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Trump torpedoes funding bill over border wall

Top Cat said:
It's as if we now live in the Twilight Zone. Up is down, in is out...
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The only thing that makes sense is that Trump does what Ann Coulter manipulates him into doing. What a *****.
 
danarhea said:
Translation: I want you to believe Republicans don't own all 3 branches of government. Don't let your eyes deceive you. What you see isn't real.
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So, they can just do whatever they want and the democrats can't impose in any way?
 
Oborosen said:
So, they can just do whatever they want and the democrats can't impose in any way?
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Actually, Democrats in the Senate CAN intervene. You can thank Mitch McConnell for that.
 
danarhea said:
Actually, Democrats in the Senate CAN intervene. You can thank Mitch McConnell for that.
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So you misstated on just how much power the republican party has, on purpose.
 
Democrats are the party of NO now

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
JacksinPA said:
https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/20/politics/donald-trump-shutdown-border-wall-funding/index.html

Washington (CNN)A holiday government shutdown appeared more likely on Thursday after President Donald Trump informed House Republicans he would refuse to accept a stop-gap measure -- already passed by the Senate -- that doesn't include funds for his long-promised border wall.

What was once a deal to avoid a Christmas partial shutdown was torpedoed Thursday by conservatives and Trump, who unleashed fury at another agreement that stops short of providing the $5 billion the President has demanded for the border.
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Government leadership by an infant. Probably based this decision on Fox & Friends this AM.
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He based his decision on a last minute visit from two house freedom caucus members, Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows. That's who torpedoed the funding agreement that McConnell and Ryan thought Trump would sign.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/20/politics/donald-trump-shutdown-border-wall-funding/index.html

Washington (CNN)A holiday government shutdown appeared more likely on Thursday after President Donald Trump informed House Republicans he would refuse to accept a stop-gap measure -- already passed by the Senate -- that doesn't include funds for his long-promised border wall.

What was once a deal to avoid a Christmas partial shutdown was torpedoed Thursday by conservatives and Trump, who unleashed fury at another agreement that stops short of providing the $5 billion the President has demanded for the border.
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Government leadership by an infant. Probably based this decision on Fox & Friends this AM.
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It just seems like he wanted to shut the government down... :2razz:
 
Lutherf said:
"Keep our borders open to all or we're going to blame you for shutting down the government!"

"No National Security!"

"Hey! This is voter suppression because those illegals are tomorrow's Democrats!"
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So what... you think with the boarder shut down, Mexicans are able to pour in and register to vote.... :2razz:
 
Oborosen said:
So you misstated on just how much power the republican party has, on purpose.
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Nice try. Not taking the bait. The GOP owns this one, lock, stock, and barrel. They had a deal already done, and your God, Trump, screwed the pooch on it. LOL.
 
danarhea said:
Nice try. Not taking the bait. The GOP owns this one, lock, stock, and barrel. They had a deal already done, and your God, Trump, screwed the pooch on it. LOL.
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So you're just going to not cop up to something that you were obviously doing and now, somehow. You stating that I hold some reverence for Trump, in a form that he most certainly doesn't possess. Is somehow supposed to dissuade from the fact that you were caught outright lying about something that you didn't have a full grasp of?

Either the democrats are willing to allow the republicans to what they want, or they aren't going to currently give them the time of day. Which is it?

Because honestly you've peeked my interest with this strange belief of yours already.
 
Oborosen said:
Leave Obama out of this.
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Nice try, Obama would never let someone like Coulter manipulate him.

Coulter might has well have snapped Trump on the nose and said "bad boy!"
 
year2late said:
Nice try, Obama would never let someone like Coulter manipulate him.

Coulter might has well have snapped Trump on the nose and said "bad boy!"
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After seeing him smile like a donut for nearly every dictator out there for almost eight years. Tends to make me think otherwise.

Besides that, I don't see him bending the knee to Coulter at all. Seeing as he's been trying to get this wall for a while now. The only thing I really find funny about all of this. Is that people believe it's all his fault for the wall not being built yet.
 
Oborosen said:
After seeing him smile like a donut for nearly every dictator out there for almost eight years. Tends to make me think otherwise.

Besides that, I don't see him bending the knee to Coulter at all. Seeing as he's been trying to get this wall for a while now. The only thing I really find funny about all of this. Is that people believe it's all his fault for the wall not being built yet.
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Well it becomes problematic when your strategy was to have Mexico pay for it and when they tell you to pound sand you have to scramble to find an alternate plan. The kicker is he looks to blame others for his miscalculation because plan A is a non starter. Now it's Democrats not caring about border security when the truth is they're not agreeing to his version of border security. If Trump were really the great negotiator he professes to be then getting Mexico to pay for it should be no problem, right?
 
ElChupacabra said:
Well it becomes problematic when your strategy was to have Mexico pay for it and when they tell you to pound sand you have to scramble to find an alternate plan. The kicker is he looks to blame others for his miscalculation because plan A is a non starter. Now it's Democrats not caring about border security when the truth is they're not agreeing to his version of border security. If Trump were really the great negotiator he professes to be then getting Mexico to pay for it should be no problem, right?
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His version of boarder security is nearly the exact as what Obama and Hillary were touting early in their careers and the democrats were all too willing to throw money at whatever they wanted. Where the democrats more than wiling to actually work with him on this and realize an issue where it exist, many of the issues this has caused wouldn't be present today.

But no, we have them trying to shoot down everything he wants to do and it's not out of some duty to their job, or some aspect of governmental operation. It's almost entirely out of spite, simply because they lost and then decided to plant their feet in the sand on some of the stupidest stances I've seen in a long, long time.
 
Oborosen said:
His version of boarder security is nearly the exact as what Obama and Hillary were touting early in their careers and the democrats were all too willing to throw money at whatever they wanted. Where the democrats more than wiling to actually work with him on this and realize an issue where it exist, many of the issues this has caused wouldn't be present today.

But no, we have them trying to shoot down everything he wants to do and it's not out of some duty to their job, or some aspect of governmental operation. It's almost entirely out of spite, simply because they lost and then decided to plant their feet in the sand on some of the stupidest stances I've seen in a long, long time.
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If you're referring to the Secure Fence Act then that's a very different proposition to what Trump has stated he wants along the southern border. Even that bill wasn't fully funded if I remember correctly because the projected costs of building it and maintaining it were really high. In this particular go around there's just this $25 billion price tag being thrown around for a wall that runs from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific coast with no mention of what the ancillary costs (buying back private land, technology, and staffing) are going to be, which isn't the best way to present a project of this scope.

The second aspect is Trump's negotiating style; he's abrasive and confrontational which works when you have all the leverage, but in this case he doesn't. I think this would have played out very differently if he took the time to work with people on the best way to secure the border and might have come up with a hybrid solution that makes more sense. There is without a doubt a political aspect to all of this, but Trump makes it all to easy to oppose when he uses threats and the rhetoric to which he so often resorts. The bottom line is they need the Democrats to pass something, and if he were really interested in making this a viable project that is built and maintained then he needs to work with people to do so. "My way or the highway" may have worked in the days when he was the star of his own show, but politics is a bit different.
 
ElChupacabra said:
If you're referring to the Secure Fence Act then that's a very different proposition to what Trump has stated he wants along the southern border. Even that bill wasn't fully funded if I remember correctly because the projected costs of building it and maintaining it were really high. In this particular go around there's just this $25 billion price tag being thrown around for a wall that runs from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific coast with no mention of what the ancillary costs (buying back private land, technology, and staffing) are going to be, which isn't the best way to present a project of this scope.

The second aspect is Trump's negotiating style; he's abrasive and confrontational which works when you have all the leverage, but in this case he doesn't. I think this would have played out very differently if he took the time to work with people on the best way to secure the border and might have come up with a hybrid solution that makes more sense. There is without a doubt a political aspect to all of this, but Trump makes it all to easy to oppose when he uses threats and the rhetoric to which he so often resorts. The bottom line is they need the Democrats to pass something, and if he were really interested in making this a viable project that is built and maintained then he needs to work with people to do so. "My way or the highway" may have worked in the days when he was the star of his own show, but politics is a bit different.
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You're talking about when the wall was first projected. Which is information that has since changed.

On the other hand, I would be willing to agree with you. If the Democrats hadn't demonstrated that they're not willing to make a deal with him in the least. Seeing as we've had so many detractors running their mouths around in the DNC since the election.

Apparently no one on their end, save for Pelosi. Was actually wiling to play nice in the end. Because we've seen Trump at least try more than once to make a deal with them. Because if he knows that if he tried to subvert the system to get his way, It would probably end up hurting his image like it did his predecessor.
 
Oborosen said:
You're talking about when the wall was first projected. Which is information that has since changed.

On the other hand, I would be willing to agree with you. If the Democrats hadn't demonstrated that they're not willing to make a deal with him in the least. Seeing as we've had so many detractors running their mouths around in the DNC since the election.

Apparently no one on their end, save for Pelosi. Was actually wiling to play nice in the end. Because we've seen Trump at least try more than once to make a deal with them. Because if he knows that if he tried to subvert the system to get his way, It would probably end up hurting his image like it did his predecessor.
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Well I think we need to define what "willing to make a deal" means. There was something in place that everyone had agreed to which provided $1.6 billion for border security, but when he met with the Freedom Caucus it all went south and he took his ball and went home. The message I get from the administration is the only viable deal is it getting what it wants. Surely for talented negotiators finding something that works isn't an impossible task, but when you throw in strong arm tactics and rhetoric it just makes it easier for people to hunker down.

I also find it interesting that the alternate payment possibilities touted by the administration have not been discussed either (funding through USMCA). All of this stinks of the administration winging it poorly, and one of the main reasons I don't trust its ability to execute a project of this scope successfully.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Well I think we need to define what "willing to make a deal" means. There was something in place that everyone had agreed to which provided $1.6 billion for border security, but when he met with the Freedom Caucus it all went south and he took his ball and went home. The message I get from the administration is the only viable deal is it getting what it wants. Surely for talented negotiators finding something that works isn't an impossible task, but when you throw in strong arm tactics and rhetoric it just makes it easier for people to hunker down.

I also find it interesting that the alternate payment possibilities touted by the administration have not been discussed either (funding through USMCA). All of this stinks of the administration winging it poorly, and one of the main reasons I don't trust its ability to execute a project of this scope successfully.
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Simply put, the wall needed more and on the point of rhetoric. It really didn't help the democrats side when they kept either saying that putting up the wall was racist, or a waste of money. Which nearly all government projects boil down to that exact same prospect.

We don't know what all has been discussed about the wall actually. Only so much that you can find out from "anonymous" sources and all that and I'm not willing to trust any online board until something concrete has been revealed.
 
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