Trump walks out of border security meeting after Pelosi rejects wall pitch

[iguanaman]

That is a blanket statement. Which is correct by direct literal terms but incorrect by context. (I have been learning more and more)

1) Repus NEVER had a Super Majority so any Bill that went through BOTH houses have a chance to be struck down
2) You CAN have a simple Majority for X bill to get through ONE house, BUT if ONE of the houses has a filibuster (Which the Democratic Senate has always done) You can delay and strike down the bill. As much of any bill from Trump has been Filibustered by the Senate.

3) Context of the WALL from February. Freedom Caucus (Repubs) DID NOT support the February bill because while they got $25billion they felt the 1.8million DACA was getting Amnesty which thye DID NOT support as a fair negotiation for the Wall
3a) Some Democrats as well Did NOT Agree with some of the "immigration reforms" that were stuck in with the WALL negotiation, SO the Feb bill was NOT just for the wall and it was NOT a 1 for 1


When you say I have no clue, I might not, But if above is false please correct me. Thanks!

I learned a lot more recently and did NOT understand the Simple Majority, Super Majority, filibuster & Cloture Rule. But Now I think I better understand and as we can see Having a Majority does NOT guarantee even CLOSE to a bill being passed PERIOD.

Nothing you have said explains why Trump did not even try to fund the wall or even develop a plan or bill to do so. He could have got anything he wanted thru the House and while he might have had trouble in the Senate there could have been at least an attempt to make some deal there. The truth is even the Republicans do not want Trumps wall.

After nearly two years in office, it’s now perfectly clear that this Congress won’t fund the wall and the next one — with the House led by Democrats — is even less inclined to do so. Trump’s chances at pushing through a signature campaign proposal have never been slimmer, a result of presidential weakness and internal conflicts among congressional Republicans.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-04/trump-s-wall-still-isn-t-funded-thanks-to-republicans

 

[Exactice]

I think I explained this already. Us Americans do not respond to extortion because it just encourages more of it and the Dems are Americans. They told Trump from the start that there would be no negotiating while the govt, is closed and that is what they are doing. Tell Trump to open the govt. first if you want to make a deal.

Move the goal post..... you just told me Trump has to offer something to get his "project" now its concede open the government and then they will negotiate. THEY NEVER DID its been 2 years since his inauguration and they have not. YOU honestly can tell me if Trump concedes. Pelosi WILL say ok we will negotiation? REALLY? Why have they NOT made a deal BEFORE the shutdown? Because they wanted to wait for the mid terms so they would NEVER have to negotiate... COMMON.......

 

[Exactice]

Nothing you have said explains why Trump did not even try to fund the wall or even develop a plan or bill to do so. He could have got anything he wanted thru the House and while he might have had trouble in the Senate there could have been at least an attempt to make some deal there. The truth is even the Republicans do not want Trumps wall.



https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-04/trump-s-wall-still-isn-t-funded-thanks-to-republicans

Context... Context Context.


TRUMP did make a deal in February, Freedom Caucus did NOT approve the 1.8million DACA Amnesty because they did NOT want to OFFER the Amnesty PERIOD. Had nothing to do with TRUMPS wall.

Secondly. The Republicans put in Immigration reform to limit Nucleus family sponsorship and other similar strict enforcement to immigration that DEMS did NOT want. Had NOTHING to do with the wall.

They ALL could have negotiated it out one for one, or one for the other. BUT they keep convoluting the whole damn thing period.


SO again REAL questions.

The Wall has nothing to do with the Gov. shutdown I CAN AGREE...... So IF in fact we concede RE OPEN the government WILL Pelosi & Schummer in GOOD FAITH negotiate with Trump 1 for one about the wall? Seriously. Like I said, OK Trump we will give you the wall if you give us DACA Amnesty? seriously? CAN you honestly say the would DO that? THEY WILL NOT, The already have said NO now, Why would the Say YES when the Government is open? More so now they have Majority in the HOUSE. What good will that do.

THERE IS ZERO Good Faith negotiation. If you cant see that, that I will "concede" that we will never see at least eye to eye.

 

[iguanaman]

Move the goal post..... you just told me Trump has to offer something to get his "project" now its concede open the government and then they will negotiate. THEY NEVER DID its been 2 years since his inauguration and they have not. YOU honestly can tell me if Trump concedes. Pelosi WILL say ok we will negotiation? REALLY? Why have they NOT made a deal BEFORE the shutdown? Because they wanted to wait for the mid terms so they would NEVER have to negotiate... COMMON.......

I told you that that is how our govt. WORKS. By negotiating a deal in Congress. There was no time to negotiate and no offers were made by Trump before he shut down the govt. The Dems in the House have already passed the GOP bills that gave Trump the FULL amount for border security that he requested in his 2018 budget, $1.6 billion. Then after the losses in the midterms he suddenly decided he needed $5.6 billion with nothing in it for the Dems. It's a non-starter and a despicable ploy from Trump. Here's the reason there has been no wall funding in the last 2 years...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/20/trump-border-wall-survey-congress-republicans-billions/640196001/

 

[sangha]

Hey Sangha! Happy New years.

My apologies but I may have missed, the part where they are willing to fund the wall? The last proposal was $1.6billion and WAS NOT supposed to be used for the wall? As for something in return? I Recall February 2018 they could have got 1.8 million amnesty for the $25billion, And Schummer shut it down? (Sorry could be a talking point but thats what I recall)?


As for wanting something in return, I CAN reason with that, THAT is fair. The only issue I have is that this is actually security, justify it all you want, it is for the US, it is for OUR border it is for OUR people. NOT illegals, not foreign aid, it does benefit the US as a whole. So with that.... I dont recall the Dems saying they would Negotiate X for the Wall its been NO Wall period?

As for leverage in the House, The house was not the problem? It passed the House? Its been the Senate and always has been the Senate?

Schumer did not shut it down. Trump did.

The rest of your post is very confusing. You are conflating negotiations that took place last year about DACA, with the current negotiations.

 

[Exactice]

I told you that that is how our govt. WORKS. By negotiating a deal in Congress. There was no time to negotiate and no offers were made by Trump before he shut down the govt. The Dems in the House have already passed the GOP bills that gave Trump the FULL amount for border security that he requested in his 2018 budget, $1.6 billion. Then after the losses in the midterms he suddenly decided he needed $5.6 billion with nothing in it for the Dems. It's a non-starter and a despicable ploy from Trump.

Again moving the goal post. While I can fairly accept "thats how the govt. works" ..... This is a terrible game for the dumbest of justifications.

$1.6billion is NOT going to do anything, SECONDLY it was stated by Schummer and Pelosi, we will give $1.6billion for security BUT not to be used for the wall.

Next is $5.6 billion concession from $25billion just 9 months ago? So he cut his budget request by 4/5ths of what he was asking for and they still said NO, and the original specifically forbid the money to used for the wall HOW is that good faith negotiation? There is NO give or take..... NONE..

Lastly, he didnt suddenly decided $5.6, HE ALWAYS WANTED $25billion but in "negotiations" cut it back to $5.6 billion???? Sounds like a negotiated offer to me?

 

[Exactice]

Schumer did not shut it down. Trump did.

The rest of your post is very confusing. You are conflating negotiations that took place last year about DACA, with the current negotiations.

Sorry Sangha, I had to bait you as I knew you would flip it...... I caption to "Talking point" as the ploy to indicate that no matter what side, Someone shut it down.


FACT of the MATTER TRUMP & Schummer BOTH shut it down to some extent. But context as I typed it prior shows the confusion of what was proposed in Both the Current Bill and the past February deal.

Feb's Deal was , $25bill + Wall + immigration reform for 1.8mill Daca Amnesty.

Repubs say NO to the Amensty.
Dems said no to the Immigration reform (no Visa lottery and merit based visa's)


Current bill was $1.6billion to border Security NOTHING for a wall

Trump Said NO, I want $5.6bill FOR the wall.... Period. Pelosi said no and now we are where we are...

ITS ALL Their FAULTS not just Trump not just Pelosi or Shcummer. THEY ALL get credit for this idiotic madness.

 

[sangha]

Why does he have to OFFER something, What has the Dems asked for? I have never heard in the last 3 weeks Schummer or Pelosi say I want DACA amnesty or immigration reform for the WALL it was just "NO" for the wall.

How do you offer something when they dont even ask or state what they want? When you go to the negotiation table BOTH sides USUALLY bring's demands RIGHT?

Trump went into the meeting yesterday and ASKED Pelosi will you fund my wall she said NO. NOW things would be different if she said, I WILL if you agree to.....X.... BUT she and schummer as of yet NOT stated that once from my understanding? get off your high horse and dont talk condescending.

No, there is no requirement for someone to make a demand to counter anothers unreasonable demand. This is particularly true when the other person has previously agreed to that demand, and then reneged on it. Trump is demanding something and offering nothing in return. If you walked into a store and demanded that they give you stuff for nothing, you would be thrown out of the store...if you are lucky.

In addition, it is not politically feasible or advantageous for the dems to ask for anything in return. For one thing, they have Trump cornered. Trump dug himself into this hole, so why should they throw him a shovel? Furthermore, as soon as they ask for something, the repubs will turn around and claim that the dems are shutting down the govt over DACA,

 

[iguanaman]

Again moving the goal post. While I can fairly accept "thats how the govt. works" ..... This is a terrible game for the dumbest of justifications.

$1.6billion is NOT going to do anything, SECONDLY it was stated by Schummer and Pelosi, we will give $1.6billion for security BUT not to be used for the wall.

Next is $5.6 billion concession from $25billion just 9 months ago? So he cut his budget request by 4/5ths of what he was asking for and they still said NO, and the original specifically forbid the money to used for the wall HOW is that good faith negotiation? There is NO give or take..... NONE..

Lastly, he didnt suddenly decided $5.6, HE ALWAYS WANTED $25billion but in "negotiations" cut it back to $5.6 billion???? Sounds like a negotiated offer to me?

LOL It was Trump and House Republicans that backed out of the deal that included the $25 billion. That deal included things Democrats wanted and once that was rejected, Trump was back to zero. That's how it works. I have shown you that even among Congressional Republicans the wall only had 25% support. That is why it failed and will continue fail now the the Dems took the House. Stick a fork in it already.

 

[sangha]

Context... Context Context.


TRUMP did make a deal in February, Freedom Caucus did NOT approve the 1.8million DACA Amnesty because they did NOT want to OFFER the Amnesty PERIOD. Had nothing to do with TRUMPS wall.

Secondly. The Republicans put in Immigration reform to limit Nucleus family sponsorship and other similar strict enforcement to immigration that DEMS did NOT want. Had NOTHING to do with the wall.

They ALL could have negotiated it out one for one, or one for the other. BUT they keep convoluting the whole damn thing period.


SO again REAL questions.

The Wall has nothing to do with the Gov. shutdown I CAN AGREE...... So IF in fact we concede RE OPEN the government WILL Pelosi & Schummer in GOOD FAITH negotiate with Trump 1 for one about the wall? Seriously. Like I said, OK Trump we will give you the wall if you give us DACA Amnesty? seriously? CAN you honestly say the would DO that? THEY WILL NOT, The already have said NO now, Why would the Say YES when the Government is open? More so now they have Majority in the HOUSE. What good will that do.

THERE IS ZERO Good Faith negotiation. If you cant see that, that I will "concede" that we will never see at least eye to eye.

The dems, as well as a good number of repubs, are in favor of immigration reform, but Trump and the Freedom Caucus objected.

 

[Jack Hays]

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• • 'DACA for the wall' deal gains steam
    
    
  
  

 

[Exactice]

No, there is no requirement for someone to make a demand to counter anothers unreasonable demand. This is particularly true when the other person has previously agreed to that demand, and then reneged on it. Trump is demanding something and offering nothing in return. If you walked into a store and demanded that they give you stuff for nothing, you would be thrown out of the store...if you are lucky.

In addition, it is not politically feasible or advantageous for the dems to ask for anything in return. For one thing, they have Trump cornered. Trump dug himself into this hole, so why should they throw him a shovel? Furthermore, as soon as they ask for something, the repubs will turn around and claim that the dems are shutting down the govt over DACA,

Actually Fair point........ Honestly the more and more I have discussion with the opposition I can reason a little more that a $25billion Wall could be considered "unreasonable"

Now can I make some side points.

1) ROI on a wall. IT COULD be justified, may take years, but if it does limit and make a dent in the crossings then it does make its money back
2) Trump did in fact RUN on it. He is committed to it. NOTHING WRONG or Illegal about PUSHING a political agenda that he promised the people that DID vote for him?
3) Unreasonable Demand? Relative to interpretation. From $25 Billion to $5.6 Lets face it Trump may not make it past 2020 more so 2024 so with that even if we GOT $25 billion do you think he could complete the wall by 2020 or 2024 more so by that time 9th Circuit or another President my withdraw the build anyway?
4) Do you agree that our Immigration SYSTEM has MAJOR issues as whole, NOT just a damn wall? PER my INITIAL POST IN THIS thread..... I would LOVE to see trump dump the Wall bid and drop a Huge Immigration Reform package instead? With the REAL issue address. 70% amnesty claims denied as it is being used as a should claim rather than legitimate, Visa violators, catch and release from prior administrations. MULTIPLE violations of illegal entry yet they are still here...... WE should address THOSE issue and dump the wall bid.

Anyways..... It might be unrealistic..... I really could. But like I mentioned above, Say the just gave Trump the $5.6 bill to shut him up as that would make it to 2020 and roll the dice. Even if he made it to 2024 highly doubt the Wall would be anywhere near complete and WE still have NOT solved the issues that are inherent. people coming and staying illegally?

 

[Exactice]

The dems, as well as a good number of repubs, are in favor of immigration reform, but Trump and the Freedom Caucus objected.

Agreed on Dems & Repubs in favor of immigration reform

Can I make an observation. It was NOT trump and the Freedom Caucus though?

Freedom Caucus rejected the DACA Amnesty.

TRUMP introduced the DACA Amnesty along with the 3 major VISA reforms (Merit based Visa, removal of Lottery and Family sponsorship limitations) Democrats rejected this immigration reform.


can I clarify that AMNESTY is NOT immigration reform. it is "AMNESTY".......

 

[sangha]

Sorry Sangha, I had to bait you as I knew you would flip it...... I caption to "Talking point" as the ploy to indicate that no matter what side, Someone shut it down.


FACT of the MATTER TRUMP & Schummer BOTH shut it down to some extent. But context as I typed it prior shows the confusion of what was proposed in Both the Current Bill and the past February deal.


Feb's Deal was , $25bill + Wall + immigration reform for 1.8mill Daca Amnesty.

Repubs say NO to the Amensty.
Dems said no to the Immigration reform (no Visa lottery and merit based visa's)


Current bill was $1.6billion to border Security NOTHING for a wall

Trump Said NO, I want $5.6bill FOR the wall.... Period. Pelosi said no and now we are where we are...

ITS ALL Their FAULTS not just Trump not just Pelosi or Shcummer. THEY ALL get credit for this idiotic madness.

I think you are a bit confused or maybe it is me. There was a govt shutdown that lasted just a few days that was caused by the Senate dems refusing to vote for a CR that did not protect Dreamers. I think it is fair to say the blame for that belongs to Schumer.

The deal for limiting chain and lottery immigration was not a deal. It was never agreed to by either side. That was a debate over an immigration reform bill and negotiations for that broke down.

But that was then. Right now, there are bills that passed the House. According to the process set out in the Constitution, the Senate should vote on it, or come up with their own bills to fund the govt. Unfortunately, McConnell has decided to block those bills and has not offered any alternative bills.

It is clear that, as of this moment in time, that the blame for the continued shutdown lies with McConnell

 

[akyron]

In all fairness.... in complete foresight....I am waiting for the GREAT switch ah roo...

I am praying this will happen because this would be the greatest fake out yet.

Trump says SCREW the wall..... How about some hardline Immigration fixes, I dump the wall in exchange

1) Zero Tolerance @ the Border, meaning dont come through a legal port of entry, you turn right around
2) Zero Tolerance on VISA violators, you overstay or violate a VISA bye bye, Bar for X years
3) Nucleus family reform meaning sponsorship through direct family ties no extended family
4) VISA Through Merits H1B etc (Merits to include marriage and fiance)

I Would love to see trump just dump the wall and drop a huge Immigration reform package on them. I GUARANTEE we would see straight through Pelosi and Shcummer that it has NOTHING to do with the actual politics and policies ITS just Trump.

Birth right, Fix that. MAJOR Penalties on Illegal Hiring practices. ZERO tolerance deportation ETC the WHOLE immigration system not just a wall. Needs a fix. If security is what they really want But not a wall.

Common TRUMP Call their BLUFF, drop the wall but a HUGE immigration reform package, I 100% guarantee they will balk it as well and we will see their BS.......

Do not forget felony to hire non citizen.

 

[Exactice]

LOL It was Trump and House Republicans that backed out of the deal that included the $25 billion. That deal included things Democrats wanted and once that was rejected, Trump was back to zero. That's how it works. I have shown you that even among Congressional Republicans the wall only had 25% support. That is why it failed and will continue fail now the the Dems took the House. Stick a fork in it already.

Thats fine.... I need to read where only 25% congressional republicans supported the wall but the numbers are meaningless.

The point of the matter is this.

The Funding is for the remain 25-30% of the government (in all fairness the last shut down was for the BULK so it sure was more substantial)

Trump wants $5.6billion for a wall, Nothing else inside of the proposal for a one for one as the budge is SET for teh 25-30% government. He just wants $5.6 billion for a wall. If the Dems wanted something they could just say lets negotiate for the $5.6 wall. But they are NOT even doing that? Then the question does remain..... IS there something the DEMS want for the $5.6 or the dems JUST dont want to give him the wall period?

Is pretty simple...I am assuming the DEMS do NOT want to give him a wall. NO negotiation no one for one, NO NOTHING... just no wall . I got it.

 

[sangha]

Actually Fair point........ Honestly the more and more I have discussion with the opposition I can reason a little more that a $25billion Wall could be considered "unreasonable"

Now can I make some side points.

1) ROI on a wall. IT COULD be justified, may take years, but if it does limit and make a dent in the crossings then it does make its money back
2) Trump did in fact RUN on it. He is committed to it. NOTHING WRONG or Illegal about PUSHING a political agenda that he promised the people that DID vote for him?
3) Unreasonable Demand? Relative to interpretation. From $25 Billion to $5.6 Lets face it Trump may not make it past 2020 more so 2024 so with that even if we GOT $25 billion do you think he could complete the wall by 2020 or 2024 more so by that time 9th Circuit or another President my withdraw the build anyway?
4) Do you agree that our Immigration SYSTEM has MAJOR issues as whole, NOT just a damn wall? PER my INITIAL POST IN THIS thread..... I would LOVE to see trump dump the Wall bid and drop a Huge Immigration Reform package instead? With the REAL issue address. 70% amnesty claims denied as it is being used as a should claim rather than legitimate, Visa violators, catch and release from prior administrations. MULTIPLE violations of illegal entry yet they are still here...... WE should address THOSE issue and dump the wall bid.

Anyways..... It might be unrealistic..... I really could. But like I mentioned above, Say the just gave Trump the $5.6 bill to shut him up as that would make it to 2020 and roll the dice. Even if he made it to 2024 highly doubt the Wall would be anywhere near complete and WE still have NOT solved the issues that are inherent. people coming and staying illegally?

1) You see immigrants as a problem. I do not. I think we need more immigration

2) I do not think it is unreasonable for Trump to stick to his campaign pledges, but he promised a wall that Mexico would pay for.

3) You see Trump as going from $25B to $5B. I see him as going from $0 to $25B to $5B. He is now $5B above his original ask and offering nothing in return

4) Yes, I see our immigration system as being one fraught with problems. The biggest one is that we do not allow enough people to immigrate and become citizens. After all, if we gave all those illegal immigrants citizenship, then we would not have any illegal immigrants. They would all be legal, and if I am not mistaken, neither the dems nor the repubs have a problem with legal immigrants :lol:

 

[JasperL]

If the democrats truly agree to do that, he should agree to it, wait a month, then declare an emergency and build the wall anyway.

That's of course why 'negotiating' with Trump is a non-starter, and/or why he cannot make a deal. He's a liar whose word means nothing, and you're effectively cheering the guy, hoping he'll make a deal then break it a month later. Those are some real libertarian values right there, not to mention the free movement of capital but not of labor disconnect.

If there's a better picture of the rot on the right wing, I don't know what it might be.

BTW, the Republicans had a chance to 'agree to all that' and passed. When will this sink in with you guys, that the GOP don't actually give a flying **** about illegal immigration except as a campaign slogan and something to hang on Democrats.

 

[sangha]

Agreed on Dems & Repubs in favor of immigration reform

Can I make an observation. It was NOT trump and the Freedom Caucus though?

Freedom Caucus rejected the DACA Amnesty.

TRUMP introduced the DACA Amnesty along with the 3 major VISA reforms (Merit based Visa, removal of Lottery and Family sponsorship limitations) Democrats rejected this immigration reform.


can I clarify that AMNESTY is NOT immigration reform. it is "AMNESTY".......

I am not sure, but I think you have the chronology wrong. Trump agreed for DACA in exchange for the wall. Then the Freedom Caucus intervened, and then Trump demanded those other things, which blew up the deal

wrt Amnesty:

Any immigration system must include some sort of path to citizenship. Amnesty is a word that is meant to poison the water.

 

[Phys251]

Well we mist be doing something right because apprehensions are at a 40 year low on the southern border. I suspect the Dems want to build on that success and not blindly throw money at Trump so he will release the hostages. That never seems to work out well. They just take more hostages when they run out of free money.

Maybe tRump's ultimate goal is to make the United States such a ****ty place for the bottom 90% of Americans that nobody in their right mind would ever want to come here? /s

 

[Exactice]

I think you are a bit confused or maybe it is me. There was a govt shutdown that lasted just a few days that was caused by the Senate dems refusing to vote for a CR that did not protect Dreamers. I think it is fair to say the blame for that belongs to Schumer.

The deal for limiting chain and lottery immigration was not a deal. It was never agreed to by either side. That was a debate over an immigration reform bill and negotiations for that broke down.

But that was then. Right now, there are bills that passed the House. According to the process set out in the Constitution, the Senate should vote on it, or come up with their own bills to fund the govt. Unfortunately, McConnell has decided to block those bills and has not offered any alternative bills.

It is clear that, as of this moment in time, that the blame for the continued shutdown lies with McConnell

Fair enough Thanks Sangha for at least debating with me!

As for chain migration and lottery YES, it was not agreed by Majority of both house and BOTH parties as that was SOMETHING put in by Trump. So I will acknowledge that to be fair!

With that.... You know what if for ONE Second seriously.... one second you would NOT say its a Trump Shut down, I would shake your hand and agree. McConnell is actually to blame as you are right he did NOT want to take the vote. WHILE possible from direction of Trump. The right thing to do is actually fund the Government and then Negotiate the Wall. BUT again to be fair I HIGHLY doubt there is ANYTHING at ALL the dems are willing to "negotiate" with Trump over the wall. Its principle. not laws, policies or the people im afraid.

HEY Sangha! I am really pleased to know we can see eye to on on some points! Thank you for the spirited discussion! truly!

 

[sangha]

Fair enough Thanks Sangha for at least debating with me!

As for chain migration and lottery YES, it was not agreed by Majority of both house and BOTH parties as that was SOMETHING put in by Trump. So I will acknowledge that to be fair!

With that.... You know what if for ONE Second seriously.... one second you would NOT say its a Trump Shut down, I would shake your hand and agree. McConnell is actually to blame as you are right he did NOT want to take the vote. WHILE possible from direction of Trump. The right thing to do is actually fund the Government and then Negotiate the Wall. BUT again to be fair I HIGHLY doubt there is ANYTHING at ALL the dems are willing to "negotiate" with Trump over the wall. Its principle. not laws, policies or the people im afraid.

HEY Sangha! I am really pleased to know we can see eye to on on some points! Thank you for the spirited discussion! truly!

While I believe it is obvious that McConnell is blocking these bills in order to protect Trump, McConnell is the one who is deciding to protect Trump so at this point in time, it is on McConnell.

 

[Atomic Kid]

I am not sure, but I think you have the chronology wrong. Trump agreed for DACA in exchange for the wall. Then the Freedom Caucus intervened, and then Trump demanded those other things, which blew up the deal

wrt Amnesty:

Any immigration system must include some sort of path to citizenship. Amnesty is a word that is meant to poison the water.

Problem is that Trump is still catering to the Freedom Caucus.

 

[slick]

The problem is that Trump is just after his wall and nothing else. What you are doing is wishing that Trump was adult enough to have a bigger plan on immigration, but the wall is all that he has.

Walls work. First the wall then immigration reform. He's not going to be tricked like Reagan was by the democrats in the 80's.

I assume you're a big Obama devotee. Didn't Obama walk out of a meeting with Eric Cantor won of the top
Republicans at the time about similar unsolved problems

 

[marke]

Of course he does, he is the prototype and the morons who support him think that he invented everything since sliced bread.

To some Trump may have invented sliced bread, which is pretty stupid. However, it is not as stupid as those who have called Obama "My Lord and Savior."