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Trump's remarks on NATO set off freakout

Cardinal

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I've said repeatedly that what Trump brings to the Presidency is nothing but chaos, in particular on the international stage. I noted that his petty snit with the mayor of London was just a tiny hors d'oeuvre -- a microcosm -- of the discord he would engender with our closest and most strategic allies. I was expecting the genuine alarms among our allies to be set off after (shudder) he might have been elected President. Trump, however, couldn't wait til January, so apparently he said "Screw it, I'll start now."

Donald Trump's suggestion that the U.S. shouldn't automatically come to the defense of its NATO allies if they are attacked is already alarming longstanding American allies, and is likely to please U.S. rival Russia.
One of NATO's bedrock principles is Article 5. The gist of that article is that an attack on one member amounts to an attack on all members, and that fellow NATO states must help the one that was struck. Such a provision is especially important to smaller members of NATO, such as the Baltic States, who in recent years have begun to fear Russia's military aims.Trump, who just formally snagged the Republican Party's presidential nomination, has laid out a foreign policy with strong strains of isolationism, and has often indicated that the U.S. should renegotiate or back off treaties.
Pence, meanwhile, has been put in the position of having to appear to directly contradict Trump while also echoing his sentiments:

“I have every confidence that Donald Trump will see to it that the United States of America stands by our allies and lives up to our treaty obligations," Pence told "Fox and Friends" on Thursday morning. "That being said, I think he makes an enormously important point that I think resonates with millions of Americans that at a time where we have $19 trillion in national debt, that we need to begin to look to our allies around the world to step up and pay their fair share.”

I already feel sorry for a Trump administration's press secretary.

Trump's remarks on NATO set off freakout - POLITICO
 

Thoreau72

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Turkey is almost as far from the North Atlantic as one can get in the northern hemisphere.

NATO has outlived its usefulness, and is about to get us started in WWIII.

On that, The Donald has a good point.
 

cpwill

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I've said repeatedly that what Trump brings to the Presidency is nothing but chaos, in particular on the international stage. I noted that his petty snit with the mayor of London was just a tiny hors d'oeuvre -- a microcosm -- of the discord he would engender with our closest and most strategic allies. I was expecting the genuine alarms among our allies to be set off after (shudder) he might have been elected President. Trump, however, couldn't wait til January, so apparently he said "Screw it, I'll start now."

Pence, meanwhile, has been put in the position of having to appear to directly contradict Trump while also echoing his sentiments:

I already feel sorry for a Trump administration's press secretary.

Trump's remarks on NATO set off freakout - POLITICO

I'm curious as to why you think that Trump will not insist on being his own Press Secretary.



But yeah. Broadly, this guy is an abomination, on many levels, as a POTUS candidate.
 

Cardinal

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Cardinal

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I'm curious as to why you think that Trump will not insist on being his own Press Secretary.



But yeah. Broadly, this guy is an abomination, on many levels, as a POTUS candidate.

There is a certain wisdom in being his own press secretary, since the press would already be too exhausted to demand that an insane person explain his decisions.
 

ludin

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Without the US NATO itself is useless. We are the reason that nato is so successful.
The rest of the nations follow our lead on NATO missions and are usually the last involved while we
are there first.

I think Trump has a point but he stated it the wrong way.
 

cpwill

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There is a certain wisdom in being his own press secretary, since the press would already be too exhausted to demand that an insane person explain his decisions.

Frankly, I think he'd enjoy that job more than the more thankless task of being actual President.
 

Thoreau72

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And that comment comes from...where...exactly?



Then you don't know what NATO is.



It's a good point if you believe that alliances aren't important.

That came from ME Cardinal, just as your comments came from YOU. :mrgreen:

Like George Washington, I believe in honest friendships with all nations, entangling alliances with none.

Gladio was a NATO initiative Cardinal, and look where we are today.

NATO served a valid purpose in the day, as did a variety of other treaty organizations to which we are signatory, but it long ago outlived its usefulness, and has become fairly well a criminal organization sponsoring military aggression all over the globe.
 

Tigerace117

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I've said repeatedly that what Trump brings to the Presidency is nothing but chaos, in particular on the international stage. I noted that his petty snit with the mayor of London was just a tiny hors d'oeuvre -- a microcosm -- of the discord he would engender with our closest and most strategic allies. I was expecting the genuine alarms among our allies to be set off after (shudder) he might have been elected President. Trump, however, couldn't wait til January, so apparently he said "Screw it, I'll start now."


Pence, meanwhile, has been put in the position of having to appear to directly contradict Trump while also echoing his sentiments:



I already feel sorry for a Trump administration's press secretary.

Trump's remarks on NATO set off freakout - POLITICO

Yet another reason not to vote for Trump.

I am convinced he's a mole working for Hilary.

:mrgreen:(Seriously, though)
 
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Cardinal

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Without the US NATO itself is useless. We are the reason that nato is so successful.
The rest of the nations follow our lead on NATO missions and are usually the last involved while we
are there first.

I think Trump has a point but he stated it the wrong way.

It doesn't matter what intentions exist deep within the maddened caverns that make up Donald's id are. What matters is what he says and the chaos that ensues among our closest and most strategic allies as a result. When the leading NATO power essentially says "Screw NATO," then the individual NATO members flee to self reliance. This creates the potential for an entire line of dominos constructed entirely of Crimeas. Which, if you had bothered to so much as Wiki NATO in the first place, you would know was specifically created to prevent.
 
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Cardinal

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That came from ME Cardinal, just as your comments came from YOU. :mrgreen:

Then your comment came from nowhere relevant as it pertains to this thread.

Like George Washington, I believe in honest friendships with all nations, entangling alliances with none.

Gladio was a NATO initiative Cardinal, and look where we are today.

NATO served a valid purpose in the day, as did a variety of other treaty organizations to which we are signatory, but it long ago outlived its usefulness, and has become fairly well a criminal organization sponsoring military aggression all over the globe.

And what was the valid purpose in its day?
 

tres borrachos

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Yet another reason not to vote for Trump.

I am convinced he's a mole working for Hilary.

You know, you were probably being facetious when you said that last part, but I'm not convinced Trump is doing this to get his preferred candidate into the Oval Office - and that preferred candidate is Hillary.

As to the OP, christonacracker, Trump's colossal and obvious lack of qualifications for the job of POTUS is on full display once again. Again. And now poor Pence has to clean up his messes and Pence looks foolish (too).
 

Thoreau72

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Then your comment came from nowhere relevant as it pertains to this thread.



And what was the valid purpose in its day?

Its valid purpose was to counter Soviet expansion, as in Hungary.
 

jmotivator

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Liberals: It's a crime that we fund our military so much! We shouldn't be the police of the world!!

Trump: Maybe we shouldn't be police of the world. Maybe other NATO members should be able to defend themselves...

Liberals: OUTRAGE!!!!!
 

Tigerace117

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You know, you were probably being facetious when you said that last part, but I'm not convinced Trump is doing this to get his preferred candidate into the Oval Office - and that preferred candidate is Hillary.

As to the OP, christonacracker, Trump's colossal and obvious lack of qualifications for the job of POTUS is on full display once again. Again. And now poor Pence has to clean up his messes and Pence looks foolish (too).

I mean, I guess he could be that dumb--- but part of me thinks it all seems a little fishy.

But I guess just plain old stupidity would be the more likely answer.
 

Cardinal

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You know, you were probably being facetious when you said that last part, but I'm not convinced Trump is doing this to get his preferred candidate into the Oval Office - and that preferred candidate is Hillary.

As to the OP, christonacracker, Trump's colossal and obvious lack of qualifications for the job of POTUS is on full display once again. Again. And now poor Pence has to clean up his messes and Pence looks foolish (too).

Pence: "Don't worry, I'll make sure that Trump doesn't do the insane thing he says he'll do. Oh, and Trump is right."

Reading his statement gave me whiplash.
 

Cardinal

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You asked, I answered. Now it's your turn.

Why are you waiting for me to give you the obvious cues? Finish out your thought by explaining what leads you to believe NATO is no longer valid for addressing its function. If you're planning on doling out your position in unfinished segments then we're done here.
 

Redress

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Liberals: It's a crime that we fund our military so much! We shouldn't be the police of the world!!

Trump: Maybe we shouldn't be police of the world. Maybe other NATO members should be able to defend themselves...

Liberals: OUTRAGE!!!!!

Saying we are spending too much on the military is not even remotely like saying we should not honor our NATO obligations. Why do you feel the need to attack liberals about everything, and why do you do such a ****ty job of it?
 

jmotivator

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Saying we are spending too much on the military is not even remotely like saying we should not honor our NATO obligations. Why do you feel the need to attack liberals about everything, and why do you do such a ****ty job of it?

I don't remember the same outrage from the Democrats side when Obama refused to honor our obligations with Ukraine.....
 

shrubnose

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I've said repeatedly that what Trump brings to the Presidency is nothing but chaos, in particular on the international stage. I noted that his petty snit with the mayor of London was just a tiny hors d'oeuvre -- a microcosm -- of the discord he would engender with our closest and most strategic allies. I was expecting the genuine alarms among our allies to be set off after (shudder) he might have been elected President. Trump, however, couldn't wait til January, so apparently he said "Screw it, I'll start now."


Pence, meanwhile, has been put in the position of having to appear to directly contradict Trump while also echoing his sentiments:



I already feel sorry for a Trump administration's press secretary.

Trump's remarks on NATO set off freakout - POLITICO



There will never be one because there will never be a Trump administration.

Wait and see.

:lol:
 

ludin

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It doesn't matter what intentions exist deep within the maddened caverns that make up Donald's id are. What matters is what he says and the chaos that ensues among our closest and most strategic allies as a result. When the leading NATO power essentially says "Screw NATO," then the individual NATO members flee to self reliance. This creates the potential for an entire line of dominos constructed entirely of Crimeas. Which, if you had bothered to so much as Wiki NATO in the first place, you would know was specifically created to prevent.

Chaos ensues anytime NATO is involved.
They are simply a peace keeping force, however their mission has failed many times without
actual US military support in an aggressive role.

Kosovo, Rwanda, Bosnia, Haiti, congo.

the list goes on of it's failures to do it's mission without outside aggressive military action.
 

joG

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I've said repeatedly that what Trump brings to the Presidency is nothing but chaos, in particular on the international stage. I noted that his petty snit with the mayor of London was just a tiny hors d'oeuvre -- a microcosm -- of the discord he would engender with our closest and most strategic allies. I was expecting the genuine alarms among our allies to be set off after (shudder) he might have been elected President. Trump, however, couldn't wait til January, so apparently he said "Screw it, I'll start now."


Pence, meanwhile, has been put in the position of having to appear to directly contradict Trump while also echoing his sentiments:



I already feel sorry for a Trump administration's press secretary.

Trump's remarks on NATO set off freakout - POLITICO

We agree that Trump is not the man with experience enough to manage foreign policy and security as we slide into the multipolar world. And nothing I have read him to have said seems to imply differently.

But this is totally correct: "Estonia is 1 of 5 NATO allies in Europe to meet its 2% def expenditures commitment. Fought, with no caveats, in NATO's sole Art 5 op. in Afg." And it is true that Iraq probably would have not occurred, had Schröder and Chirac not aligned themselves to give Saddam the feeling he could resist the UN Resolution with impunity. But we have allowed this to go on and on and on. For years Germany has paid less than 2 percent and since the early 1990s around 1.2 percent of GDP but is a direct economic competitor.
This cannot go on. The state of repair of the Bundeswehr is by their own accounts miserable and will take years of high spending in the vicinity of 3 percent to remedy. Why, officially they cannot station more than 8.000 Troops in relatively peaceful areas let alone combat. As a security force they are irrelevant, but profit like few of the security of world trade.
Basically the same is true for almost every country in Europe with the exceptions of France and UK, which have been reducing their capabilities to match Germany.

So, while it might be a little undiplomatic to bluster this into morning radio, the news should not be new to Germany and Italians or Spaniards. They have been feeding their social programs with money saved by free riding security they did not pay for.
 
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