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Tucker: "Why is it disloyal to side with Russia but loyal to side with Ukraine?"

Craig234 said:
A boogeyman is a phony threat, like CARAVANS! Putin isn't phony. Supporting voting rights in Ukraine and at home are not in conflict.
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Never said they weren't phony, they are often accepted at large, and said we're not doing both. Was I not clear? Apologies.
 
H B Lowrey said:
Never said they weren't phony, they are often accepted at large, and said we're not doing both. Was I not clear? Apologies.
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Sorry, not clear on that post. I'm saying Putin is a real threat to some things rather than a bogeyman, which is an exaggerated threat, which he could be some time but isn't currently.
 
Craig234 said:
Sorry, not clear on that post. I'm saying Putin is a real threat to some things rather than a bogeyman, which is an exaggerated threat, which he could be some time but isn't currently.
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Well what degree warrants more war then?
 
H B Lowrey said:
Well what degree warrants more war then?
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Still not clear what you're saying. The US has said it won't go to war with nuclear armed Russia, but will take other actions to help Ukraine and hurt Russia for Ukraine to fight Russia.
 
Craig234 said:
Still not clear what you're saying. The US has said it won't go to war with nuclear armed Russia, but will take other actions to help Ukraine and hurt Russia for Ukraine to fight Russia.
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Yeah, right. That's how we do since WWII.
 
As usual, the forum is trying to come up with easy answers to complicated questions.

To the question of "advocating for war", the question lacks context:
- do we mean from a US perspective or from a Russia/Ukraine perspective
- do we mean an actual declared war or the more common "conflict" we have been seeing and engaging in for decades now

Because of the existence of alliances, the "major powers" are scared shitless of declared wars. They trip off treaty obligations and before you know it.....WW1 all over again which in some ways led to WW2. For clarity sake, the US was not an ally to anybody in WW1. We were a "belligerent" coming in late mainly to insure that in the end, the side we wanted to win did in fact win which did happen.

Just to help the forum understand the complexity of these subjects, that thing called the Korean War was never formally declared. It was deemed by the US reference our engagement to be a "Police Action". All that there is to this day on the Korean Peninsula is an Armistice which is a temporary cease fire which has held for 70 odd years. In December 2021 NK announced that it would accept "in principle" the end of the war on the Korean Peninsula and then just as quickly announced that it could not make any progress toward that goal given the tensions stirred by US involvement on the peninsula. SIGH.........

Meanwhile China "insists" that Taiwan is actually part of what we call China. Russia while not publicly insisting that Ukraine is part of Russia has been alternately trying to "absorb" it either via military incursion, support for insurrection, economic imperialism, COUP, political malfeasance or all of the above since the break up of the Soviet Union. The "conflict" in Eastern Ukraine today, the fighting that has already been going on there today, an insurrection of sorts has insurrectionists obviously supported by Russia using Russian equipment and probably aided by Russian "advisors". I consider the recent announcement by the UK apparently fed by "intelligence" from MI-6 that Russia would intend installing a Russia friendly government in Kiev if it could make any progress in its obvious effort to absorb Ukraine almost comical. REALLY MI-6. Is this what passes for iNTELLIGENCE over there now? SIGH....

So:
- if the actual question is whether a declared state of war will exist between Russia and Ukraine, if I had to guess......NO.
- If the question is whether a military "conflict" at some level will ensue between Russia and Ukraine, I would be inclined to say.....YES and before the spring thaw in Ukraine. Putin usually the ever patient KGB Officer appears to have lost his patience seeking a big win to take home to his disenchanted domestic audience.
- if the question is whether the US or NATO or the EU will support Ukraine with defensive weapons....I would offer a definitive......YES
- if the question is whether the US or NATO or the EU will support Ukraine will boots on the ground....I would offer a qualified.....NO

IMO, we on our side of the fence will not inject boots on the ground but will instead make Ukraine prove it can absorb the early blows from Russia, make Ukraine prove it can stop a new Russian incursion and then possibly as Ukraine stalls the Russian drive incurring heavy Russian losses and forces Russia back WE (the royal we west of Ukraine) might insert some "advisors" in order to help completely rout the incursion as the Russians topple back to their border. The early fighting will be bloody indeed, if not very bloody and nobody in the US or in Europe has any stomach for that....rightfully so I might add. Ukraine we must remember is not a NATO member.

There now....the forum may proceed.
 
Schism said:
In another thread I advocated for peace and was dubbed a Russian agent and Putin ball-licker.

I guess all the hippies from the '68-'69 peace and love era are dead.

The new liberal and progressives want war.
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I'm not dead and I'm one of those folks and in 2022 it amazes me you have to ask such a question. Do you have your I'd rather be a russian t-shirt on today?
 
I do not think it is wise to side with Russia or Ukraine, the last thing we need is yet another entangling alliance with all sorts of consequences over there staining our already soiled foreign policy for that area of the world.

That said ole Tucker Carlson is stuck in a position of having to defend his prior comments, and it helps if he can double down on the outrage he generates for his audience of useful idiots.
 
Remember the good old days when Americans rallied together to support their Commander in Cheif in challenging times? Tucker is justifying this to foam up the right against their President. He doesn't give a damn what it means in the bigger picture. He is about as unpatriotic and irresponsible as can be. Worse yet his fans will buy into it without much thought.

This is not just a US/ Russia thing the entire free and democratic world needs to care about this. We cannot stand by and do nothing and let a man such as Putin violate the sovereign borders of another nation. We all benefit in many ways from a stable, united Europe but more importantly, our NATO allies are at risk if we just let Putin take control of one after another of the Eastern European countries. Putin has only one focus and that is to grow Russia, and more importantly himself, back to the stature of the USSR. He craves that type of recognition. Anyone who thinks a world with a revitalized USSR in it is as safer place for us all...... simply isn't thinking.

Putting troops on the ground in a non-NATO country to defend them from a third party should not be our aim but rather we need to stand firmly together, defend our NATO allies and do everything we can short of putting boots on the ground in Ukraine to deter Russia from forcibly taking control of a country that wants to be sovereign and not part of a new USSR.
 
Craig234 said:
Most including Biden are not saying that. The two sides are Democrats supporting very strong punishment for Russia by a united NATO, while Republicans support mindlessly attacking Democrats with garbage, and supporting Republican leaders who at best do that, and at worst are lackeys for Putin and supports of authoritarianism, including Putin, and enemies of democracy, including Ukraine's and ours.
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You would have never seen World War II vets doing what current republicans do.
 
I wonder if this isn't somehow linked to the false narrative about Biden and Ukraine and Trump's first impeachment. Somehow making Ukraine out as the bad guy and Putin the good guy also makes Trump the good guy? Will be interesting to watch how Republicans in Congress come down on this.....Trumpers vs moderate, traditional Republicans.
 
CaughtInThe said:
The Cult
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From Tucker's mouth to Congress' ears.

"Buh buh buh Tucker's just a pundit! He's not a journalist, and no one accepts him as such!"

Bullshit. Tucker's a well-paid propagandist, and his audience accepts him as a mouthpiece for truth.
 
Remember when cons used to say, "Better dead than red"? But now they are like:

betterrussianthandem.jpg
 
Lycanthrope said:
From Tucker's mouth to Congress' ears.

"Buh buh buh Tucker's just a pundit! He's not a journalist, and no one accepts him as such!"

Bullshit. Tucker's a well-paid propagandist, and his audience accepts him as a mouthpiece for truth.
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Tucker is a foreign agent.
 
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