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Turkey carries out air attacks in Iraq

donsutherland1

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From Agence France Presse:

Turkish warplanes bombed Monday several Kurdish rebel positions in neighbouring northern Iraq, the NTV news channel reported, amid an upsurge in unrest between troops and the outlawed group.

Six combat planes targeted Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) bases in Zap-Khakurk in Iraq's autonomous Kurdish zone, the channel said, citing the Internet site of Iraqi President Jalal Talabani's Patriotic Union of Kurdistan.
AFP: Turkish air force bombs Kurdish rebels in Iraq: TV report

Even as Turkey has complained excessively about Israel's seeking to inspect vessels bound for the Gaza Strip and its Prime Minister Recep Erdogan declared that Hamas is not a terrorist group, Turkey's actions reveal a clear double standard on at least two fronts:

1. Turkey allows itself a free hand when it comes to combating those it defines as terrorist organizations.
2. Turkey is willing to breach the borders of sovereign states in doing so, even as it complains about others who act in self-defense.

The reality is that both Hamas and the PKK are terrorist organizations. In addition, the inherent right of self-defense against terrorist organizations applies to all sovereign states, not just Turkey.

One wonders how Turkey would respond if the PKK were described as "a resistance group fighting to defend their land," the exact language he used to describe Hamas. Make no mistake, Turkey would take very strong exception to such a characterization. Nevertheless, even as Israel and other sovereign states are not likely to characterize the PKK terrorist organization in such terms, Turkey sees fit to apply an inconsistent standard when it comes to the Hamas terrorist organization.

Finally, the many critics who incorrectly asserted that Israel had violated international maritime law when seeking to inspect the flotilla--it didn't--are extremely unlikely to speak out against Turkey's carrying out an air raid in a neighboring sovereign state. That, too, is an inconsistent approach that reveals that Israel's critics are concerned far more about Israel's acting to defend itself than they are about broader principles.
 

bhkad

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Bumped to make sure people have a chance to read this.
 

ido_

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I've read about an Israeli initiative by the national students organization to make a peace floatilla to support the Kurds in Turkey
 
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Apocalypse

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*cough* hypocriticalagendamotivatedvaluelessscums *cough*
 

Apocalypse

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I've read about an Israeli initiative by the national students organization to make a peace floatilla to support the Kurds in Turkey
I for one think that Israel should become Armenia's new ally.
 

Demon of Light

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Doesn't Turkey have some agreement or arrangement with Iraq on this matter? I seem to recall some sort of deal where Iraq allows Turkey to carry out these kinds of raids on the PKK. Maybe it was just talk that never got implemented, but it certainly seems there was something like that.
 

donsutherland1

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Doesn't Turkey have some agreement or arrangement with Iraq on this matter? I seem to recall some sort of deal where Iraq allows Turkey to carry out these kinds of raids on the PKK. Maybe it was just talk that never got implemented, but it certainly seems there was something like that.
No. Iraq had pledged to crack down on the terrorist group, but did not reach an agreement that Turkey could do so on Iraqi territory. Instead, Prime Minister Maliki expressed hope that Turkey would not interfere in Iraq's affairs.
 

ferrugem

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Oh.. those poor Kurds... we must send an investigation group to reveal what happened and why!

Israel should recognize the Genocide of Armenian people.
 

joergan

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Oh.. those poor Kurds... we must send an investigation group to reveal what happened and why!

Israel should recognize the Genocide of Armenian people.
Some other interesting bits:

- turkey is currently blockading both cyprus and armenia
- turkey discriminates against kurds inside turkey fiercely; their schools must be conducted in the Turkish language, while israel allows arab schools to be done in arabic

There is no end to the hypocracy and garbage coming from the newly fascist dictatorship of Turkey - basically a bunch of War Criminals.

As an aside, iran is also carrying bombing raids in northern iraq against the kurds.
 

Arch Enemy

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Don,
you must understand the PKK is an existential threat to Turkey.
If Hamas had its way with Israel they would gently tug on its ears and giggle! Hamas loves the Peace!
 

joergan

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And the fascist dictatorship of thugs and murderers of iran is also bombing iraq, illegally crossing its borders - but of course there's no UN/leftist media outcry:

Iran Tests Iraqi Resolve at the Border - NYTimes.com

June 16, 2010
Iran Tests Iraqi Resolve at the Border
By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS and NAMO ABDULLA
ALI RASH, Iraq — This remote village high in the rugged mountains along the border with Iran has been deserted, its people having fled Iranian air and artillery bombardments with everything they could carry and whatever livestock that could be coaxed down the steep mountain trails.

Now the hundreds of Kurds who left Ali Rash and other mountain villages are living in sweltering refugee camp tents. They are at the center of questions about whether Iraq is willing or able to defend its borders with Iran — which has repeatedly breached the frontier in recent months.

The attacks on Ali Rash and at least a dozen other Kurdish villages have continued for more than a month and have included a foray by Iranian tanks one mile into Iraqi territory. But they have elicited only a tepid protest from Iraq’s government, including the release of a statement pleading with neighboring countries to honor its borders.

The Iranian government has said its bombing campaigns are necessary to weaken Kurdish guerrillas that strike in Iran and take refuge in Iraq. The only confirmed casualty has been a 14-year-old girl.

The incursions, though, come at a critical time for Iraq — amid the political stalemate over who should lead the next government more than three months after a divided electorate cast ballots, and less than three months before the American military is scheduled to withdraw its last combat soldier from the country.

United States forces continue to patrol portions of Iraq’s 910-mile frontier with Iran, but in the Qandil Mountain villages that have suffered the brunt of the Iranian offensive, there are no American, Iraqi or Kurdish soldiers — and the refugees say they are getting little help.

“We have been left on our own,” said Bahar Ibrahim, 27, a refugee from Ali Rash, who is eight months pregnant.

In the villages of Ali Rash and Sharkhan, craters from Iranian munitions dot the ground in pastures and around crude stone houses.

The hundreds of people who lived in the villages are now in refugee camps. Only a few stray horses remain. Even the honeybees have been taken to safer places. On the hillsides, where villagers grew wheat, the ground is scorched black.

The shelling here continues a trend of Iranian border incursions during the past 13 months that have included a helicopter attack on Kurdish villages in northern Iraq last May, and the occupation by Iranian soldiers of part of the Fakka oil field in southeastern Iraq for three days last December.

Last month, Iranian troops engaged in a firefight with the pesh merga, the Kurdish security forces, along the frontier before capturing and briefly detaining a pesh merga soldier. Iranian forces said they had misidentified the soldier as a member of the guerrilla group, the Party of Free Life of Kurdistan, more commonly known by its abbreviation, P.J.A.K.

The P.J.A.K., which is seeking greater Kurdish self-determination in Iran, and its sibling group, the Kurdistan Workers Party, or P.K.K., which is fighting for Kurdish autonomy in Turkey, use remote outposts in Iraq’s semiautonomous Kurdish region to carry out attacks, according to the Iranian and Turkish governments.

Turkey also bombs border areas in Iraq in pursuit of rebels. On Wednesday, clashes were reported between Turkish troops and P.K.K. fighters, which led to the deaths of four guerrillas and a Turkish soldier. Afterward, the Turkish military said it had dropped bombs in Iraq’s Kurdish region and its soldiers had crossed more than one mile into Iraq to pursue guerrillas. The Kurdish guerrilla groups have been listed as terrorist organizations by the United States government, though the P.J.A.K. has had contact with American officials as recently as four years ago.

The P.J.A.K. maintains that its attacks into Iran have been justified.

“We never kill civilians,” said Haval Kalhwr, a P.J.A.K. spokesman. “We are engaged in a defensive war which is internationally defined as legal.”

Officials in Iraq’s Kurdish region have criticized Baghdad for not doing more to persuade the authorities in Iran to halt the attacks. The Kurdish regional officials here also deny that they harbor guerrillas.

“The bombardment has continued, which means that the Iraqi government has not taken a serious position on this matter,” said Twana Ahmad, a spokesman for Barham Salih, prime minister of the Kurdistan regional government.

Iran has announced several times during the past six weeks that it has halted the bombing, only to resume it a day or so later, according to residents of the village and Kurdish officials.

Kurdish refugees say that because the bombs have burned their wheat fields and killed livestock, even when the bombardment ends it will be years before the villages will be economically secure again.

In the meantime, they get water from relief agencies and buy food from itinerant traders who charge twice the price found in markets.

Some have been living in tents for weeks, and health officials say unsanitary conditions in the camps may lead to the outbreak of disease.

Sabria Salih, 26, who has an 8-month-old child, said Ali Rash — the village she fled from more than four weeks ago — had come under heavy attack from Iranian forces.

“We have left almost everything behind,” she said. “We have only some blankets.”

She said the Iranian government was mistaken if it believed that the villagers were hiding guerrillas.

“No P.J.A.K. has been killed or injured in the attacks,” she said. “And no one has ever seen P.J.A.K. in our village.”

Zaid Thaker contributed reporting.
 

RightinNYC

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Do you think Turkey will dismiss the inquiry because it is "anti-Turkish"? Or that they will simply refuse an inquiry not made by the Turkish army?
Click the link and find out.
 

kaya'08

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Turkey crosses the boarder with the permission of the UN and the Kirkuk administration. Now here is where the real hypocrisy begins. You guys cant even bother searching it up because it doesn't suit you, and because the US failed to notify the UN when they went to Iraq.
 

alexa

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Turkey crosses the boarder with the permission of the UN and the Kirkuk administration. Now here is where the real hypocrisy begins. You guys cant even bother searching it up because it doesn't suit you, and because the US failed to notify the UN when they went to Iraq.
Thank you Kaya. I have not replied on these, not knowing the situation.
 

kaya'08

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Thanks guys for showing this ignoramuses some REAL sources.

Apoco, im disappointed in you for milking things out of proportion and being spiteful. We all regret the last year of our relationship, however propaganda is not the solution. Supporting the eventual removal of Erdogan from his seat is what we should be doing, it is far more productive. Don't even dare compare the PKK and cross boarder incursions with Gaza. There is no blockade on Kirkuk, and UN resolutions permit our entry into this semi-autonomous region. I think the true hypocrites have been shown here.
 
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joergan

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Turkey crosses the boarder with the permission of the UN and the Kirkuk administration. Now here is where the real hypocrisy begins. You guys cant even bother searching it up because it doesn't suit you, and because the US failed to notify the UN when they went to Iraq.
What ABSOLUTE BULLSH-T. What a bald-faced lie, not only do i know US servicemen who are up in n iraq who say the turks receive no permission from anyone - but people i know from there also say you are FOS.

You'll need to show evidence where either the UN OR the kurdistan government has expressly authorized indiscriminate bombing campaigns and cross-border raids into kurdish villages. Good luck.
 

joergan

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Don't even dare compare the PKK and cross boarder incursions with Gaza. There is no blockade on Kirkuk, and UN resolutions permit our entry into this semi-autonomous region. I think the true hypocrites have been shown here.
"Don't compare"? Are you for real? The terrorists in gaza are firing rockets, missiles and mortar shells into israel - you're right THERE IS NO COMPARISON. What israel faces is 10x worse than anything the PKK is doing.
 

kaya'08

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What ABSOLUTE BULLSH-T. What a bald-faced lie, not only do i know US servicemen who are up in n iraq who say the turks receive no permission from anyone - but people i know from there also say you are FOS.
Firsltly, id appreciate you speak to me with a bit more respect and civility.
Secondly, UN resolution 688. Thats right. Fact's just bit your ass. And what the hell is FOS?

You'll need to show evidence where either the UN OR the kurdistan government has expressly authorized indiscriminate bombing campaigns and cross-border raids into kurdish villages. Good luck.
Iraq's Barzani vows support for Turkey on landmark visit [ WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY NEWS, WORLD NEWS ]

Iraqi Kurdistan president vows support for Turkey against PKK

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2528742/posts

Thank you and goodnight.
 

Apocalypse

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kaya'08

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FOS is full of ****.
You're referring to this resolution:
Security Council resolution 688 (1991) on the situation between Iraq and Kuwait

What in it permits Turkey to cross into Iraq and bomb Kurdish militants there?
The resolution demands Iraq cooperate with members to end the security and humanitarian threat of its various factions, yet the Iraqi administration openly refused to cooperate with Turkey on the matter of the PKK and so Turkey uses this resolution to demand and hold the right to enter Iraqi sovereign to diffuse the threat the PKK poses, by which the UN deemed the actions of Turkey to enter Kirkuk legal.

As for FOS, thats a new one. :)
 

RightinNYC

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The resolution demands Iraq cooperate with members to end the security and humanitarian threat of its various factions, yet the Iraqi administration openly refused to cooperate with Turkey on the matter of the PKK and so Turkey uses this resolution to demand and hold the right to enter Iraqi sovereign to diffuse the threat the PKK poses, by which the UN deemed the actions of Turkey to enter Kirkuk legal.

As for FOS, thats a new one. :)
I might be missing something, but are you saying that the Turks are authorized to attack inside Iraq in 2010 because the situation in Iraq constitutes a material violation of the 1991 SC resolution?

I feel like I've heard that argument somewhere before...
 

kaya'08

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I might be missing something, but are you saying that the Turks are authorized to attack inside Iraq in 2010 because the situation in Iraq constitutes a material violation of the 1991 SC resolution?

I feel like I've heard that argument somewhere before...
No i am not saying that.
 
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