• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump wanted out of NATO

Now you've slid back into being incoherent for which you are well known in these parts.

Right. Your blinders are effecting your reading skills.
 
It's working out just fine. NATO has trained tens of thousands of Ukraine military conscripts. A unit of the Tennessee National Guard has been there since the beginning of November 2018. Ukraine will be fully NATO compliant by 2020.

If it was "working out just fine" then Crimea would still be part of Ukraine, NATO was not prepared to really deal with that.
 
Sorry. Putin could take the losses he would incure sitting down, but maybe not his army would be so callus. Or his population. He fears not NATO. For NATO is a farce. I can prove that very easily. The Dutch are part of it. And the French. Two weak assed people who surrender to the sound of a paper lunch bag being popped.

Right. Your blinders are effecting your reading skills.


Your habitual fragmented incoherence is reaching new levels of obscurity and absurdity. You have the US Eighth Army in a no man's land twilight zone it never entered. Your fuzzy fantasies have seized the best of you for sure.

The French have made unequivocally clear that if Putin invades Europe Paris will go nuclear instantly. Right into Putin's lunch. You can bet your borscht Paris speaks for Nato on this. Because contrary to popular myth, nuclear weapons would not be held in reserve for an eventuality of staving off an imminent defeat in conventional war. Nato rather means business against a Putin invasion which is what keeps Putin putzing around in Crimea only and Ukraine while doing a kabuki dance at the borders of the Baltic states.

Russia is eons away from sustaining an invasion of the Nato defended EU. Moscow is capable of invading Ukraine, yes. Moscow is capable of invading the Baltic states yes. Romania yes. Singularly and alone, yes, each one of 'em. As part of Nato, no, not ever.

Putin knows this. With Trump as his instrument against Nato Putin wants these countries one by one, not as a part of Nato which make Putin's designs impossible. So Putin supports and funds instead conservative and right wing movements in Nato countries to include against the United States in both EU and in the United States. Cyber warfare is a lot cheaper than tanks and masses of troops anyway.
 
Your habitual fragmented incoherence is reaching new levels of obscurity and absurdity. You have the US Eighth Army in a no man's land twilight zone it never entered. Your fuzzy fantasies have seized the best of you for sure.

The French have made unequivocally clear that if Putin invades Europe Paris will go nuclear instantly. Right into Putin's lunch. You can bet your borscht Paris speaks for Nato on this. Because contrary to popular myth, nuclear weapons would not be held in reserve for an eventuality of staving off an imminent defeat in conventional war. Nato rather means business against a Putin invasion which is what keeps Putin putzing around in Crimea only and Ukraine while doing a kabuki dance at the borders of the Baltic states.

Russia is eons away from sustaining an invasion of the Nato defended EU. Moscow is capable of invading Ukraine, yes. Moscow is capable of invading the Baltic states yes. Romania yes. Singularly and alone, yes, each one of 'em. As part of Nato, no, not ever.

Putin knows this. With Trump as his instrument against Nato Putin wants these countries one by one, not as a part of Nato which make Putin's designs impossible. So Putin supports and funds instead conservative and right wing movements in Nato countries to include against the United States in both EU and in the United States. Cyber warfare is a lot cheaper than tanks and masses of troops anyway.
I’m sorry you’ve never read about our 8th army in Korea and it’s capture almost en mass. Of the 6,000 plus who disappeared, I’m safe to say that we never heard from 6,000 of them.
 
good. I hope he re-floats that idea.

Good, I hope y'all treason trials and sentencing (firing squads) get free network time, I'd have to make popcorn and invite friends.:2rofll:
 
He probably wants to create a new alliance - with Russia and North Korea. He can call it NKVD - the Nation of Kim, Vlad and Don.

Yeah the D would be last because he's clearly the sub/bitch of the three......
 
I’m sorry you’ve never read about our 8th army in Korea and it’s capture almost en mass. Of the 6,000 plus who disappeared, I’m safe to say that we never heard from 6,000 of them.

Now you've become specific thx.

What it has to do with Nato is another matter.

Your mention of the 8th Army which remains in SK to the present is out of place, out of time and out of the context of Nato, EU, Russia. Kim, Xi Jinpingpong and Trump talk about the 8th Army out of SK which is another mark against Trump as CinC. You do know Trump's dayze are numbered of course.
 
Good, I hope y'all treason trials and sentencing (firing squads) get free network time, I'd have to make popcorn and invite friends.:2rofll:

Your point is well taken and I'd add my take to it which is consistent with yours.

Trump's not going to get his wall but there are plenty of walls around and readily available anywhere throughout the country. So I advise my friends and colleagues to go long on cigarettes and blindfolds. Long is getting shorter now so I'm advising procrastinators not to lose any time on it. Cause given the huge number of Putin-Trump-Fanboys across the land we'll need a second national reconstruction once the smoke has cleared, one that will be serious and for keeps this time around.

Jus sayin.
 
Now you've become specific thx.

What it has to do with Nato is another matter.

Your mention of the 8th Army which remains in SK to the present is out of place, out of time and out of the context of Nato, EU, Russia. Kim, Xi Jinpingpong and Trump talk about the 8th Army out of SK which is another mark against Trump as CinC. You do know Trump's dayze are numbered of course.
No. It’s not. Russia took possession of our troops. They need to return them. Someone tried to tell me Putin is my hero. They are sadly mistaken on that point. As for what President Trump does tomorrow or the next day, that’s his choice. If he wishes to lead me, I will follow him if his intents look promising. Right now he owes me an apology for listening to his son in law and claiming a phony gas attack by Assad. Maybe I owe him one for cussing him out. Maybe I don’t. If he wants to appear as a gunslinger and shoot from the hip without thinking things through first, then so be it. It’s his choice. I don’t have to praise him like the left here did to an idiot who’s brother still ****s in a bucket.
 
If it was "working out just fine" then Crimea would still be part of Ukraine, NATO was not prepared to really deal with that.

Was NATO not prepared to deal with it or was the 2nd worst President of the modern era, Obama (Trump being the worst) not prepared to deal with it?

IMO, we have had in succession the three worst presidents of the modern era, 43 followed by slightly worse Obama followed by cosmically worse Trump.
 
Your point is well taken and I'd add my take to it which is consistent with yours.

Trump's not going to get his wall but there are plenty of walls around and readily available anywhere throughout the country. So I advise my friends and colleagues to go long on cigarettes and blindfolds. Long is getting shorter now so I'm advising procrastinators not to lose any time on it. Cause given the huge number of Putin-Trump-Fanboys across the land we'll need a second national reconstruction once the smoke has cleared, one that will be serious and for keeps this time around.

Jus sayin.

We can fantasize, but truth is, NOBODY I'm seeing is reading this Barr nomination right. He's not gonna obstruct or block Mueller, he's there to figure the "pardons all around" exit strategy. He did that for Iran-Contra and that's why he was picked here.

Trump and his incompetence and corruption will undo his presidency and hopefully his wealth, but he won't spend a day in jail, neither with Jared, Ivanka or Don Jr. EVERONE else around them is in legal jeapoardy, but not the Trump's.:roll:

Financial ruin is the most I think that can be accomplished, and I hope it will be because it's well deserved. All these folks should die discredited paupers.
 
No. It’s not. Russia took possession of our troops. They need to return them. Someone tried to tell me Putin is my hero. They are sadly mistaken on that point. As for what President Trump does tomorrow or the next day, that’s his choice. If he wishes to lead me, I will follow him if his intents look promising. Right now he owes me an apology for listening to his son in law and claiming a phony gas attack by Assad. Maybe I owe him one for cussing him out. Maybe I don’t. If he wants to appear as a gunslinger and shoot from the hip without thinking things through first, then so be it. It’s his choice. I don’t have to praise him like the left here did to an idiot who’s brother still ****s in a bucket.

Got it.

You got it severely.

Whatever it is you got it. All of it.

Eighth Army btw is in fact in South Korea. Eighth Army's been in SK since the Korean Conflict. It rotates personnel all the time of course from then to the present. While it does get restructured from time to time it's not going anywhere Kim, Xi and Trump may like to see it go which is away. It'll be staying put for some time yet. Same as Nato will remain whole and in place restraining and containing Putin and his gang.
 
Putin must be floating on clouds and feeling very proud this morning...
 
We can fantasize, but truth is, NOBODY I'm seeing is reading this Barr nomination right. He's not gonna obstruct or block Mueller, he's there to figure the "pardons all around" exit strategy. He did that for Iran-Contra and that's why he was picked here.

Trump and his incompetence and corruption will undo his presidency and hopefully his wealth, but he won't spend a day in jail, neither with Jared, Ivanka or Don Jr. EVERONE else around them is in legal jeapoardy, but not the Trump's.:roll:

Financial ruin is the most I think that can be accomplished, and I hope it will be because it's well deserved. All these folks should die discredited paupers.

They can join the traitor Snowden in Moscow I'd suppose. It's where Assange hopes to end up but that's still an open question for numerous reasons. While Putin owes a lot to the whole gang of 'em Putin's unlikely to come out of this intact either. Neither will the Putin-Trump-Fanboys in USA fare well. For them it's likely to be much more of an adios.
 
They can join the traitor Snowden in Moscow I'd suppose. It's where Assange hopes to end up but that's still an open question for numerous reasons. While Putin owes a lot to the whole gang of 'em Putin's unlikely to come out of this intact either. Neither will the Putin-Trump-Fanboys in USA fare well. For them it's likely to be much more of an adios.

Oh I think Putin will dump Trump like so much hot turds. He has no respect for Trump, he's using him. I also think Trump's bumbling and our other institutions (even Reppublicans who have patriotically supported sanctions against the administration's wishes) and lack of producing Putin's results will win him no favor with Putin. Putin wanted us out of NATO or NATO significantly weakened. So far, Trump has been inept at every level. Making mild progress, but not fully keeping any of his promises. And now that it's all getting exposed, I think Putin is not happy with the resulst as he wanted to be.
 
Was NATO not prepared to deal with it or was the 2nd worst President of the modern era, Obama (Trump being the worst) not prepared to deal with it?

IMO, we have had in succession the three worst presidents of the modern era, 43 followed by slightly worse Obama followed by cosmically worse Trump.

That brings up a very interesting discussion.

If NATO was somehow throttled by a less than ideal President, then what does that say about NATO?

That is more or less saying that if NATO is primarily driven by the will of US foreign policy then why have them? We have our own military and seemingly have no problems gallivanting around the world telling everyone what they are doing wrong, at the same time we have no problems holding some ~800 military bases in more than ~70 countries around the globe.

So again... why NATO?
 
That brings up a very interesting discussion.

If NATO was somehow throttled by a less than ideal President, then what does that say about NATO?

That is more or less saying that if NATO is primarily driven by the will of US foreign policy then why have them? We have our own military and seemingly have no problems gallivanting around the world telling everyone what they are doing wrong, at the same time we have no problems holding some ~800 military bases in more than ~70 countries around the globe.

So again... why NATO?

If you run any war simulation you find that America's greatest strength is its allies. Alone the U.S. is strong but not strong enough to project that power anywhere in the world.
 
That brings up a very interesting discussion.

If NATO was somehow throttled by a less than ideal President, then what does that say about NATO?

That is more or less saying that if NATO is primarily driven by the will of US foreign policy then why have them? We have our own military and seemingly have no problems gallivanting around the world telling everyone what they are doing wrong, at the same time we have no problems holding some ~800 military bases in more than ~70 countries around the globe.

So again... why NATO?

Russia.
 
I’m sorry you’ve never read about our 8th army in Korea and it’s capture almost en mass. Of the 6,000 plus who disappeared, I’m safe to say that we never heard from 6,000 of them.

Trump likes heroes who weren't captured.
 
That brings up a very interesting discussion.

If NATO was somehow throttled by a less than ideal President, then what does that say about NATO?

That is more or less saying that if NATO is primarily driven by the will of US foreign policy then why have them? We have our own military and seemingly have no problems gallivanting around the world telling everyone what they are doing wrong, at the same time we have no problems holding some ~800 military bases in more than ~70 countries around the globe.

So again... why NATO?

No you are misreading the context. NATO had no specific dog in the fight of Putin and Crimea, not at that point anyway. However, the NATO alliance would have and should have given an American President a platform from which to launch a cooperative, concerted effort to respond to Putin. Instead we got nothing. Obama literally did nothing relevant IMO and he certainly did not use to any degree the considerable and ready platform that the NATO alliance provided to him as a means to respond. To me, just a staggering lack of understanding and use of geopolitical tools. Frankly I doubt Trump would have done better, probably worse.
 
Last edited:
I do too, only in so much as I'd love to see those EU nations squirm at the very thought of it happening. That said, strategically, notwithstanding the freeloading EU, NATO is still very much a good idea. Besides, he would need congressional approval for such a move, he wouldn't find much support from congress on this one, I'm afraid.


Tim-

I hope he does too. I hope he pulls the US out of NATO. Maybe that'll end the whining about nations who don't spend enough on military.
 
I hope he does too. I hope he pulls the US out of NATO. Maybe that'll end the whining about nations who don't spend enough on military.


Trump can't "pull the US out of NATO" as it's a binding defense treaty voted by Congress. Trump would have to go to congress with any such proposal. Specifically the Senate would have to vote to agree with Putin-Trump-Fanboys.

The proposal itself by Potus/CinC is subversive and it is a threat to the US national security and the national sovereignty. And to global stability. So Trump will find himself in a sandtrap before too much longer going on like this. He's already up to his ass with alligators in the swamp of his own creation.
 
The NY Times is reporting that last year President Trump floated the idea of withdrawing the USA from the NATO pact.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html



This comes on the heels of two blockbuster reports over the weekend which are causing many to seriously evaluate the Trump/Russia relationship and to question where Trumps motivations - if not his loyalties - truly lie.


My gawd, you are just now coming to this epiphany?


Say it isn't so.
 
My gawd, you are just now coming to this epiphany?


Say it isn't so.

Not at all my friend - not at all. I have been convinced for over two years now that Trump has been in league illegally with the Russians. And there is no doubt that he is a Russian asset. The latest events are merely adding additional layers of evidence.
 
Not at all my friend - not at all. I have been convinced for over two years now that Trump has been in league illegally with the Russians. And there is no doubt that he is a Russian asset. The latest events are merely adding additional layers of evidence.

"If you're listening Russia..."


At that point, anyone who still voted for Trump is an asshole.
 
Back
Top Bottom