argument, but this is also a matter of principle for me. That Germany has shown restraint being handed (IMO) excessive authority over free speech is admirable, but it's not a risk I would want to take here.

I regret to inform you that your two sentences conflict. If it is a matter of principle, then potential outcomes shouldn't matter.

And it's not like the US has been a bastion of radical free speech for centuries. The US has frequently restricted speech, starting right off the bat with the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1789; increased restrictions during wartime; strict regulation of obscenity up through the 70s; frequent attacks on NEA funding and hearings on labeling music in the 80s; current right-wingers yanking books from library shelves, and so on.

And that doesn't include private sector censorship such as the Hays Code, the ACMP / CCA, the MPAA, RIAA labels...

 

[Visbek]

A site that has millions of messages an hour can't keep track of them all.

Please.

German law requires that social media sites remove Holocaust denial posts when someone complains. The groups bringing the lawsuit did in fact complain about posts, and Twitter removed almost none of them.

By the way, Musk has eviscerated moderation teams, despite knowing (or having a responsibility to know) about Germany's laws -- and his own proclamation that Twitter will follow the laws of the nations where it operates. Even before he took over, Twitter wasn't always doing a good job. Volume is not an excuse for insufficient moderation, and firing people does not excuse violations of the law.

 

[NatMorton]

I regret to inform you that your two sentences conflict. If it is a matter of principle, then potential outcomes shouldn't matter.

And it's not like the US has been a bastion of radical free speech for centuries. The US has frequently restricted speech, starting right off the bat with the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1789; increased restrictions during wartime; strict regulation of obscenity up through the 70s; frequent attacks on NEA funding and hearings on labeling music in the 80s; current right-wingers yanking books from library shelves, and so on.

And that doesn't include private sector censorship such as the Hays Code, the ACMP / CCA, the MPAA, RIAA labels...

Sorry, no, don't think those two sentences conflict.

Second, that we're not perfect doesn't mean we are as casual about free speech rights as the EU sometimes seems to be My point that we have stronger free speech protections here than in Europe stands.

 

[trouble13]

Germany had better be careful. They may find themselves being hated by German citizens who are pissed off when Musk pulls Twitter out of their country.

My first thought was that Twitter should pull out of Germany and force them to use a vpn if they want to use Twitter.

That said Twitter also has to respect German laws if they want to do business in their country.

 

[trouble13]

One does get the sense that the only nation on the planet that values free speech is the United States.

Even here it is becoming debatable.

 

[Doppelgangirl]

One does get the sense that the only nation on the planet that values free speech is the United States.

If the US treated slavery like the Germans treat Nazis, we might not be in the middle of a cluster****.

 

[Hamish Howl]

No, I am not an anti-semite.

lol

 

[Fishking]

You have a law degree in Germany?

I love how Americans are always telling how other country's how to run themselves.

Tell you what. Bring the child death toll from hand guns to zero over 36 months and maybe people will listen.

It's their laws, for their people. They and stfu and be mad about it. The US can always pull all our military out of Europe so they aren't sucking money out of us like a parasite. Same can go for Canada, defend yourself.

 

[NatMorton]

If the US treated slavery like the Germans treat Nazis, we might not be in the middle of a cluster****.

Does that really make sense to you?

 

[NatMorton]

lol

When you’re ready to join the adult-level conversation, let us know.

 

[joluoto]

A site that has millions of messages an hour can't keep track of them all. They require assistance from other users to flag/report them to make a decision on removal of the post and/or the poster.

Except Twitter doesn't really react on flagging/ reporting anymore as they used to.

 

[Chagos]

The question is not whether they have "the right" to ban free speech; a nation can enact such laws. The question is the wisdom in doing so.

In the US, would you see someone arrested for calling BIden a "demented white cracker?" Or Harris a "mixed blood know-nothing?" Those statements would certainly qualify as racist hate speech.

Let me direct you back to the actual path, namely that this issue is not about what is tweeted in the US by US citizens and has no repercussions on whatever the US deigns to be covered by "free speech",

As you will surely be reminded if you look again at what forum you're in.

In which context you'll probably also agree that Germany, for very obvious historical reasons, has a higher sensitivity towards Jew-hating blatherings than the US deems appropriate as cause for curbing speech.

Just as much as every country can handle the concept of free speech by its own laws (as you already point out), the wisdom of "interference" in that concept is also not for any other country to decide upon.

Be that the US superimposing its take on others (which it doesn't) or any European country, let alone all of them, superimposing its/their take on the US (which isn't happening either).

 

[Chagos]

Private social networking sites have nothing to do with free speech.

Well yeah, that gets kinda lost in the national outcry.

So thanks.

 

[Chagos]

It is easy to live without twitter as all those German citizens may soon discover. I don't have a twitter account and never will.

In my book at least one German town really blew it, when they installed LEDs down into the pavement at pedestrian crossings, warning the cell phone and tablet twits that their traffic light further up was going either red or green.

The last idiot of that species that I let bump into me because s/he couldn't be bothered to look up while walking, dropped his/her friggin' phone to the floor.

I hope it was damaged beyond repair.