Turkish anger as German MPs prepare to vote on Armenian genocide

[Chagos]

what are they upset about? turks did murder millions of armenians in the early 20th century, that's fact.

Well, estimates range between 900 thou and 1.5 million. But that's would be like arguing whether the holocaust had 3 million, 4, 5 or 6 million victims. In other words hardly relevant in view of any total scope.

 

[joG]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

Yeah, a somewhat mild euphemism, I'd agree. Apart from German high command being pretty well informed, indignant protests reaching Berlin from many German non-military in Turkey at the time (engineers, doctors, nurses, diplomats even) went totally unheeded. That's what I meant with "looking the other way".
no beef with any of that, I just wished to point out how the two are not comparable.

Symbolism, nothing more.

Not unimportant but not of any immediate practical impact either.

And as Zimmerer points out today and Özdemier did yesterday, the Bundestag is measuring on a double standard by not censoring the Kaiser's treatment of the Herero and Nama, where it was definitely genocide and not merely a Crime against Humanity.

Oh well. So it goes. The symbolism is poignantly revealing, indeed.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

And as Zimmerer points out today and Özdemier did yesterday, the Bundestag is measuring on a double standard by not censoring the Kaiser's treatment of the Herero and Nama, where it was definitely genocide and not merely a Crime against Humanity.

Oh well. So it goes. The symbolism is poignantly revealing, indeed.

Yeah. Nobody should complain about genocide or condemn it, ever, because your country did something just as bad back in the day, right?

 

[joG]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

Yeah. Nobody should complain about genocide or condemn it, ever, because your country did something just as bad back in the day, right?

That is not the point at all. Maybe you would like to revisit the topic?

 

[Red_Dave]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

Weird timing indeed. I wonder what the Germans are scheming. Perhaps they feel it's time for the stick to make its appearance after the unsatisfactory performance of the carrot.

I´d assumed someone on the German side was unhappy with the deal and wanted to throw a spanner in the works (somewhat ingeniously)

Even so, is it not somewhat disturbing that we´ve somehow decided its ok to legislate historical truth? Shouldn´t it be up for historians to decide in an open debate? I.E something that is now impossible now that there are legal issues in doing so both in Turkey and in a number of European states. And remember its not just crazed Turcophiles who dispute the Armenian version of events, look at Bernard Lewis for example.

 

[Chagos]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

I´d assumed someone on the German side was unhappy with the deal and wanted to throw a spanner in the works (somewhat ingeniously)

Even so, is it not somewhat disturbing that we´ve somehow decided its ok to legislate historical truth? Shouldn´t it be up for historians to decide in an open debate? I.E something that is now impossible now that there are legal issues in doing so both in Turkey and in a number of European states. And remember its not just crazed Turcophiles who dispute the Armenian version of events, look at Bernard Lewis for example.

Yeah, let the historians argue about it and write it down in their books and forever argue over those as well.

Meanwhile everybody else forget about it. After all it's not just crazed die-hard Nazis that dispute the Holocaust ever occurring.

 

[Red_Dave]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

Yeah, let the historians argue about it and write it down in their books and forever argue over those as well.

Meanwhile everybody else forget about it. After all it's not just crazed die-hard Nazis that dispute the Holocaust ever occurring.

Everyone has can say what they want about it without having parliaments make the decision for them (often by force, by forbidding any dissenting opinions)

 

[Medusa]

France killed millions of Algerians but who cares....

 

[Chagos]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

Everyone has can say what they want about it without having parliaments make the decision for them (often by force, by forbidding any dissenting opinions)

There isn't any noteworthy dissent iin Germany over the genocide against Armenians.

 

[Chagos]

France killed millions of Algerians but who cares....

Apart from that being a BS figure, this thread isn't about France.

It's not about Algeria either.

 

[Chagos]

Meanwhile the daft narcissistic Sultan has gone down the tu quoque road, demanding that Germany answer for its part in the Holocaust and the slaughter of Herreros in what was then German South West Africa (Namibia of today).

Demonstrating that his childhood and youth provided little by way of adequate education and that the resulting deficits have not been addressed in adult life.

That description being BTW just an assessment of the impression given, one may reasonably assume that he knows full well the extent to which Germany has been addressing both for decades.

It's just the old ploy of sop-throwing to the gallery, a ploy older than even Nazi practices.

As can be seen by a previous response, it works.

For Erdogan that is, not for the country or the Turks.

 

[Tigerace117]

France killed millions of Algerians but who cares....

And the point is?

What does France's actions in Algeria have to do with Germany acknowledging that another country committed a genocide.

 

[Red_Dave]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

There isn't any noteworthy dissent iin Germany over the genocide against Armenians.

Which one would expect given its illegality, among those who have studied the issue most are somewhere in the middle, (which is generally where the truth lies regarding a number of historical events where to debate is too polarized to be of any use)

 

[Chagos]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

The would-be Sultan has also reached such heights of hysteria as to call German MPs of Turkish roots an extension of the PKK. In addition he calls their stance un-Turkish and has called for a blood test to show that their blood has been contaminated somewhere along the way.

What an idiot.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

The would-be Sultan has also reached such heights of hysteria as to call German MPs of Turkish roots an extension of the PKK. In addition he calls their stance un-Turkish and has called for a blood test to show that their blood has been contaminated somewhere along the way.

What an idiot.

He is, before anything else, one big idiot.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: German MPs recognise Armenian 'genocide' amid Turkish fury

Why Germany?

Of all the countries in the world...

I-I literally almost cannot take this whole geopolitics thing seriously. It is like world leaders are trying to look absolutely ****ing insane.

 

[Peter King]

Looks like there is no beginning of a great "friendship":roll: .

The resolution passed the German parliament today (not unexpectedly) so now one will have to see what Turkish "stoutness" is made of.

Turkish anger as German MPs prepare to vote on Armenian genocide | World news | The Guardian

The idiotic Erdogan demanded blood tests on the Turkish German MP's who voted for the resolution that named the Armenian deaths a genocide.

He says these German Turks are not really Turks, he says they are supporters of the PKK terrorist movement and that he doubts that they are 100% Turkish. He wants to know if they were not part Kurdish or from Armenian descent.

He said: "Many people say that they are Turks, but what kind of Turks? Their blood needs to be studied in a laboratory.

Turkish newspapers who are in Erdogan's pocket are also going out full force. They are putting images of Merkel in the newspaper with Nazi regalia or a Hitler mustache.

 

[NO1]

It's time for Turkey to take responsbility about the genocide they committed, but when you see what Turkey does in the border with Syria it seems they never learn from the past, not even close.

 

[Medusa]

It's time for Turkey to take responsbility about the genocide they committed, but when you see what Turkey does in the border with Syria it seems they never learn from the past, not even close.

israel learnt any lesson ? Israel wanted to get rid of Assad and now you blame Turkey for your own international ambitions ?

 

[NO1]

israel learnt any lesson ? Israel wanted to get rid of Assad and now you blame Turkey for your own international ambitions ?

Your attempt to derail the thread is noted.

 

[Peter King]

Great news, the family of Mohammed Ali has removed Erdogan from the list of speakers at Ali's funeral.

 

[Gina]

israel learnt any lesson ? Israel wanted to get rid of Assad and now you blame Turkey for your own international ambitions ?

Moderator's Warning:

Gentle reminder. Here is the topic: Turkish anger as German MPs prepare to vote on Armenian genocide Not France, Israel or Assad. Please stick to the topic. Thank you.

 

[Medusa]

It's time for Turkey to take responsbility about the genocide they committed, but when you see what Turkey does in the border with Syria it seems they never learn from the past, not even close.

Turkey has so many enemies around and so called genocides will always help teh West divide my country if they can do their best

 

[Chagos]

Turkey has so many enemies around and so called genocides will always help teh West divide my country if they can do their best

This is not about any conspiracy theories that the Sultan and many governments before him have been successfully selling to the Turkish people, it's about the responsibilities of nations to own their past and that includes what was distasteful in it.

The way Germany has done with its very own past, something that Turkey clearly refuses to do when it comes to its own actions.

What's your take on the slaughter of Armenians in WWI?

So far all I can determine is you following the Sultan's rhetoric.

You going to regurgitate his slander of Turks living in Germany as well, on how their "Turkish blood" got corrupted? How all of them are an extension of the PKK?

 

[NO1]

Turkey has so many enemies around and so called genocides will always help teh West divide my country if they can do their best

Why the west want to divide your country?
I couldn't care less about Turkey and the despot the run it, but the Armenian genocide did happen and there are many documentation and evidence that support it.