Turns Out There's a Jewish Element Over Ukraine (1 Viewer)

[XDU]

Khmelnytsky Uprising - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Treading lightly here, but yea, if you consider neoconservative foreign policy which has Trotskyite connections going back to the New York Intellectuals, then you have to consider this pogrom that happened which aligned the Cossacks to Russia.

In turn, it might be prudent to read this: https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/04/ukraine.html

 

[Parrish]

Fakakta.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

I actually have no idea what you're implying here. This feels like you're putting dots on a map at seemingly random, and expecting us to connect them in the right order. My best guess is that you're implying that Ukraine was invented by the Jews to destroy the Cossacks or something.

 

[Felis Leo]

I actually have no idea what you're implying here. This feels like you're putting dots on a map at seemingly random, and expecting us to connect them in the right order. My best guess is that you're implying that Ukraine was invented by the Jews to destroy the Cossacks or something.

I knew it!

 

[Brochacholomigo]

I knew it!

I'm even more befuddled now that I've seen some of their other posts, and realized they're a socialist. This is just completely incomprehensible, I can't figure out if they're calling out Trotsky for being a Jew or applauding him for supporting Ukrainian Jewish minorities in their struggle against Cossacks from the 1650's.

 

[joluoto]

Ah, the old: "Bolsheviks were all Jews, just look at Trotsky", combined with "Communism and Capitalism are both part of the Jewish conspiracy". And now we get: "Russia is just trying to protect the world from the Jews". I will say that, Putin is alot of things, but even he is not a rampart antisemitist, though he doesn't mind allying with them.

 

[XDU]

I actually have no idea what you're implying here. This feels like you're putting dots on a map at seemingly random, and expecting us to connect them in the right order. My best guess is that you're implying that Ukraine was invented by the Jews to destroy the Cossacks or something.

Now is not the time for trolling. This is a serious historical problem. It could establish a definite right and wrong side in the current Ukrainian situation.

What I'm expecting is curiosity to explore intrigue. The situation is complicated.

More information can be found here: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3650068

Jesuit Historiography Online

"Jesuit Historiography Online" published on 04 Aug 2016 by Brill.

referenceworks.brillonline.com

 

[Monica33]

Far too complex for this lot , OP .

Without any doubt the influences you suggest are 100% accurate .
But you would need to run real history classes for several months to outline the various backgrounds, and latterly with key figures like Lenin and Marx show them to be 100% Jewish , Jewish sponsored and utterly Fake .

For those who are compliant and MSM conditioned, the narrative jumps are too huge to be presented in threads like these with any chance of productive discussion .
They could not even understand the Expanding Earth theory which I floated recently. And right or wrong , that is kids stuff relative to this underlying topic . imho .

 

[joluoto]

Far too complex for this lot , OP .

Without any doubt the influences you suggest are 100% accurate .
But you would need to run real history classes for several months to outline the various backgrounds, and latterly with key figures like Lenin and Marx show them to be 100% Jewish , Jewish sponsored and utterly Fake .

For those who are compliant and MSM conditioned, the narrative jumps are too huge to be presented in threads like these with any chance of productive discussion .
They could not even understand the Expanding Earth theory which I floated recently. And right or wrong , that is kids stuff relative to this underlying topic . imho .

Oh yes, please bring up the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and the Stab in the Back myth when you're at it. The lügenpresse of course is under control of Jewish capital and thus must be dismissed as an enemy of the German race. Göbbels wouldn't have it any other way.

​

 

[Slartibartfast]

Even if the Jewish connection was real or made sense, the article appears to reference an event in 1648 ... anyone who is concerned with rectifying an issue that old today needs to find a purpose in life.

Unless there are demographics still facing oppression as a result of those issues (this happens a lot all over the globe and repression should be addressed as a today issue), then the simple fact is that everyone involved has probably fully decayed at this point, so it no longer matters.

People who are concerned with issues that old need a better focus. If they are willing to go to war over issues that old, they should never be near power.

 

[joluoto]

Even if the Jewish connection was real or made sense, the article appears to reference an event in 1648 ... anyone who is concerned with rectifying an issue that old today needs to find a purpose in life.

And in 1648 what we today call Ukraine was disputed between the Polish- Lithuanina Commonwealth, the Russian Empire and various Cossacks (that sometimes backed PLC, some times Russia and sometimes just did their own thing). Basically not relevant at all in today's discussion since a Ukrainian national identity was not yet a thing (because the whole idea of national identities were barely a thing).

 

[XDU]

Even if the Jewish connection was real or made sense, the article appears to reference an event in 1648 ... anyone who is concerned with rectifying an issue that old today needs to find a purpose in life.

Unless there are demographics still facing oppression as a result of those issues (this happens a lot all over the globe and repression should be addressed as a today issue), then the simple fact is that everyone involved has probably fully decayed at this point, so it no longer matters.

People who are concerned with issues that old need a better focus. If they are willing to go to war over issues that old, they should never be near power.

The problem is there is no history of Ukrainian independence after this history. All we have to go on in the modern era is the communist party declaring independence in 1991 to maintain its ideology when it saw the writing on the wall from the hardliner coup failing against the New Union Treaty.

There is no good reason to believe Ukraine should be an independent country.

 

[XDU]

And in 1648 what we today call Ukraine was disputed between the Polish- Lithuanina Commonwealth, the Russian Empire and various Cossacks (that sometimes backed PLC, some times Russia and sometimes just did their own thing). Basically not relevant at all in today's discussion since a Ukrainian national identity was not yet a thing (because the whole idea of national identities were barely a thing).

Ukrainian national identity depends on that time period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalism#Background

After that, there's no good reason to treat Ukraine as anymore than a stateless autonomous culture within Imperial Russia.

In fact, it is that time period when the national interest got established within the 30 Years' War and the Treaty of Westphalia signed in 1648. The Khmelnytsky Uprising happened from 1648 to 1657.

​

 

[Slartibartfast]

The problem is there is no history of Ukrainian independence after this history. All we have to go on in the modern era is the communist party declaring independence in 1991 to maintain its ideology when it saw the writing on the wall from the hardliner coup failing against the New Union Treaty.

There is no good reason to believe Ukraine should be an independent country.

There you go, 1991. That's all that's needed to know its an independent country.

 

[XDU]

There you go, 1991. That's all that's needed to know its an independent country.

It wasn't independent for the sake of Ukraine. It was independent for the sake of communism.

That communism was immediately illegalized in Ukraine afterwards in the decommunization of Ukraine.

At best, it suggests Ukraine confessed to its own hypocrisy over independence.

At worst, it suggests tolerance for communism as a legitimate source of independence which is even worse from how communism destroyed Ukraine from Holodomor.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

anyone who is concerned with rectifying an issue that old today needs to find a purpose in life.

Hmmmmm. Interesting that you feel this way.
Very interesting.
Thank you for that interesting info.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It wasn't independent for the sake of Ukraine. It was independent for the sake of communism.

That communism was immediately illegalized in Ukraine afterwards in the decommunization of Ukraine.

At best, it suggests Ukraine confessed to its own hypocrisy over independence.

At worst, it suggests tolerance for communism as a legitimate source of independence which is even worse from how communism destroyed Ukraine from Holodomor.

All of those details are irrelevant. It became its own country in 1991.

 

[joluoto]

Ukrainian national identity depends on that time period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalism#Background

After that, there's no good reason to treat Ukraine as anymore than a stateless autonomous culture within Imperial Russia.

In fact, it is that time period when the national interest got established within the 30 Years' War and the Treaty of Westphalia signed in 1648. The Khmelnytsky Uprising happened from 1648 to 1657.

​

Ukraine is a country. Has been since 1917/ 1991. Even in the USSR it was an SSR, meaning it was recognized as separate from Russia.

 

[XDU]

Ukraine is a country. Has been since 1917/ 1991. Even in the USSR it was an SSR, meaning it was recognized as separate from Russia.

The Soviet Union's concept of republics was comparable to autonomous provinces in a federation like how we have different states in the United States. That doesn't mean they were recognized as independent nations.

 

[XDU]

All of those details are irrelevant. It became its own country in 1991.

Independence only matters in international law if it has legitimacy. The point is to establish that legitimacy.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Independence only matters in international law if it has legitimacy. The point is to establish that legitimacy.

Oh well...Ukraine has had that bar cleared for some time now.

 

[joluoto]

The Soviet Union's concept of republics was comparable to autonomous provinces in a federation like how we have different states in the United States. That doesn't mean they were recognized as independent nations.

On the contrary, the whole idea with the "republics" was to create a illusion of nations, the idea that Communism truly was an international ideology, and that the USSR wasn't a Russian ethnic empire.

 

[XDU]

Oh well...Ukraine has had that bar cleared for some time now.

There is no clear quantity of time for how long a bar must be cleared. We study and uphold history to qualify if that bar has been cleared instead.

 

[XDU]

On the contrary, the whole idea with the "republics" was to create a illusion of nations, the idea that Communism truly was an international ideology, and that the USSR wasn't a Russian ethnic empire.

I won't disagree with that, but it just weakens the idea of recognizing autonomous republics as justification for independence.

 

[vegas giants]

Independence only matters in international law if it has legitimacy. The point is to establish that legitimacy.

And it was established