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Trumpism is American fascism

Linc said:
You probably no more about Nazis than he does since that’s been your party since the 1930s.
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Thats stupid and dishonest, but thats what Ive come to expect. Saying that the republican party = nazi party is beyond ignorant, but thats your position..
 
Fletch said:
I have no idea. What would be nice is if you guys could tone down the nazi nonsense. It is impossible to have any sort of dialogue when your side engages in that level of dishonesty.
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Trump reminded of Hitler the day he announced for the presidency and scapegoated Mexicans just as Hitler scapegoated Jews. It told me could win, if that makes you feel any better. Everything he did after that only confirmed it for me further. Two nihilistic demagogues. Both would burn the country to the ground to keep their hold on power.
 
Fletch said:
Thats stupid and dishonest, but thats what Ive come to expect. Saying that the republican party = nazi party is beyond ignorant, but thats your position..
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Actually it is the Trump party that has embraced the tactics of the 3rd Reich to remain in power. They will lose like all authoritarians lose in America. That is why you failed.
 
Linc said:
What do you think of posters who lyingly project onto another poster with terms like dictator?
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Biden set the qualifications for being a dictator...and then proceeded to meet them.

So...you approve of Trump being a dictator to get rid of Democracy with lies about election fraud.
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Trump didn't do that.
 
Fletch said:
I have no idea. What would be nice is if you guys could tone down the nazi nonsense. It is impossible to have any sort of dialogue when your side engages in that level of dishonesty.
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I didn't say Nazi, I said fascism. And if the shoe fits, it's not dishonesty.

- Cronyism
- Nationalism
- Racism
- Uncaring about human rights
- Overall authoritarian attitude
- Glorified the military
- Strong focus on Law and Order, Crime and Punishment
- Clearly pointed out Enemies of the People (media, Democrats)
- Tried to influence the elections

Do you deny that Trump did all of these things? Do you deny that these are among the defining characteristics of fascism?
 
j brown's body said:
Trump reminded of Hitler the day he announced for the presidency and scapegoated Mexicans just as Hitler scapegoated Jews. It told me could win, if that makes you feel any better. Everything he did after that only confirmed it for me further. Two nihilistic demagogues. Both would burn the country to the ground to keep their hold on power.
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Thats false, stupid and shows an ignorance of history that only a liberal could so arrogantly cling to. Well done.
 
AmNat said:
I'm serious. He's not President anymore. Perhaps if you took up a job or a hobby or something, it might take your mind off the man?
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Sorry, you don't get to tell people to move along. Trump supporters own this mess. History will make sure they own it forever.
 
Binary_Digit said:
I didn't say Nazi, I said fascism. And if the shoe fits, it's not dishonesty.

- Cronyism
- Nationalism
- Racism
- Uncaring about human rights
- Overall authoritarian attitude
- Glorified the military
- Strong focus on Law and Order, Crime and Punishment
- Clearly pointed out Enemies of the People (media, Democrats)
- Tried to influence the elections

Do you deny that Trump did all of these things? Do you deny that these are among the defining characteristics of fascism?
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You will have to bring evidence that Trump did do those things before we can even begin. Then you would have to explain why you add things to your list that are not unique to fascism like Cronyism. In what way was Trump different or worse than any other president in that regard? Nationalism, in what way was Trumps supposed nationalism different than Bidens? Shouldnt a president of the United States put the interests of the United States above all other nations? What president wasnt a nationalist? The rest of your list is little more than a mixture of hackish opinion and overblown rhetoric. Trump was not a fascist and anyone who claims he is is either uneducated on the subject or making a baseless political smear.
 
iguanaman said:
Actually it is the Trump party that has embraced the tactics of the 3rd Reich to remain in power.
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Trump isnt in power and neither is the 'Trump party'. So much for your stupid theory. But go ahead, fill me in on these Third Reich tactics that Trump embraced
 
Lawrence Britt's 14 common elements of Fascism. Trump ticks most of the boxes.
  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
  4. Supremacy of the Military
  5. Rampant Sexism
  6. Controlled Mass Media
  7. Obsession with National Security
  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
  9. Corporate Power is Protected
  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
  14. Fraudulent Elections
 
Let's go through Umbert Eco's 14 points shall we. Remember no Fascist movement has actually met all 14 criteria, meeting most of them tend to be enough. Let's compare them to Trumpism. Then again if it's just a few points that are fulfilled it's not Fascism, since quite a few movements fulfil one or two of the criteria.

1. Cult of Tradition
Yeah, this one checks out neatly with the Trumpists. Heck even the optional occultist trait checks out with the QAnon variant.

2. The rejection of modernism
Checks out at least partially. Trumpists are always decrying Liberalism and rejecting scientific thought

3. The cult of action for action’s sake
YES. For Trumpists it often didn't matter what the Trump admin did as long as they did it, it was good by deafult. "Action should be swift and taken without reflection", yep sounds like Trumpism.

4. Disagreement is treason
Yes, we have heard the Trumpists many times say anyone who disagrees is a traitor.

5. Fear of difference
Yes, this one kind of explains itself.

6. Appeal to social frustration
Many political movement does that, and so does Trumpism

7. The obsession with a plot
Yes! With several weird plots in fact, but the latest and most dangerous that somehow there was widespread fraud in the election despite there being no evidence for it.

8. The enemy is both strong and weak
This one I am a little bit uncertain how well it fits. Trump himself has rambled about mainstream media being both too strong and pathetically weak, so at least he has said it, but I dunno if it's actually something that characterize Trumpism. I am going to say pass, and that Trumpism doesn't fulfil this criteria.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy
Trump and Trumpism has a weird love/ hate relationship with the military, they are definitely not pacifists, but I haven't seen them really speak out hard against pacifism either. I do say the idea of a struggle that is bigger than life that Umberto Eco somewhat refers to when explaining this point, kinda fits, but I am hesitant to say that really characterize Trumpism. I will say pass, they don't fulfil this criteria.

10. Contempt for the weak
Oh yes, definitely. Anyone that has followed their discourse can see that the weaker in society are seen as pathetic and not worthy

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero.
Yes, they have a strong macho culture, and belief in the man of action. The struggle is fought by the heroes of the movement who lives and dies for the movement. Culminating of course in the failed Capitol coup.

12. Machismo and weaponry
This means both rejection of "non-standard" sexual habits and a disdain for women. Yes, Trumpism has elements of this for sure. Many Trumpists have a very sexist view on women and condemn the LGBTQ communities.

13. Selective populism.
The idea that people are actually a selective small group, and the rest of the people don't know what's good for them and thus they should fall in line, because the real voice of the people is the voice of the right people. YES, Trumpism very much fit this

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak.
Basically the movement has it's own language divorced from reality, that is meant to supplant existing language and thus change the meaning of words the Fascists don't like. I am a little hesitant, but in a way their trolling memes kind of fits. So I am going to say yes.

So Trumpism meet 12 of the 14 criteria. Sounds pretty fascist.
 
Allan said:
Lawrence Britt's 14 common elements of Fascism. Trump ticks most of the boxes.
  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
  4. Supremacy of the Military
  5. Rampant Sexism
  6. Controlled Mass Media
  7. Obsession with National Security
  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
  9. Corporate Power is Protected
  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
  14. Fraudulent Elections
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He doesnt tick any of those boxes.
 
Allan said:
Lawrence Britt's 14 common elements of Fascism. Trump ticks most of the boxes.
  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
  4. Supremacy of the Military
  5. Rampant Sexism
  6. Controlled Mass Media
  7. Obsession with National Security
  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
  9. Corporate Power is Protected
  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
  14. Fraudulent Elections
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1. MAGA
2. Child separation policy at border, ignoring disasters in puerto rico or in blue states
3. Illegal aliens, ANTIFA, BLM
4. This one is mixed, Trump liked his silly parades but also dislike military people in general and thought they were suckers
5. "grab them by the ..."
6. Newsmax, OAN, breitbart, etc
7. this one is mixed as well I think, mainly due to Trump's incompetence and distrust for our national security agencies
8. This has been attempted since the Reagan administration
9. Except for social media corporations, the Trump administration was a give away to corps
10. Mixed, Trump did like certain unions as long as they towed the line
11. That is most conservatives in general
12. same as point 11
13. Trump installing sycophants and his family in the guise of training some mythical swamp
14. He tried, such as the call in Georgia and then stoked an insurrection when he didn't get his way

So yeah, most points fit
 
Labels, in what passes these days for political discourse, are tossed about in reckless abandon. 'Fascism' is certainly one which can serve as an example. 'Socialism' is another. If one is to say, for instance, that the presidency of Mr. Donald Trump was authoritarian, it behooves one to at least provide some supporting information.

Here's one way to go about it. Begin by reading up on what historians, sociologists, political theorists, economists and/or others [as required by the specific word] have written. From their writings, develop a list of characteristics which pertain. Then compare the list with the case in point.

If the intent is to call Mr. Trump a fascist, develop a check list of, say, the 10 most important characteristics of fascism as selected by historians. Then examine the administration of Mr. Trump to see if there is or is not a fit with each of those characteristics.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
 
Fletch said:
Trump isnt in power and neither is the 'Trump party'. So much for your stupid theory. But go ahead, fill me in on these Third Reich tactics that Trump embraced
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Failure of a coup does not change the intent or the culpability. Being a moron does not give him a pass.
 
iguanaman said:
Failure of a coup does not change the intent or the culpability. Being a moron does not give him a pass.
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Oh wait, you think he actually tried to stay in power via coup? 😂 No wonder there is no getting through to you.
 
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