Turkey does not want NATO missile defense to specifically target Iran

[CJ 2.0]

And can you give examples of Erdogan leading Turkey down the "wrong path"? He certainly has very conservative views but up until now he has expanded Democracy more than what it was under any previous leadership with the exception of the founding father.

I certainly do regard Erdogan as a threat to Turkish secularism but his ability to change Turkey into "Iran" is politically limited and such comparisons are hyperbole and nothing more.

Agree about turning Turkey into a full-blown Iranian type state, but I see Edrogan leading Turkey down the wrong path in almost every way. Weakening the judiciary, undermining secularism, distancing from the west while getting closer to middle eastern loser states, etc.

I actually fail to see anything positive he has done, except (arguably) gutting the military to ensure he can stay in power without regard to the Turkish constitution, which I get the Europeans didn't like much but frankly was designed to avoid exactly what is happening now.

 

[donsutherland1]

Indeed, Europe is to blame for Turkey's policy of "exploring" the East which is making some in the West uncomfortable...

If the EU had accepted Turkey in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005......what would Turkey be today?

While it is popular to speculate that Turkey would be on a fundamentally different course had the EU accepted Turkey, I'm not sure that is the case. IMO, Turkey's decisions represent how Turkey conceives its interests. Turkey is seeking to become a larger player in its region to safeguard its critical regional interests. Hence, even if Turkey were an EU member, I believe it would still be reaching out to Iran given Iran's status as a rising regional power. Moreover, I don't believe EU membership would have precluded Turkey's strategic decision to downgrade its relationship with Israel.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

While it is popular to speculate that Turkey would be on a fundamentally different course had the EU accepted Turkey, I'm not sure that is the case. IMO, Turkey's decisions represent how Turkey conceives its interests. Turkey is seeking to become a larger player in its region to safeguard its critical regional interests. Hence, even if Turkey were an EU member, I believe it would still be reaching out to Iran given Iran's status as a rising regional power. Moreover, I don't believe EU membership would have precluded Turkey's strategic decision to downgrade its relationship with Israel.

Turkey's main policy has been to have good relations with all of its neighboors if possible, that would include Iran. It has become friendlier with Greece, Syria, Russia, and Iran over the last few years to allow for a more open economic activities and less need for a military on high alert. Iran is just another part of that good neighboor policy. Turkish companies are now very active in Iraq (kurdish area's), Russia, Syria and starting to become active in Iran. In general this is more of an economic policy then political. Turkey is using its more open and more competitive economy to make inroads in business opportunities throughout the region.

As for Turkey's decision to downgrades its relationship with Israel. I expect that the main issue is of course the way Gaza is being handled, but its good neighbor policy is a strong aspect of it as well. Israel is a small potential market, Syria, Iran, Iraq etc are far larger potential markets for turkish companies and as such far more important to the future economic growth of Turkey then a good economic relationship with Israel. The main negatives for Turkey would be military equipment contracts that it may have wanted to form with Israel ( along the lines of upgrading the M-60 tanks that an Israel company took the lead on, or for UAVs). But given the growing number of potential suppliers for military equipment and an increasing domestic capability in Turkey, that issue is slowly decling in importance

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Agree about turning Turkey into a full-blown Iranian type state, but I see Edrogan leading Turkey down the wrong path in almost every way. Weakening the judiciary, undermining secularism, distancing from the west while getting closer to middle eastern loser states, etc.

I actually fail to see anything positive he has done, except (arguably) gutting the military to ensure he can stay in power without regard to the Turkish constitution, which I get the Europeans didn't like much but frankly was designed to avoid exactly what is happening now.

Erdogan I think has made very good policy decisions, including the recent changes to the Turkish constitution (exception to the expansion of the Constitutional court membera) the heavily enforced secularism was far too restrictive, far more so then what the US has. Not allowing a person to wear religious clothing on a university campus is too restrictive, just as forcing someone to wear religous clothing would be to restrictive. Allowing the option for students to make that decision is good.

Turkey under Erdogan has expanded minority rights, (a good thing) decreased the strength of the military to interfere in domestic politics (a good thing), has worked to get rid of the "deep state" (a cabal of military leaders who would use terrorism to influence domesitic politics and possibly cause military coups.

Overal the current Turkish leadership has done wonders for turkey, economically, politically (making it more of a true democratic state), and sociologically (increased minority rights). Even the way it fights the PKK has been improved. From the past where Turkey would burned down entire villages of potential PKK supports, to a far more selective use of force then in the past.

 

[kaya'08]

While it is popular to speculate that Turkey would be on a fundamentally different course had the EU accepted Turkey, I'm not sure that is the case. IMO, Turkey's decisions represent how Turkey conceives its interests. Turkey is seeking to become a larger player in its region to safeguard its critical regional interests. Hence, even if Turkey were an EU member, I believe it would still be reaching out to Iran given Iran's status as a rising regional power. Moreover, I don't believe EU membership would have precluded Turkey's strategic decision to downgrade its relationship with Israel.

These decisions where taken by the AKP administration. I'm not too sure if Turkey's current foreign policy strategy will serve its long term interests; i wager it will, if you take into account the changing financial demographics.

If secularism and democracy is safe guarded than i believe all will be well with Turkey but I'm not too sure that will be the case in the long run either. We shall see.

My point is, however; the AKP's success is based on the new Turkish political attitude that has inevitably risen as a result of EU policies (the engagement with the East), sparked by a resentment towards our more European "continent-folk" and there persistent rejection of Turkey. Would a need to pay more attention to the East exist if the West had paid its attention to Turkey to begin with? The AKP provided this opportunity of dialogue with the East simply because they where willing to do it and where not limited by the typical aspects of the Kemalist ideology.

Perhaps these strategic decisions in regards to the East and Israel (whatever you believe the motivations behind these are) would not have taken place if the need for the political attitude Erdogan represented had been removed through membership to the European Union (and thus seen another Turkish political party in power).

The secular grassroots CHP leadership has made his distaste for Erdogans "gun blazing" approach to Israel apparent before. And i talk about the new CHP leader, not Deniz Baykal, who stepped down after a sex tape scandal.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

Turkey is a sovereign state. The Turkish people can do whatever they want, and none of it is America's business.

America is a sovereign state. The American people can do whatever they want, and none of it is Turkey's business.

Turkish-American relations should be formal, correct and polite. But there is nothing to be gained by pretending that Turkey and America are friends and/or allies. American forces should all be withdrawn from Turkey immediately.

The NATO Treaty does not contain a provision for the expulsion of a member state from the alliance. But in spirit Turkey is no longer a NATO ally.

In fact, after the coming defeat in Afghanistan, NATO will itself become meaningless. Forget about a missile defense for Europe. There is no need to locate missile defenses in Europe or Turkey to protect the US. There is another place in which to locate the radars and interceptors.

 

[Mika-El]

Indeed, Europe is to blame for Turkey's policy of "exploring" the East which is making some in the West uncomfortable. I wouldn't say it is a natural result of domestic and regional politics but rather the result of continued rejection of Turkey by the family it has spent its 100 year life time seeking to join.
If the doors of one club are closed, Turkey will naturally look towards other clubs that will welcome it, once all other paths have been exhausted. But i think this is a long shot vision of Turkey decades down the line if the European Union fails to readjust its policies.

If the EU had accepted Turkey in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005......what would Turkey be today?
And while Greece threatens to bring the entire Eurozone down, deceives the union, continues on its path of recession and succumbs itself to left wing terrorism, why does Turkey still find itself knocking at the big blue doors?

America is not to blame. The US has done everything it can to include Turkey both politically and economically, but the EU is the major factor here, and the EU is the one that has failed Turkey. But the EU always was a xenephobic and discriminative organization.

Lol your avatar shows a young man. Your writings show a very well spoken and reasoned person. I love your writing style. You look 12 and write like a seasoned journalist or academic.

Excellent writing style. Very much enjoy it. I have a feeling I am talking with a future President or Professor. Good on you. I enjoy your posts. Keep it up.

 

[kaya'08]

Lol your avatar shows a young man. Your writings show a very well spoken and reasoned person. I love your writing style. You look 12 and write like a seasoned journalist or academic.

Excellent writing style. Very much enjoy it. I have a feeling I am talking with a future President or Professor. Good on you. I enjoy your posts. Keep it up.

Im 18, but thanks.

That made me laugh. :mrgreen: