Trump voters: is America great again, yet?

[exoplanet]

If by "great" you mean closer to utopia where some slave class tends to our needs in while ensconced in our "safe places," NO!

If by "great" you mean in a position to bend the arc of history to "our way" then the answer is a resounding YES!

Great would be how you define it in this case. Please feel free to explain what "our way" is and how America is different now than a year or so ago.

 

[exoplanet]

What I find interesting is when a Republican is president, most republicans thinks the country is moving in the right direction, most democrats think it is moving in the wrong direction. Just the opposite is true when a democrat is president, democrats think the country is headed in the right direction, republicans the wrong direction. Politics, ideology, party identification seems to determine for them, the partisans which way this country is headed.

This is expected. What is unusual to me is the right choosing to say that America isn't a great country. There is a big difference between that and heading the wrong direction.

 

[Perotista]

This is expected. What is unusual to me is the right choosing to say that America isn't a great country. There is a big difference between that and heading the wrong direction.

Trump's slogan of making America Great Again I guess could be taken as stating America wasn't great. At least under Obama. I don't think that Republicans looked upon the country as not being a great country as a whole. I think they mean the politics, agenda sucked under Obama and now that they have Trump, it is back to the politics and political ideology they like leading the country.

I suppose it is normal for folks of the opposite party to think the president of the other party is ruining America. Personally, I think our politics have become way to partisan, way too extreme for the good of the country be they left or right. Most Americans are caught somewhere in the middle.

I liked our politics, our major parties when both parties had their conservative and liberal wings. When each party didn't look at the other party as the reincarnation of evil. Those days are long gone.

 

[polgara]

Trump's slogan of making America Great Again I guess could be taken as stating America wasn't great. At least under Obama. I don't think that Republicans looked upon the country as not being a great country as a whole. I think they mean the politics, agenda sucked under Obama and now that they have Trump, it is back to the politics and political ideology they like leading the country.

I suppose it is normal for folks of the opposite party to think the president of the other party is ruining America. Personally, I think our politics have become way to partisan, way too extreme for the good of the country be they left or right. Most Americans are caught somewhere in the middle.

I liked our politics, our major parties when both parties had their conservative and liberal wings. When each party didn't look at the other party as the reincarnation of evil. Those days are long gone.

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Well said! :thumbs: It's great that many of us remember the days when the leaders of both parties *gasp* actually worked together to get things done in DC! It's probably hard for younger voters to imagine, and they may not believe it, but Reagan and Tip O'neill, using them as examples, actually liked and respected each other, and remembered that even though they represented different ideologies, they did realize that it was the people of this country that they worked for - aka those everyday people all across the country that were made responsible for paying for everything, including their salaries!!!

It's sad to see how things have changed over the years, and what our country has changed into as a result, where voters riot and boycott a speaker they don't agree with! WTH happened, and how did we ever get to "it's my way or the highway?" :bs :thumbdown

 

[Perotista]

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Well said! :thumbs: It's great that many of us remember the days when the leaders of both parties *gasp* actually worked together to get things done in DC! It's probably hard for younger voters to imagine, and they may not believe it, but Reagan and Tip O'neill, using them as examples, actually liked and respected each other, and remembered that even though they represented different ideologies, they did realize that it was the people of this country that they worked for - aka those everyday people all across the country that were made responsible for paying for everything, including their salaries!!!

It's sad to see how things have changed over the years, and what our country has changed into as a result, where voters riot and boycott a speaker they don't agree with! WTH happened, and how did we ever get to "it's my way or the highway?" :bs :thumbdown

Yes, those were the days. Politics has taken a turn towards a nasty party first over country attitude. If Reagan, the conservative cowboy actor turned governor and then president could work together with Tip O'Neal, the ultimate Massachusetts liberal for the betterment of the country, why not now? WTH did happen?

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but the days of cable news 24/7 hadn't happened yet or was in its infancy. There was all these night time political partisan propaganda talk shows every night on cable. Way too many people actually think their extreme propaganda is honest, actual, gospel news. Hate and negative personal attacks has replace substantial debate on the issues. Now instead of debate on the merits of legislation, we get the other side is out to kill your grandmother or something akin to that.

I don't think there is any going back to substantial debate on the issues either. We get deplorables and crooked Hillary. That's the bed our two major parties have made.

 

[polgara]

Yes, those were the days. Politics has taken a turn towards a nasty party first over country attitude. If Reagan, the conservative cowboy actor turned governor and then president could work together with Tip O'Neal, the ultimate Massachusetts liberal for the betterment of the country, why not now? WTH did happen?

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but the days of cable news 24/7 hadn't happened yet or was in its infancy. There was all these night time political partisan propaganda talk shows every night on cable. Way too many people actually think their extreme propaganda is honest, actual, gospel news. Hate and negative personal attacks has replace substantial debate on the issues. Now instead of debate on the merits of legislation, we get the other side is out to kill your grandmother or something akin to that.

I don't think there is any going back to substantial debate on the issues either. We get deplorables and crooked Hillary. That's the bed our two major parties have made.

Sad but true! Those that seem to want to turn our Country into something that it has never been is definitely puzzling! If those folks aren't happy now, I wonder how they're going to like living in what they imagine will be utopia in the future? It won't be for them, IMO, but at least things will be quieter when they disappear because they aren't permitted to have an opinion that differs from what is allowed by whoever is in charge of "acceptable speech?" 1984 comes to mind.....

 

[Nickyjo]

This in responses to the Lambda List from the Major. Let me get this straight... You think that all of these are good things, right? Some are good, some no doubt are neutral as Hillary might have done the same, and some are "deplorable," to coin a phrase.

Still, Trump will be able to make a good case for himself on Tuesday. The negatives on the tax deal are still to come, the swamp remains un-drained and has more gators, but he will get credit for the accelerating economy.

 

[Perotista]

Sad but true! Those that seem to want to turn our Country into something that it has never been is definitely puzzling! If those folks aren't happy now, I wonder how they're going to like living in what they imagine will be utopia in the future? It won't be for them, IMO, but at least things will be quieter when they disappear because they aren't permitted to have an opinion that differs from what is allowed by whoever is in charge of "acceptable speech?" 1984 comes to mind.....

Good book. In a way I always have view what is called Political Correct Speech as the beginning of controlled or acceptable speech. In a way with the exodus of the more moderate folks from our two major parties, that has turned both major parties over to their hard core ideological factions. That leaves no political home for middle America. Think a bit different from what those left in both major parties, they don't want you. There is no room in the two major parties for folks who are willing to work together and with the other side to keep things moving forward. It is all or nothing or as you stated, my way or the highway.

I think we are beginning to see the end of free speech. One side wants to shut down Fox and the other side CNN and MSNBC. This is perilous times. A time where differing political opinions and ideology can't be tolerated. This is turning into a very slippery slope.

 

[Cassandra]

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Well said! :thumbs: It's great that many of us remember the days when the leaders of both parties *gasp* actually worked together to get things done in DC! It's probably hard for younger voters to imagine, and they may not believe it, but Reagan and Tip O'neill, using them as examples, actually liked and respected each other, and remembered that even though they represented different ideologies, they did realize that it was the people of this country that they worked for - aka those everyday people all across the country that were made responsible for paying for everything, including their salaries!!!

It's sad to see how things have changed over the years, and what our country has changed into as a result, where voters riot and boycott a speaker they don't agree with! WTH happened, and how did we ever get to "it's my way or the highway?" :bs :thumbdown

I am also old enough to remember when people were generally civil. What do you think happened? Is the rise of F.B. and party affiliated media enough to explain all the nastiness?

 

[Cassandra]

Schumer's shutdown reveals: Democrats will destroy America just to spite Trump

Quote = "Democrats are committed to stopping Trump and his "America first" agenda, whatever the cost to the American people. Like the apocryphal commander in the Vietnam War, they will destroy the village to save it."


https://www.google.com/amp/thehill....ocrats-will-destroy-america-just-to-spite?amp





Major Lambda

Well no. The article you linked is by Tommy Hicks a private equity investor and head of Trump's "America First counsel" or some such thing. A very dishonest op ed.

An honest op ed writer would concede that the economy was "booming" under Obama. More jobs were created ea year under his presidency than under Trump. It is easy enough to juice the economy with tax cuts. We know how that worked out under Bush. but all things considered, the country needs infrastructure investments far more than it need the wealthiest 1% (like Tommy Hicks) becoming even wealthier.

What puzzles me is why Trump supporters still love him in spite of all the things he turned his back on. He is not the populist he made himself out to be.

He disparaged Hillary's ties to Wall St. billionaires - then he invited a pile of them to work in his administration.

He said he had a great health care plan- turned out he had no clue how to replace A.C.A.

He claimed he wanted to get the U.S. out of foreign entanglements. Now, he has given the military free reign to expand foreign conflicts.

He said he wanted a tax cut for the middle class but gave a big gift to the 1% and corporations, instead.

He said he would not touch Soc. Sec or medicare. Now he demures and Paul Ryan plans to cut social programs. There is nothing populist about this.

The only important issue on which he has kept faith with his supporters has been immigration so far as I can see.


https://www.salon.com/2017/12/07/paul-ryan-aims-for-medicare-medicaid-social-security-cuts-in-2018/

 

[Casca XV]

To conservatives, America wasn't great when Obama was in office.

Just in decline under Obama. Fortunately for America, Bath House Berry was too weak and stupid a man and leader to achieve his goals.

 

[Soopairik]

Just in decline under Obama. Fortunately for America, Bath House Berry was too weak and stupid a man and leader to achieve his goals.

He had a Republican Congress.

 

[Fenton Lum]

#ButtHillary!

#emails n leftists n soros, oh my!

Even though Trump was elected, my portfolio has continued to grow bigly! (been doing that since a little mishap back in '08, but hey.)

The '08 thing was nothing a little socialism for the aristocracy couldn't smooth over. For a while, until the next time predatory capitalism collapses and requires propping up with socialism.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Just in decline under Obama. Fortunately for America, Bath House Berry was too weak and stupid a man and leader to achieve his goals.

That's what they say about this buffoon, imagine if he were intelligent and capable.

 

[Casca XV]

That's what they say about this buffoon, imagine if he were intelligent and capable.

Except by every objective measure America today is getting better. The only thing in decline is Leftism.

Over the 8 years of obama at best we were stagnant. The minor gains had nothing to do with the Weasel in Chief.

 

[wellwisher]

The Golden Generation was connected to the World War II generation. The current generation is not even bronze, never mind silver or gold. The Gold Generation appeared when the family unit was strong, religion was an important part of the country, people were proud to be Americans, and Americans stood for righteousness, everywhere. They were willing to stand up to wrong and evil, even if this required personal sacrifice. It was not about me, but about we the people. The world trusted American leadership during the golden generation. That trust started to decline, thereafter.

Trump is leading the country back to the gold, by example. From the beginning he took on the swamp, which is a self serving and evil power hungry cancer. He has made provisions to protect religious liberties and have also made provisions to promote the family unit. His economic plans helped the blacks and latinos achieve the lowest unemployments rate ever; we the people. It is not about dividing the country for one political group, as the Democrats want it. We are heading back to the foundation for a new golden generation. We first need to purge of the body of the country from its various left wing cancers. They add lead to gold; cheat.

 

[yankintx]

I have already seen the show several times, but sometimes watching a repeat can still be entertaining. opcorn:

Agreed, this time I will sit back and keep my mouth shut, watch the Fire Works.

 

[beancounter]

WTH happened, and how did we ever get to "it's my way or the highway?" :bs :thumbdown

It all started with Gingrich.

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-newt-gingrich-crippled-congress/

 

[calamity]

America is getting worse..... we cant do conversation with people who dont agree with us anymore, we cant work together any more, we tend to lack honesty and other morals, we tend to be stupid now, we tend to be lazy now, we rarely care about quality anymore it's all cheap cheap cheap cheap.....and we just dont care about how badly we suck.....so we get worse.

Yes, worse. But, certainly not all of it is Trump's fault.

We have a younger generation who think they know more than people with 40 years of experience, simply because they took a few classes on the subject.

We have lost all sense of national cohesion and identity. If you ask me, what binds us now is McDonalds and WalMart. We don't gather for picnics at parks (nowadays if you see a group having a picnic, they are more than likely foreign born) or hang out at the softball fields anymore, we all follow different versions of "news"--we don't even read newspapers, yet alone have everyone in town reading the same one. In summary: We've Balkinized.

We have far too many parents failing to raise responsible children. Many of those parents were not raised properly themselves. The cycle spirals from there.

Drugs seem to be in everyone's medicine cabinet or on their kitchen counter. Sleeping pills, pain pills, boner pills, etc etc etc.

Trades are looked down upon. Everyone wants a desk job, and then they want to loaf at those--show up whenever, fiddle fart around with personal stuff instead of doing work, plan for lunch an hour before lunchtime...the list goes on.

Very few people love their neighbor anymore. Rather, they covet what he has and if they can't get it, bitch or try to enact laws to strip them of it.

I can go on, but why bother.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Yes, worse. But, certainly not all of it is Trump's fault.

We have a younger generation who think they know more than people with 40 years of experience, simply because they took a few classes on the subject.

We have lost all sense of national cohesion and identity. If you ask me, what binds us now is McDonalds and WalMart. We don't gather for picnics at parks (nowadays if you see a group having a picnic, they are more than likely foreign born) or hang out at the softball fields anymore, we all follow different versions of "news"--we don't even read newspapers, yet alone have everyone in town reading the same one. In summary: We've Balkinized.

We have far too many parents failing to raise responsible children. Many of those parents were not raised properly themselves. The cycle spirals from there.

Drugs seem to be in everyone's medicine cabinet or on their kitchen counter. Sleeping pills, pain pills, boner pills, etc etc etc.

Trades are looked down upon. Everyone wants a desk job, and then they want to loaf at those--show up whenever, fiddle fart around with personal stuff instead of doing work, plan for lunch an hour before lunchtime...the list goes on.

Very few people love their neighbor anymore. Rather, they covet what he has and if they can't get it, bitch or try to enact laws to strip them of it.

I can go on, but why bother.

YOWZA

The first step in getting better is understanding that we have a problem, too bad America is no where nears..... more than a year after Trump shocked the world with his win very very few of us have buckled down to understand what his coming means about where we are.

We resist reality with all of our might most of us.

BIG PAIN is the only fix for that.

So BIG PAIN we shall have.







YOWZA

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Well no. The article you linked is by Tommy Hicks a private equity investor and head of Trump's "America First counsel" or some such thing. A very dishonest op ed.

An honest op ed writer would concede that the economy was "booming" under Obama. More jobs were created ea year under his presidency than under Trump. It is easy enough to juice the economy with tax cuts. We know how that worked out under Bush. but all things considered, the country needs infrastructure investments far more than it need the wealthiest 1% (like Tommy Hicks) becoming even wealthier.

What puzzles me is why Trump supporters still love him in spite of all the things he turned his back on. He is not the populist he made himself out to be.

He disparaged Hillary's ties to Wall St. billionaires - then he invited a pile of them to work in his administration.

He said he had a great health care plan- turned out he had no clue how to replace A.C.A.

He claimed he wanted to get the U.S. out of foreign entanglements. Now, he has given the military free reign to expand foreign conflicts.

He said he wanted a tax cut for the middle class but gave a big gift to the 1% and corporations, instead.

He said he would not touch Soc. Sec or medicare. Now he demures and Paul Ryan plans to cut social programs. There is nothing populist about this.

The only important issue on which he has kept faith with his supporters has been immigration so far as I can see.


https://www.salon.com/2017/12/07/paul-ryan-aims-for-medicare-medicaid-social-security-cuts-in-2018/

He's giving the evangelicals who voted for him a lot. But they sold their souls and all credibility for what he's giving them. I wonder when some of them will start to question the price they paid?

 

[calamity]

YOWZA

The first step in getting better is understanding that we have a problem, too bad America is no where nears..... more than a year after Trump shocked the world with his win very very few of us have buckled down to understand what his coming means about where we are.

We resist reality with all of our might most of us.

BIG PAIN is the only fix for that.

So BIG PAIN we shall have.







YOWZA

It's par for the course. Empires crumble--new powers percolate to the top as the old ones get flushed. I imagine that I will be long gone before the system collapses, but that we will reach our demise I have no doubt.

The American identity: an overriding theme at least 75% of us can immediately point to; has disappeared. We don't really have a unifying dream anymore. Marriage, family, career, homeownership, community....all are becoming archaic remnants of the past. Old school quaint memories that today's youth scoff at. Do any of us honestly believe anyone in the Now generation would sit in a fox hole, while bombs exploded around them, willingly laying down their lives in a fight to the death to preserve the idea of America?

IMO, the only people still buying that ideal are new immigrants. And, we do all we can to make their lives miserable. So, in a way, Trump is driving a stake through the heart of the last refuge this country has left: its open invitation to dreaming immigrants.

 

[Hawkeye10]

It's par for the course. Empires crumble--new powers percolate to the top as the old ones get flushed. I imagine that I will be long gone before the system collapses, but that we will reach our demise I have no doubt.

The American identity: an overriding theme at least 75% of us can immediately point to; has disappeared. We don't really have a unifying dream anymore. Marriage, family, career, homeownership, community....all are becoming archaic remnants of the past. Old school quaint memories that today's youth scoff at. Do any of us honestly believe anyone in the Now generation would sit in a fox hole, while bombs exploded around them, willingly laying down their lives in a fight to the death to preserve the idea of America?

IMO, the only people still buying that ideal are new immigrants. And, we do all we can to make their lives miserable. So, in a way, Trump is driving a stake through the heart of the last refuge this country has left: its open invitation to dreaming immigrants.

So much so that they very often refuse to learn English*SARCASM*....no, they dont buy into America because there is no longer any America to buy into, just a collection of Tribes, often populated by ignorant and lazy people.

 

[calamity]

So much so that they very often refuse to learn English....no, they dont buy into America because there is no longer any America to buy into, just a collection of Tribes, often populated by ignorant and lazy people.

Asian and African immigrants are quick to learn English, if they don't know it already. Spanish speaking people would too, if we did not enable them to bypass that requirement with all the "Pulse dos para español," options.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Asian and African immigrants are quick to learn English, if they don't know it already. Spanish speaking people would too, if we did not enable them to bypass that requirement with all the "Pulse dos para español," options.

Well, you do have a couple of points there, Sir.....