Trump's epic stupidity of wanting to leave Nato

[OscarLevant]

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html?module=inline

“It would destroy 70-plus years of painstaking work across multiple administrations, Republican and Democratic, to create perhaps the most powerful and advantageous alliance in history,” Ms. Flournoy said in an interview. “And it would be the wildest success that Vladimir Putin could dream of.”

My view is this:

The Military will not follow that order. Those who do are traitors. NO rational president, officer of the court, senator, congressperson, and anyone in the military and security & State dept. would ever believe this to be acceptable.


Trump is digging his own grave if he pursues this line of thinking. It will lead to his impeachment ( okay, for you "yeah, and hillary was to be prez" shouters, please abstain, it's getting old )

The sad and tragic truth is Trump is so stupid he doesn't realize his complete ignorance on the subject, and apparently he doesn't retain the advice and information on the subject when it is given to him, given that he returns to the pining for abandoning NATO every few months or so, and as such, this demonstrates incontrovertibly that he is not fit to be president.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Leaving NATO would be the most disastrous move ever done by an American administration, and colossally stupid. If it is done under Putin's order, it's treason, and an impeachment-grade offense.

If Trump does move in this direction, he will be impeached by the House, and I hope the coward GOP senators will have the courage to convict him and remove him from office. However, I don't expect much from the cowards who currently control the Senate.

Anyway, if this happens, I hope that Trump loses the 2020 election and the next president joins the alliance again.

 

[Hedgology]

Leaving NATO would be the most disastrous move ever done by an American administration, and colossally stupid. If it is done under Putin's order, it's treason, and an impeachment-grade offense.

If Trump does move in this direction, he will be impeached by the House, and I hope the coward GOP senators will have the courage to convict him and remove him from office. However, I don't expect much from the cowards who currently control the Senate.

You're not making at argument... The only thing people hear is the people who hate Trump believe it's a stupid idea, which makes me believe it's a good idea.

 

[Casca XV]

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia



My view is this:

The Military will not follow that order. Those who do are traitors. NO rational president, officer of the court, senator, congressperson, and anyone in the military and security & State dept. would ever believe this to be acceptable.


Trump is digging his own grave if he pursues this line of thinking. It will lead to his impeachment ( okay, for you "yeah, and hillary was to be prez" shouters, please abstain, it's getting old )

The sad and tragic truth is Trump is so stupid he doesn't realize his complete ignorance on the subject, and apparently he doesn't retain the advice and information on the subject when it is given to him, given that he returns to the pining for abandoning NATO every few months or so, and as such, this demonstrates incontrovertibly that he is not fit to be president.

Do you have another link? It will be a cold day in hell before I pay the NYT anything.

So the President is "stupid" "ignorant" but you know everything.

 

[Utility Man]

 

[GreatNews2night]

You're not making at argument... The only thing people hear is the people who hate Trump believe it's a stupid idea, which makes me believe it's a good idea.

I didn't make an argument because it's so obvious, I thought we didn't even need one.

But sure, I'll oblige.

Are you aware that the only time NATO's mutual defense clause was invoked, was after 9.11, to help us?
We share all kinds of values and interests with NATO countries.
Our geopolitical interests are favored by the alliance.
Trumps idiotic ignorance about how NATO works, thinking that countries need to pay the United States the 2% they supposedly owe, is just his ignorance at work. It's not what the 2% mean. There are no paying dues at NATO. We don't spend more money because of NATO.
Sure, I'd like to see more European countries investing 2% of their GDP in defense so that the alliance is stronger, but quitting it is not the answer.
This is a tough world. Russian and China are climbing up. We need the strength in numbers of our allies from NATO, to counter these two powers who don't have our best interest at heart.

OK, satisfied?

Trump is ignorant and an idiot, but my opinion above is not driven by hatred for Trump. Any US president trying to get out of NATO would also be an idiot.

Like the original poster said, all administrations, Republican included, have always supported NATO, and there are many reasons for that, which I articulated above.

 

[Hedgology]

I didn't make an argument because it's so obvious, I thought we didn't even need one.

But sure, I'll oblige.

Are you aware that the only time NATO's mutual defense clause was invoked, was after 9.11, to help us?
We share all kinds of values and interests with NATO countries.
Our geopolitical interests are favored by the alliance.
Trumps idiotic ignorance about how NATO works, thinking that countries need to pay the United States the 2% they supposedly owe, is just his ignorance at work. It's not what the 2% mean. There are no paying dues at NATO. We don't spend more money because of NATO.
Sure, I'd like to see more European countries investing 2% of their GDP in defense so that the alliance is stronger, but quitting it is not the answer.


OK, satisfied?

No, because you haven't said anything. You still haven't made an argument against leaving. The only think you're basically saying is, "it exist, therefore, we should be part of it." You haven't made a convincing argument for staying. Why should the United States remain in NATO.

This is a tough world. Russian and China are climbing up. We need the strength in numbers of our allies from NATO, to counter these two powers who don't have our best interest at heart.

This is really your only argument, but it's not a very good one. Every country has their own interest at heart. Why would you expect anyone to have your interests? Again, not a convincing argument for remaining in NATO.

Trump is ignorant and an idiot, but my opinion above is not driven by hatred for Trump. Any US president trying to get out of NATO would also be an idiot.

Like the original poster said, all administrations, Republican included, have always supported NATO, and there are many reasons for that, which I articulated above.

That's normative. I'm only interested in the facts, that what you think the facts are.

 

[OscarLevant]

Do you have another link? It will be a cold day in hell before I pay the NYT anything.

So the President is "stupid" "ignorant" but you know everything.

Do you have another link? It will be a cold day in hell before I pay the NYT anything.

So the President is "stupid" "ignorant" but you know everything.

Sarcasm noted, but I've seen better.

NYT is one of the most widest read Newspapers, most referred to, over 100 awards, etc.. It's rating by mediabiasfactcheck.com

Overall, we rate the New York Times Left-Center biased based on word and story selection that moderately favors the left, but highly factual and considered one of the most reliable sources for information due to proper sourcing and well respected journalists/editors.

Factual reporting: HIGH

Don't read it, then.

FYI, I hear it's pretty easy to get past the paywall, just google it.

I'll read anything that has a high rating on MBFC.

 

[OscarLevant]

You're not making at argument... The only thing people hear is the people who hate Trump believe it's a stupid idea, which makes me believe it's a good idea.

So, if you heard it as a great idea, would that make you believe it was a bad idea?

 

[Hedgology]

So, if you heard it as a great idea, would that make you believe it was a bad idea?

Probably, since the only reason Trump exist is to make the left crazy.

Look how easy he made you all become the pro-war party, LMAO...

 

[Amelia]

You're not making at argument... The only thing people hear is the people who hate Trump believe it's a stupid idea, which makes me believe it's a good idea.

LOL. Deep thinker.

 

[Casca XV]

Sarcasm noted, but I've seen better.

NYT is one of the most widest read Newspapers, most referred to, over 100 awards, etc.. It's rating by mediabiasfactcheck.com



Don't read it, then.

FYI, I hear it's pretty easy to get past the paywall, just google it.

I'll read anything that has a high rating on MBFC.

That a big "No" on NYT

https://www.naturalnews.com/039959_New_York_Times_timeswatch_false_reporting.html

 

[Kobie]

Probably, since the only reason Trump exist is to make the left crazy.

Look how easy he made you all become the pro-war party, LMAO...

It's amazing to me how little you know about pretty much anything.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia



My view is this:

The Military will not follow that order. Those who do are traitors. NO rational president, officer of the court, senator, congressperson, and anyone in the military and security & State dept. would ever believe this to be acceptable.


Trump is digging his own grave if he pursues this line of thinking. It will lead to his impeachment ( okay, for you "yeah, and hillary was to be prez" shouters, please abstain, it's getting old )

The sad and tragic truth is Trump is so stupid he doesn't realize his complete ignorance on the subject, and apparently he doesn't retain the advice and information on the subject when it is given to him, given that he returns to the pining for abandoning NATO every few months or so, and as such, this demonstrates incontrovertibly that he is not fit to be president.

What’s wrong with it at all? All of our NATO allies hate America, Emmanuel Macron who’s whole country only exists because of American intervention had the balls to knock Trump at a recent diplomatic meeting. Plus our involvement in world affairs only seems to hurt other people. Let the Europeans save themselves from whatever hordes ail them. I say let’s roll back foreign policy. Party like it’s 1899

 

[FreedomFromAll]

What’s wrong with it at all? All of our NATO allies hate America, Emmanuel Macron who’s whole country only exists because of American intervention had the balls to knock Trump at a recent diplomatic meeting. Plus our involvement in world affairs only seems to hurt other people. Let the Europeans save themselves from whatever hordes ail them. I say let’s roll back foreign policy. Party like it’s 1899

Great plan if you are Putin.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Great plan if you are Putin.

I think the militaries of Western Europe are more then capable of holding off Putin, well unless his puppet Angela Merkel who’s crippled the German military and signed massive gas deals with Russia... you want to talk about a problem from within NATO that’s it right there... decides she has no interest in containing Russia. The Russian military is largely a paper tiger

What did NATO/EU/Obama so about Crimea? NATO Forces could retake Crimea by the end of tommorow without breaking a sweat so don’t lecture me about Putin, it’s the leftists who have failed to contain Russia


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[FreedomFromAll]

I think the militaries of Western Europe are more then capable of holding off Putin, well unless his puppet Angela Merkel who’s crippled the German military and signed massive gas deals with Russia... you want to talk about a problem from within NATO that’s it right there... decides she has no interest in containing Russia. The Russian military is largely a paper tiger

What did NATO/EU/Obama so about Crimea? NATO Forces could retake Crimea by the end of tommorow without breaking a sweat so don’t lecture me about Putin, it’s the leftists who have failed to contain Russia


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Lol but its Trump a Republican in office. But then anyone still doing partisan whataboutism at this stage is beyond any help.

 

[Keridan]

I think leaving is a bad idea, but not a horrible one.

Not like anyone else in the group brings comparable payments or military force to the treaty. We started it when it was needed. Since then we have held it together financially and mightily.

Serious threats to our safety would not be deterred by membership with this group. They are deterred from picking on the others because of our presence.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Lol but its Trump a Republican in office. But then anyone still doing partisan whataboutism at this stage is beyond any help.

Blah blah blah

“Whataboutism” is leftist codespeak for “I’m a hypocrite who only hates Trump” Trump was not president when Obama and leftist European leaders let Putin gain power.

And in any event, why is what’s going on with Russia our problem?


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[FreedomFromAll]

Blah blah blah

“Whataboutism” is leftist codespeak for “I’m a hypocrite who only hates Trump” Trump was not president when Obama and leftist European leaders let Putin gain power.

And in any event, why is what’s going on with Russia our problem?


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Well I am not a leftist so stick that up your hyper partisan hackery.

ANd if anyone needs to tell you "why is what’s going on with Russia our problem? " at this stage you simply are not living in reality.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Well I am not a leftist so stick that up your hyper partisan hackery.

ANd if anyone needs to tell you "why is what’s going on with Russia our problem? " at this stage you simply are not living in reality.

No, we all live in the same reality, and I’m perfectly ok with saying “we don’t share a border with Russia (well ok we do but a remote uninvadable one), they do) let them deal with Russia. All Europeans ever do is female dog about America but who’s the first people they run to once they have a problem?

Our NATO treaty stipulates what members are supposed to spend on defense, most members ignore this. Most members have used our military spending to subsidize massive social welfare states, and shameless expect us to pick up the whole tab, then a country is invaded by Russia and they do nothing except sign massive gas deals binding them further to Russia while American leftist want to kneecap our gas production to protect the red penised tree squirrel or whatever BS environmental cause is popular this week, so the reality is nobody criticizing Trump has any room to talk. If you want a massive anti Russia agenda you certainly don’t act like it


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[FreedomFromAll]

No, we all live in the same reality, and I’m perfectly ok with saying “we don’t share a border with Russia (well ok we do but a remote uninvadable one), they do) let them deal with Russia. All Europeans ever do is female dog about America but who’s the first people they run to once they have a problem?

Our NATO treaty stipulates what members are supposed to spend on defense, most members ignore this. Most members have used our military spending to subsidize massive social welfare states, and shameless expect us to pick up the whole tab, then a country is invaded by Russia and they do nothing except sign massive gas deals binding them further to Russia while American leftist want to kneecap our gas production to protect the red penised tree squirrel or whatever BS environmental cause is popular this week, so the reality is nobody criticizing Trump has any room to talk. If you want a massive anti Russia agenda you certainly don’t act like it


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Of course the fact that I am not on the left went right over your head. And having a border with Russia never mattered stop the BS idiotic talk.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Of course the fact that I am not on the left went right over your head. And having a border with Russia never mattered stop the BS idiotic talk.

Despite your not allowing the comments to roll off your back like water off a duck, you sure often take the side of, ie, post waddle and quack like a left leaning duck... shows all what your posts are ultimately quacked up to be.

You have made no sensible arguments countering the poster EMN ...AND how intrinsically inane is it to say that having a border with Russia never mattered? Ask the Chinese, ask the bordering, buffering, suffering Eastern European satellite nations during and after WW2...ask the Fins. Ask almost any peoples that have had a border with Russian in their history. Speaking from at least a minimum base of knowledge helps support your arguments... if nobody ever told you so previously.

 

[Athanasius68]

There has been talk of creating a European Army.
How would the creation of such an army impact NATO? Shouldn't the USA think about that?

 

[jnug]

I think the militaries of Western Europe are more then capable of holding off Putin, well unless his puppet Angela Merkel who’s crippled the German military and signed massive gas deals with Russia... you want to talk about a problem from within NATO that’s it right there... decides she has no interest in containing Russia. The Russian military is largely a paper tiger

What did NATO/EU/Obama so about Crimea? NATO Forces could retake Crimea by the end of tommorow without breaking a sweat so don’t lecture me about Putin, it’s the leftists who have failed to contain Russia


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Obama failed to contain them. But that is a far cry from promoting them (see just about everything Trump does and doesn't do in that regard).