Turkey carries out air attacks in Iraq

[Shayah]

Not even close, Shayah.

You're right. It would be darned difficult for Turkey top US interventions.

 

[jallman]

You're right. It would be darned difficult for Turkey top US interventions.

Or to murder civilians as prolifically as Israel. :shrug:

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

The one thing I can support Obama on is the coolness of his relations with Israel.

I think what we are seeing however, is the middle east seeing the US as weak on support of isreal and the actions of the counties in the ME..... Causing them to act haphazardly in thier quests for various things.

such as iranian nukes, Turkish anti-kurd movement, etc, etc...


I think what he's doing is showing weakness, and its going to lead us to problems in the future.,

 

[jallman]

I think what we are seeing however, is the middle east seeing the US as weak on support of isreal and the actions of the counties in the ME..... Causing them to act haphazardly in thier quests for various things.

such as iranian nukes, Turkish anti-kurd movement, etc, etc...


I think what he's doing is showing weakness, and its going to lead us to problems in the future.,

I would be all for him putting the smack down on other countries getting out of line. I make no judgment of support for him beyond his pulling back from twisting our foreign policy up with unrestrained support of Israel. That's the only thing I commend him on as far as the ME is concerned.

 

[Shayah]

The one thing I can support Obama on is the coolness of his relations with Israel.

That makes two of us.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I would be all for him putting the smack down on other countries getting out of line. I make no judgment of support for him beyond his pulling back from twisting our foreign policy up with unrestrained support of Israel. That's the only thing I commend him on as far as the ME is concerned.

I can respect that.


I think isreal and whoever should have it out. less people would die in the long run. :thumbs:

 

[jallman]

I can respect that.


I think isreal and whoever should have it out. less people would die in the long run. :thumbs:

That's what I have been saying in another thread. Israel is taking this slow bleed method of subjugating the Palestinians and it has been a long, drawn out, and inhumane treatment of an entire people. If they would just get on with it and do what they are going to do, then the world could begin to move past it. However, I hope they don't count on US support in their endeavor and I would hope the US doesn't give it to them.

I don't protest, really, but that's something that would have me out in the streets if we did support it.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

That's what I have been saying in another thread. Israel is taking this slow bleed method of subjugating the Palestinians and it has been a long, drawn out, and inhumane treatment of an entire people. If they would just get on with it and do what they are going to do, then the world could begin to move past it. However, I hope they don't count on US support in their endeavor and I would hope the US doesn't give it to them.

I don't protest, really, but that's something that would have me out in the streets if we did support it.

dood, you need to have a N. Korea flag if you do..... :2razz:

 

[jallman]

dood, you need to have a N. Korea flag if you do..... :2razz:

I'm sure there's a really good joke there but I am missing it. Giving up coffee has kinda sucked...not quite as quick in the mornings as I used to be.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I'm sure there's a really good joke there but I am missing it. Giving up coffee has kinda sucked...not quite as quick in the mornings as I used to be.

during the war protests of 2004, some carried n. korean flags and what not.

 

[jallman]

during the war protests of 2004, some carried n. korean flags and what not.

Oh gotcha. Pfft...I would go all out and carry a Pol Pot poster and a Che Guevera t-shirt.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I think what we are seeing however, is the middle east seeing the US as weak on support of isreal and the actions of the counties in the ME..... Causing them to act haphazardly in thier quests for various things.

such as iranian nukes, Turkish anti-kurd movement, etc, etc...


I think what he's doing is showing weakness, and its going to lead us to problems in the future.,

Turkey today regarding Kurds is much nicer then it was in the past

It enacted a scorched earth policy in the past destroying kurdish towns and villages. Leading to around 600 000 refugees. The current Turkish government is doing a much better job targetting the PKK rather then punishing non militant Kurds.

Also the Turskish government is generally now far more democratic then it has been in the past. The power of the Turkish military when it comes to domestic Turkish politics has been weakened dramatically over the last 7 years. Weak support by the US for Israel would not change much going on in Turkey today, as the military leadership that would probably cause the change have been arrested for plotting vs the Turkish democratic government

 

[kaya'08]

Also Reverend check out the Kurdish initiative.

In the past, Kurds where not allowed to speak Kurdish on TV!
Now, they have there own channels, radio stations and they have been allowed to rename some of the villages in Eastern Turkey with Kurdish names.

Also, universities have started to open Kurdish language lessons. This was IMPOSSIBLE just 5 years ago. Its amazing how we claim Erdogan is turning Turkey into Iran when he has actually advanced the nation democratically than any previous kemalist government. Dont get me wrong, i still dont think his intentions are sincere.

 

[joergan]

Turkey today regarding Kurds is much nicer then it was in the past

It enacted a scorched earth policy in the past destroying kurdish towns and villages. Leading to around 600 000 refugees. The current Turkish government is doing a much better job targetting the PKK rather then punishing non militant Kurds.

Also the Turskish government is generally now far more democratic then it has been in the past. The power of the Turkish military when it comes to domestic Turkish politics has been weakened dramatically over the last 7 years. Weak support by the US for Israel would not change much going on in Turkey today, as the military leadership that would probably cause the change have been arrested for plotting vs the Turkish democratic government

You are joking, yes? See acts of "Chavez-like "democracy" here:

Central Asia-Caucasus Institute and Silk Road Studies Program

"THE DECLINE OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN TURKEY

Tülin Daloğlu

On February 16, Turkey's largest media company, the Dogan Media Group, was fined nearly $500 million for an alleged late tax payment. Tax laws are complicated, and the exact circumstances of the matter are unclear. The troubling point is that this follows on five months of public bullying of the Dogan group by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Since September, he has repeatedly asked his followers to boycott DMG's newspapers. The tax investigation into the Dogan group, moreover, began only a few weeks after the opening of a court case to close the governing AKP. Erdogan argues that the tax case is a matter not of press freedom but of tax evasion, yet the fine can hardly be defended as "business as usual.""

And

"An atmosphere of fear and intimidation has been spreading among Turkish journalists and thinkers. “A journalist who works at a media organization that goes through a police investigation always feels under pressure," as said Yilmaz Polat, ART's Washington correspondent. He is giving a voice to the fears shared by numerous journalists who work for DMG or other outlets that do not toe the AKP’s line.

Journalists do not practice their craft to become wealthy; most of them do not make much money. If they feel intimidated, they may choose to stay on the safe side in an intimidating environment – and the precedent would be set. After all, the government is currently going after Turkey's largest media group and its owner – who pays 11 percent of Istanbul's tax income.

The growing pressure on Turkish media freedom has not gone unnoticed."

=============================

Erdogan is a fraud, and like Chavez, Castro, iran fascist leadership and other verminous dictators, will hopefully soon be thrown from office, perhaps even tried for Crimes Against Humanity for its illegal indiscriminate bombing campaigns in Northern Iraq.

 

[kaya'08]

You are joking, yes? See acts of "Chavez-like "democracy" here:

Central Asia-Caucasus Institute and Silk Road Studies Program

"THE DECLINE OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN TURKEY

Tülin Daloğlu

On February 16, Turkey's largest media company, the Dogan Media Group, was fined nearly $500 million for an alleged late tax payment. Tax laws are complicated, and the exact circumstances of the matter are unclear. The troubling point is that this follows on five months of public bullying of the Dogan group by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Since September, he has repeatedly asked his followers to boycott DMG's newspapers. The tax investigation into the Dogan group, moreover, began only a few weeks after the opening of a court case to close the governing AKP. Erdogan argues that the tax case is a matter not of press freedom but of tax evasion, yet the fine can hardly be defended as "business as usual.""

And

"An atmosphere of fear and intimidation has been spreading among Turkish journalists and thinkers. “A journalist who works at a media organization that goes through a police investigation always feels under pressure," as said Yilmaz Polat, ART's Washington correspondent. He is giving a voice to the fears shared by numerous journalists who work for DMG or other outlets that do not toe the AKP’s line.

Journalists do not practice their craft to become wealthy; most of them do not make much money. If they feel intimidated, they may choose to stay on the safe side in an intimidating environment – and the precedent would be set. After all, the government is currently going after Turkey's largest media group and its owner – who pays 11 percent of Istanbul's tax income.

And it gets better.

The government made a claim Hurriyet had avoided VAT tax. It went to a civilian court and the court made a democratic and fair ruling; they found hurriyet to be not guilty of tax evasion.

The courts protect media groups from unfair accusations despite what Erdogan does or doesnt claim.

 

[kaya'08]

Put simply, the fine was not slammed on Hurriyet because the courts found it to be a baseless accusation.

 

[Red_Dave]

Turkey today regarding Kurds is much nicer then it was in the past

It enacted a scorched earth policy in the past destroying kurdish towns and villages. Leading to around 600 000 refugees. The current Turkish government is doing a much better job targetting the PKK rather then punishing non militant Kurds.

Also the Turskish government is generally now far more democratic then it has been in the past. The power of the Turkish military when it comes to domestic Turkish politics has been weakened dramatically over the last 7 years. Weak support by the US for Israel would not change much going on in Turkey today, as the military leadership that would probably cause the change have been arrested for plotting vs the Turkish democratic government

As with any other kind of social change its very much like pushing a boulder up a steep hill, but I think you,re broadly correct here, part of the reason the PKK has had to operate from Iraq is that it no longer enjoys the support among the population that it once did, now that democratic outlets have been opend for Kurdish grevences (despite the best efforts of some) people are less prone to resort to violence.

 

[washunut]

why aren't we arming the Kurds to protect themselves from this onslaught from Turkey?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

why aren't we arming the Kurds to protect themselves from this onslaught from Turkey?

It is strongly suspected the US is

Although not specifically to target Turkey but Iran. But as PJAK and the PKK share the same operational base ( a mountain in Iraq) they most likely share equipment.

Turkey brought this up a couple of years ago or so when it found US sourcec weapons in the hands of PKK militants. Which of course would make the US a terrorist funding/supporting nation

 

[kaya'08]

why aren't we arming the Kurds to protect themselves from this onslaught from Turkey?

Are you serious? "Onslaught"? This comment serves to do nothing other than insult our intelligence and show how ignorant you truly are. How about we arm Hamas instead? Hell, lets hand over some Uranium why we are at it.

Onslaught....pah! You got the wrong country mate.

 

[kaya'08]

It is strongly suspected the US is

Although not specifically to target Turkey but Iran. But as PJAK and the PKK share the same operational base ( a mountain in Iraq) they most likely share equipment.

Turkey brought this up a couple of years ago or so when it found US sourcec weapons in the hands of PKK militants. Which of course would make the US a terrorist funding/supporting nation

Erdogan isn't the only person fond of double standards.

We know the US funded the taliban when the soviets occupied Afghanistan.

Today, our men pay the price. A very thin line separates us from the likes of Iran and Syria. A very thin line. But i do not blame today's administration for yesterday's mistakes.

 

[washunut]

Are you serious? "Onslaught"? This comment serves to do nothing other than insult our intelligence and show how ignorant you truly are. How about we arm Hamas instead? Hell, lets hand over some Uranium why we are at it.

Onslaught....pah! You got the wrong country mate.

Isn't there another little something in the history of the Turks? Something about another group they had a problem with?

 

[kaya'08]

Isn't there another little something in the history of the Turks? Something about another group they had a problem with?

What does the past have to do with now?
Thats like me adapting what you said in regards to native Americans.....seriously. Come on.

 

[washunut]

What does the past have to do with now?
Thats like me adapting what you said in regards to native Americans.....seriously. Come on.

Just seems like the Kurds could be having similar problems. Not sure if it is a cultural thing as I do not claim to know much about the Turkish people. Just recently they have made the news with the Kurds, supporting Iran at the U.N. and supporting Hamas. Not much of a record a citizen would be proud of.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Just seems like the Kurds could be having similar problems. Not sure if it is a cultural thing as I do not claim to know much about the Turkish people. Just recently they have made the news with the Kurds, supporting Iran at the U.N. and supporting Hamas. Not much of a record a citizen would be proud of.

You do realize the US worked with terrorist groups in the 80's, 90's and 00's dont you. From Hezbollah and AQ in the 90s to PJAK/PKK in the 00's.

That the US works with and supports dictatorships currently that are as bad as Iran,

Should US citizens be proud of that record?