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Turns Out There's a Jewish Element Over Ukraine

XDU said:
Independence only matters in international law if it has legitimacy. The point is to establish that legitimacy.
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Russia is part of the UN and the UN recognizes Ukraine as a nation. There's your source of legitimacy.
 
XDU said:
I won't disagree with that, but it just weakens the idea of recognizing autonomous republics as justification for independence.
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How about Ukraine is a independent nation recognized by the international community.
 
XDU said:
There is no clear quantity of time for how long a bar must be cleared. We study and uphold history to qualify if that bar has been cleared instead.
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Wherever that line is Ukraine crossed it a long time ago. We aren't in some fuzzy gray zone. Ukraine is a clearly established country as any. It has a more valid claim to being a legitimate state than like a good third of other existing countries. Casting doubt on their legitimacy of being independent, especially when that is clearly what Ukrainians want, it borderline dishonest at this point.
 
joluoto said:
How about Ukraine is a independent nation recognized by the international community.
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People can recognize things illegitimately. The mere act of recognition doesn't justify recognition.
 
vegas giants said:
Russia also recognizes ukraine as a country and has a embassy there
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Mmm... the Soviet Union recognized Ukraine before the Soviet Union ended. Russia inherited the Soviet Union's institutions.
 
vegas giants said:
In your opinion
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An opinion is something like, "I like apple pie."

I never stated a personally held naturally caused response to a stimulus.
 
XDU said:
An opinion is something like, "I like apple pie."

I never stated a personally held naturally caused response to a stimulus.
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But you stated a opinion on ukraine
 
XDU said:
People can recognize things illegitimately. The mere act of recognition doesn't justify recognition.
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No, when a country is recognized it's legitimate.

How about this? Finland did not exist before 1917. Is Finland a real country? Should Finland exist?
 
XDU said:
People can recognize things illegitimately. The mere act of recognition doesn't justify recognition.
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Give it up, you just logiced yourself into a corner with this legitimacy thing.
 
tacomancer said:
Russia is part of the UN and the UN recognizes Ukraine as a nation. There's your source of legitimacy.
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That ignores how institutions can be mistaken. Institutions are composed of people who are fallible. It's important to engage in historical review to make sure what's been done in the past indeed was the correct course of action.
 
XDU said:
Mmm... the Soviet Union recognized Ukraine before the Soviet Union ended. Russia inherited the Soviet Union's institutions.
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Russia made a choice to recognize ukraine and renewed that choice every year
 
XDU said:
That ignores how institutions can be mistaken. Institutions are composed of people who are fallible. It's important to engage in historical review to make sure what's been done in the past indeed was the correct course of action.
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Correct in your opinion
 
Nomad4Ever said:
Wherever that line is Ukraine crossed it a long time ago. We aren't in some fuzzy gray zone. Ukraine is a clearly established country as any. It has a more valid claim to being a legitimate state than like a good third of other existing countries. Casting doubt on their legitimacy of being independent, especially when that is clearly what Ukrainians want, it borderline dishonest at this point.
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What I'm saying is there is no quantity of time upon which we can say the line was crossed because it's entirely a matter of opinion to quantify it.

Legitimacy must be based on qualitative events. Otherwise, we're just playing favorites over how long is long enough.
 
XDU said:
That ignores how institutions can be mistaken. Institutions are composed of people who are fallible. It's important to engage in historical review to make sure what's been done in the past indeed was the correct course of action.
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Enjoy your little logic rabbit hole here. I have had similar experiences late night at Denny's back during my college years with the help of a certain mind altering chemical that made me hungry as well.

The simple fact is that multiple examples of legitimacy have been given to you.
 
tacomancer said:
Give it up, you just logiced yourself into a corner with this legitimacy thing.
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If we don't define this by legitimacy, then all we're saying is international law is a battle of opinions.

That would validate any action Russia wants to take to invade and reduce the situation to might makes right which defeats the purpose of international law to avert anarchy.
 
XDU said:
What I'm saying is there is no quantity of time upon which we can say the line was crossed because it's entirely a matter of opinion to quantify it.

Legitimacy must be based on qualitative events. Otherwise, we're just playing favorites over how long is long enough.
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One day is enough if the world supports it
 
XDU said:
If we don't define this by legitimacy, then all we're saying is international law is a battle of opinions.

That would validate any action Russia wants to take to invade and reduce the situation to might makes right which defeats the purpose of international law to avert anarchy.
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If we don't define the sky by color, then we are all saying that the electromagnetic spectrum is a battle of opinions.

That would validate any action astrologers want to take to declare and reduce the situation to any color which defeats the purpose of knowing its the color blue.
 
joluoto said:
No, when a country is recognized it's legitimate.

How about this? Finland did not exist before 1917. Is Finland a real country? Should Finland exist?
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Finland explicitly declared independence when the Russian Revolution happened in opposition to communism.

Ukraine declared independence in support of communism.
 
XDU said:
Finland explicitly declared independence when the Russian Revolution happened in opposition to communism.

Ukraine declared independence in support of communism.
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Again....in your opinion
 
tacomancer said:
If we don't define the sky by color, then we are all saying that the electromagnetic spectrum is a battle of opinions.

That would validate any action astrologers want to take to declare and reduce the situation to any color which defeats the purpose of knowing its the color blue.
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I'm not disagreeing there, but that spectrum is an evaluation of natural phenomena.

The independence of manmade states by definition is not natural phenomena.
 
Are there any space lasers involved with this?
 
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