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Trump, While Attacking Mail Voting, Casts Mail Ballot Again

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Trump, While Attacking Mail Voting, Casts Mail Ballot Again
August 19, 20204:11 PM ET

President Trump cast a vote-by-mail ballot in Florida this week, after months of questioning the security of the method of voting, and in doing so he returned it to election officials using a technique many Republicans say should be illegal.

The way Trump voted shows how he's had to walk a fine line, and often tweak his language around voting, to adjust for political realities and his own behavior.

Trump submitted the Florida primary ballot by giving it to a third party to return, a spokesperson for the Palm Beach elections supervisor confirmed to NPR Wednesday. Republicans often derisively refer to sending in a ballot this way as "ballot harvesting," and it's something Trump himself has been critical of.

Trump Votes By Mail In Florida After Criticizing Practice : NPR

The above speaks volumes
 
Didn’t ya hear? Absentee ballots are different from mail in ballots.
 
Trump submitted the Florida primary ballot by giving it to a third party to return, a spokesperson for the Palm Beach elections supervisor confirmed to NPR Wednesday.

I hear Trump had his mail-in ballot flown down to Florida on Air Force 1.
 
Didn’t ya hear? Absentee ballots are different from mail in ballots.
I heard the two were entirely indistinguishable, which is why no new laws or constitutional amendments needed to be passed for mail-in ballots, and why elections in states that switched over went as smoothly as ever.

New York Allow for No-Excuse Absentee Voting Amendment (2021) - Ballotpedia

A month later, this New York City primary is still a train wreck and a warning to us all - Washington Post
 
...as I say...


...and not as I do.





not surprising.
 
I highly encourage everyone voting Democrat to do so by mail.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Didn’t ya hear? Absentee ballots are different from mail in ballots.

They are.

Absentee ballots are used when one is ABSENT from the State of residence, and not able to go to the local polling station. Hence, the name.

For example; I cast an absentee ballot when I was stationed OVERSEAS at a military post.

At that time I was a resident of NY State. Couldn't make it to the polls ya see?

Mail-in voting, while it uses a similar process, refers to getting a mail-in ballot and voting by mail rather than going in-person to a polling place.

Absentee Ballots are not used out of "convenience," whereas the kinds of "mail-in voting" your side is advocating is done simply to make it easier for people to vote.

More risk of fraud, lost ballots, and ballots being rejected for some reason, but hey...more convenient right?
 
well, he's a hypocrite. both he and his top henchman vote by mail.
 
They are.

Absentee ballots are used when one is ABSENT from the State of residence, and not able to go to the local polling station. Hence, the name.

For example; I cast an absentee ballot when I was stationed OVERSEAS at a military post.

At that time I was a resident of NY State. Couldn't make it to the polls ya see?

Mail-in voting, while it uses a similar process, refers to getting a mail-in ballot and voting by mail rather than going in-person to a polling place.

Absentee Ballots are not used out of "convenience," whereas the kinds of "mail-in voting" your side is advocating is done simply to make it easier for people to vote.

More risk of fraud, lost ballots, and ballots being rejected for some reason, but hey...more convenient right?

So in one case you vote by mail.

Whereas in the other you vote by mail.
 
They are.

Absentee ballots are used when one is ABSENT from the State of residence, and not able to go to the local polling station. Hence, the name.

For example; I cast an absentee ballot when I was stationed OVERSEAS at a military post.

At that time I was a resident of NY State. Couldn't make it to the polls ya see?

Mail-in voting, while it uses a similar process, refers to getting a mail-in ballot and voting by mail rather than going in-person to a polling place.

Absentee Ballots are not used out of "convenience," whereas the kinds of "mail-in voting" your side is advocating is done simply to make it easier for people to vote.

More risk of fraud, lost ballots, and ballots being rejected for some reason, but hey...more convenient right?

As President Donald Trump rolled to his West Palm Beach, Florida, golf course on the morning of March 7, his motorcade filed past a library where local officials were preparing for the first day of in-person early voting in Florida's presidential primary contest.

Trump didn't stop at that site or any of the 15 other early voting locations in Palm Beach County that were opening that day. By the time the library opened for voting at 10 a.m., Trump had already arrived at his golf course — whose main entrance is across Summit Boulevard from the library. When he departed the course hours later, he didn't stop to vote either.
Trump would drive past the library four more times that weekend without dropping in to cast a ballot. Instead, he voted by mail

Trump could have voted in person in Florida this year but chose not to - CNNPolitics
 
They are.

Absentee ballots are used when one is ABSENT from the State of residence, and not able to go to the local polling station. Hence, the name.

For example; I cast an absentee ballot when I was stationed OVERSEAS at a military post.

At that time I was a resident of NY State. Couldn't make it to the polls ya see?

Mail-in voting, while it uses a similar process, refers to getting a mail-in ballot and voting by mail rather than going in-person to a polling place.

Absentee Ballots are not used out of "convenience," whereas the kinds of "mail-in voting" your side is advocating is done simply to make it easier for people to vote.

More risk of fraud, lost ballots, and ballots being rejected for some reason, but hey...more convenient right?

You are wrong. I often vote absentee and I live 2 blocks from the polling precinct. You do not need to be out of state to vote absentee. You just have to ask for a ballot.

Get your absentee ballot from your state or territory.

Visit Can I Vote and choose your state from the dropdown menu. It will take you right to your state's absentee voting page.

Your state may require you to have a valid excuse to vote absentee. Acceptable excuses vary by state. Most include:

Being unable to get to your polling place due to illness, injury, or disability.
Being on business travel or vacation outside of your county or city of residence on Election Day
Being a student at an out-of-state college or university

This table shows which states require an excuse and the excuses each state will accept.

Follow your state’s instructions for requesting an absentee or vote-by-mail ballot.

Absentee and Early Voting | USAGov
 
You are wrong. I often vote absentee and I live 2 blocks from the polling precinct. You do not need to be out of state to vote absentee. You just have to ask for a ballot.



Absentee and Early Voting | USAGov

No, YOU are wrong:

An absentee ballot is a ballot used to cast a vote by a person who cannot physically be present at their designated voting center on Election Day. The ballot is then submitted by mail. Currently all states have some version of absentee voting.

Common reasons people apply for absentee ballots are being outside the country, being in prison but still able to vote, having religious beliefs that prevent then for going to a voting center, working on being on jury duty during polling hours, or serving as an election worker or poll watcher.

What is a mail-in ballot?

Five states already conducts elections in a process called all-mail voting. Registered voters in Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington automatically receive a mail ballot before Election Day and the ballot is then mailed back or deposited a voting location on Election Day.

Absentee ballots vs. mail-in ballots: What's the difference? | Latest News | tulsaworld.com

What the Democrats are proposing is a National mail-in ballot process where hundreds of millions of mail-in ballots are sent to all registered voters. Tell me that is not going to be a nightmare of delays in counting, lost ballots, fraud, double voting, ballots discounted because they are not completed properly...on and on.
 
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No, YOU are wrong:



Absentee ballots vs. mail-in ballots: What's the difference? | Latest News | tulsaworld.com

What the Denocrats are proposing is a National mail-in ballot process where hundreds of millions of mail-in ballots are sent to all registered voters. Tell me that is not going to be a nightmare.

How is it a problem with send a mail-in ballot to every registered voter with an address? The states and federal government managed to do with the recent stimulus checks, the census and they do it with IRS and social security checks.
 
They are.

Absentee ballots are used when one is ABSENT from the State of residence, and not able to go to the local polling station. Hence, the name.

For example; I cast an absentee ballot when I was stationed OVERSEAS at a military post.

At that time I was a resident of NY State. Couldn't make it to the polls ya see?

Mail-in voting, while it uses a similar process, refers to getting a mail-in ballot and voting by mail rather than going in-person to a polling place.

Absentee Ballots are not used out of "convenience," whereas the kinds of "mail-in voting" your side is advocating is done simply to make it easier for people to vote.

More risk of fraud, lost ballots, and ballots being rejected for some reason, but hey...more convenient right?

In this case the mechanism is what is in dispute and is what matters.

Why shouldn’t we make it easier for people to vote? You say that like it’s somehow a bad thing. Should we be making it harder for people to vote?

There is no evidence of widespread mail in vote fraud.

There is a legitimate concern about volume especially if people wait until the last minute to vote. But that can be dealt with and in any case insuring that those who want to vote can is important.
 
How is it a problem with send a mail-in ballot to every registered voter with an address? The states and federal government managed to do with the recent stimulus checks, the census and they do it with IRS and social security checks.

That's only ONE side of the problem. Which includes people who are dead, people who've changed address, people who may have left the country. Not to mention ballots going missing because, well some postal delivery persons might not feel like lugging them around, and end up dumping them...as has happened.

Then we come to the submission of the ballots. One BIG problem is delivery of the votes. Processing hundreds of millions of "first class" mail-in ballots. Many might get "lost," others damaged. Some simply "forgotten" and never processed.

Then we are still left with processing them once received. How many millions will be discarded because they were not properly filled out. Or that they were delivered too late?

What about security of those ballots? To insure no duplicates, or other fraudulent votes are cast?

Then there is the simple task of validating and counting properly hundreds of millions of votes. It could be weeks, or even months before it is all ironed out and a "final victor" is declared.

Then, as with the Bush v. Gore election, either Party can present legal challenges, and delay the results even further as the suit winds it's way up to the SCOTUS.
 
They are.

Absentee ballots are used when one is ABSENT from the State of residence, and not able to go to the local polling station. Hence, the name.

For example; I cast an absentee ballot when I was stationed OVERSEAS at a military post.

At that time I was a resident of NY State. Couldn't make it to the polls ya see?

Mail-in voting, while it uses a similar process, refers to getting a mail-in ballot and voting by mail rather than going in-person to a polling place.

Absentee Ballots are not used out of "convenience," whereas the kinds of "mail-in voting" your side is advocating is done simply to make it easier for people to vote.

More risk of fraud, lost ballots, and ballots being rejected for some reason, but hey...more convenient right?
I probably cast at least a half-dozen absentee ballots while deployed. Being literally half a world away makes it difficult to get to the polls. When stateside, however, I made it a point to go to my polling station. My briefcase had "I voted" stickers all over it.
 
In this case the mechanism is what is in dispute and is what matters.

Why shouldn’t we make it easier for people to vote? You say that like it’s somehow a bad thing. Should we be making it harder for people to vote?

There is no evidence of widespread mail in vote fraud.

There is a legitimate concern about volume especially if people wait until the last minute to vote. But that can be dealt with and in any case insuring that those who want to vote can is important.

Explain why? You mean beside the issues with the process itself?

Several reasons.

1. It is open to fraud. For example, what is to prevent some unscrupulous individuals from "buying" votes? I don't mean like the Democrats in Congress have been trying to do with all those money giveaways. I'm talking about literally offering people a small sum of money to fill out the forms for a preferred candidate? Or better yet, to simply put one's info on the form, sign it, and let the "purchaser" fill it out and mail it? Then there is the alternate issue of stolen identity. What's to prevent theft if personal information and then use it to fill out ballots with? Finally, and this is especially true of the elderly, allowing a "trusted" caregiver the ballots to fill out after the elder has signed?

2. It is subject to Mailing errors. Ballots miss-mailed and the recipients either don't get one, or get the wrong one? Then there is the processing problem, with so much mail being processed some might get a late date so as too "late for the count? Or simply be "lost" and delivered days or week too late, if at all.

3. It is subject to voter error. Ballots not filled out properly, or completely. Not signed, or properly ID'ed.

4. It is a burdensome, time consuming process. We are dealing with MAIL here. Mail that has to be counted. Just look at the 2016 elections where with even the modest number of absentee ballots there were some delays in determining the local winners, much less the national election. Multiply that by hundreds of millions of mail-in ballots.

5. IMO it should not be so easy it can be treated with indifference. Voting is a privilege of citizenship. It has been limited by age (it wasn't until the 70's that people under 21 could vote), sex (it wasn't until the Equal Rights Amendment that Women were guaranteed to vote), and in many State's those who are incarcerated can't vote. It still requires one be a citizen and at least 18 years old.

So IMO it should be treated in all seriousness; not something one does between stuffing their faces while watching TV and going to the restroom.

Get off your lazy patoot, walk some of those overweight pounds off, KNOW what you are doing and why you are voting, and spend the time doing it.

The last thing I want to see is a real "Idiocracy" style of "I'll buy THAT for a dollar" style of voting.
 
Trump, While Attacking Mail Voting, Casts Mail Ballot Again
August 19, 20204:11 PM ET

President Trump cast a vote-by-mail ballot in Florida this week, after months of questioning the security of the method of voting, and in doing so he returned it to election officials using a technique many Republicans say should be illegal.

The way Trump voted shows how he's had to walk a fine line, and often tweak his language around voting, to adjust for political realities and his own behavior.

Trump submitted the Florida primary ballot by giving it to a third party to return, a spokesperson for the Palm Beach elections supervisor confirmed to NPR Wednesday. Republicans often derisively refer to sending in a ballot this way as "ballot harvesting," and it's something Trump himself has been critical of.

Trump Votes By Mail In Florida After Criticizing Practice : NPR

The above speaks volumes

Big fat straw man. Trump is ridiculous in so many ways. You don't have to make things up.
 
Trump, While Attacking Mail Voting, Casts Mail Ballot Again
August 19, 20204:11 PM ET

President Trump cast a vote-by-mail ballot in Florida this week, after months of questioning the security of the method of voting, and in doing so he returned it to election officials using a technique many Republicans say should be illegal.

The way Trump voted shows how he's had to walk a fine line, and often tweak his language around voting, to adjust for political realities and his own behavior.

Trump submitted the Florida primary ballot by giving it to a third party to return, a spokesperson for the Palm Beach elections supervisor confirmed to NPR Wednesday. Republicans often derisively refer to sending in a ballot this way as "ballot harvesting," and it's something Trump himself has been critical of.

Trump Votes By Mail In Florida After Criticizing Practice : NPR

The above speaks volumes

Trump has stated that he has no problem with absentee mail-in voting.

It is the universal mail-in ballot that will make the election unfair.
 
Explain why? You mean beside the issues with the process itself?

Several reasons.

1. It is open to fraud. For example, what is to prevent some unscrupulous individuals from "buying" votes? I don't mean like the Democrats in Congress have been trying to do with all those money giveaways. I'm talking about literally offering people a small sum of money to fill out the forms for a preferred candidate? Or better yet, to simply put one's info on the form, sign it, and let the "purchaser" fill it out and mail it? Then there is the alternate issue of stolen identity. What's to prevent theft if personal information and then use it to fill out ballots with? Finally, and this is especially true of the elderly, allowing a "trusted" caregiver the ballots to fill out after the elder has signed?

2. It is subject to Mailing errors. Ballots miss-mailed and the recipients either don't get one, or get the wrong one? Then there is the processing problem, with so much mail being processed some might get a late date so as too "late for the count? Or simply be "lost" and delivered days or week too late, if at all.

3. It is subject to voter error. Ballots not filled out properly, or completely. Not signed, or properly ID'ed.

4. It is a burdensome, time consuming process. We are dealing with MAIL here. Mail that has to be counted. Just look at the 2016 elections where with even the modest number of absentee ballots there were some delays in determining the local winners, much less the national election. Multiply that by hundreds of millions of mail-in ballots.

5. IMO it should not be so easy it can be treated with indifference. Voting is a privilege of citizenship. It has been limited by age (it wasn't until the 70's that people under 21 could vote), sex (it wasn't until the Equal Rights Amendment that Women were guaranteed to vote), and in many State's those who are incarcerated can't vote. It still requires one be a citizen and at least 18 years old.

So IMO it should be treated in all seriousness; not something one does between stuffing their faces while watching TV and going to the restroom.

Get off your lazy patoot, walk some of those overweight pounds off, KNOW what you are doing and why you are voting, and spend the time doing it.

The last thing I want to see is a real "Idiocracy" style of "I'll buy THAT for a dollar" style of voting.

I don’t view voting as a privilege. To me it is a right as well as an obligation. In the modern world there is no reason to force people to wait in lines to vote, pandemic or not.

I’m much more interested in making sure people have access to the information they need to make informed decisions than I am with adding needless hurdles to their exercising their voting rights.

Is there any evidence at all of widespread voter fraud in any of the states that use it extensively?

Mail delivery isn’t an issue. The post office delivers close to a half billion pieces of mail a day. A few hundred million more even spread across several days, as opposed to the much more likely several weeks, is not going to be an issue.

I agree that some votes may not get counted for technical reasons but I’m not sure that that is greater evil than having people just not vote because they’re afraid of being in a line with others.

As well I’m sure they will be slow to count and we will likely not know who the President will be several days or even a week or more. I’m honestly fine with that. The EC meets in early December so as long as we know by then we’re fine.

Any new system is going to have bugs. That’s the nature of the beast but those can be fixed once identified and as long as correct result is achieved - that the will of people in the aggregate is expressed in the election results I’m fine with it.
 
Is there any evidence at all of widespread voter fraud in any of the states that use it extensively?

I keep hearing this question, as if the dearth (or alleged absence) of evidence equates to it not happening. Yet it DOES happen:

15 Election Results That Were Thrown Out Because of Fraudulent Mail-In Ballots
15 Election Results That Were Tossed Over Fraudulent Mail-In Ballots

Meanwhile, it is not easy to prove even if one suspects it. Why?

How do you even check? Who the hell is even checking?

A mail-in ballot is submitted. As long as it is signed, and whatever voter ID is present in it, the presumption is that it is valid.

Yet it could have been filled out by a relative who votes for themselves and uses one or more other relative's ballot to vote multiple times. It could have been "bought," "altered," or even discarded by a vote harvester in those States that allow vote harvesting. It could have been filled out by a trusted "caregiver" for various nursing home clients, but not the way the client wanted to vote.

Mail delivery isn’t an issue. The post office delivers close to a half billion pieces of mail a day. A few hundred million more even spread across several days, as opposed to the much more likely several weeks, is not going to be an issue.

Really?

Yes it IS an issue. There have been many stories posted in the MSM over the years, some posted in this Forum about finding piles of mail-in ballots in dumpsters, or left in unsecure locations. Mail mis-delivered, lost in the mail, delivered late, not properly postmarked, damaged, etc.

28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections
28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections | RealClearPolitics!

More than 16M mail-in ballots went missing from 2016 and 2018 elections: Report
More than 16M mail-in ballots went missing from 2016 and 2018 elections: Report

I agree that some votes may not get counted for technical reasons but I’m not sure that that is greater evil than having people just not vote because they’re afraid of being in a line with others.

Some votes? Under current mail-in balloting anywhere from 1% - 3% are not counted. Now what is 1 to 3% of 300 million? 1 - 3 MILLION votes. That's nothing to sneeze at. Elections are won and lost within those margins.

Here's the problem with mail-in votes. The might not be counted
https:/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/21/heres-problem-with-mail-in-ballots-they-might-not-be-counted/

As well I’m sure they will be slow to count and we will likely not know who the President will be several days or even a week or more. I’m honestly fine with that. The EC meets in early December so as long as we know by then we’re fine.

What if we DON'T know by then? Once again we are talking about hundreds of millions of votes. Did you not recall those issues with Florida in 2000 and 2016 with "suddenly found ballots?" (Same County btw).

Any new system is going to have bugs. That’s the nature of the beast but those can be fixed once identified and as long as correct result is achieved - that the will of people in the aggregate is expressed in the election results I’m fine with it.

Agreed, but...

I was going to put this in my original reply but the system crashed and my post was never completed.

You DON'T rush a new program, especially one as major and complicated as this. You take the time to develop the process, including security, rapid counting systems etc. Then you TEST it out on a minor election, see how the Post Office can handle it. So maybe a Congressional election year in between 2020 and 2024.

It is especially concerning that this program is being rushed so hard at this late date. IMO the Democrats are seeking a controversy in this upcoming election. Either to use as a wedge alleging Trump is scared and is "inhibiting the election process," or if allowed, they can use it to dispute the results win or lose.

Otherwise they would simply trust the old process and set up the mail-in process for the future, after proper research, testing, and development of all the processed to reduce my listed concerns.
 
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