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Trump the Peacenik

LowDown

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As we come on three years now with no new wars, and with Trump struggling against the Washington, DC establishment to roll back the wars we are in, the people who were screeching and screaming that Trump was going to get us into war with the Norks or into WWIII look pretty silly now.

Those who actually looked into what Trump was saying back then and what Trump is like told ya. He said the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. He even went to the extreme of saying that Bush lied about the reason for it. He emphasized and bemoaned the burden these endless wars puts on ordinary military people.

And it is beginning to dawn on some people that there is a big difference between Trump's sometimes belligerent rhetoric and what he actually does.

I never saw Trump as a peacenik. But those who falsely claimed I did, and spent 2 years demanding apology each time Trump posted a belligerent tweet, have fallen silent as he enters the 3rd year of his presidency having started no new wars & trying to end 2 of those he inherited:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1077214937410400256
 

Mithrae

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As we come on three years now with no new wars...

As sad as it is that this is viewed as some kind of remarkable accomplishment, your incoherent grasp of time and/or the English language is even more worrying. Trump has been president for less than two years :roll:
 

TheParser

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Bush, Sr., invaded defenseless little Panama.
Bush, Jr., invaded Iraq (with disastrous results).
Obama overthrew that guy in Libya (with disastrous results).

Trump wants us to keep our nose out of other people's business.

I have a suspicion that some fair-minded liberals (there are a few!) admire President Trump's foreign policy decisions, but they are, understandably, terrified of letting their liberal friends know.
 

DaveFagan

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As we come on three years now with no new wars, and with Trump struggling against the Washington, DC establishment to roll back the wars we are in, the people who were screeching and screaming that Trump was going to get us into war with the Norks or into WWIII look pretty silly now.

Those who actually looked into what Trump was saying back then and what Trump is like told ya. He said the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. He even went to the extreme of saying that Bush lied about the reason for it. He emphasized and bemoaned the burden these endless wars puts on ordinary military people.

And it is beginning to dawn on some people that there is a big difference between Trump's sometimes belligerent rhetoric and what he actually does.



https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1077214937410400256

I'm not a fan of the Donald, but your point is correct. Not only that, but he attempted to smooth out the relationship with Russia. He was thwarted in that endeavor by a DeepState/MIC/IntelligenceAgencies/MSM coordinated effort to demonize those efforts. The Big Monies in the Military Offense/MIC budget find there way to elite deep pockets and wars, threats of wars, instabilities are needed to maintain the myth that they are needed. Local Infrastructure in the USA is needed, not war. I know the MIC generates a lot of jobs in the USA as it's the biggest industry in the USA, but the morality of the big picture is in question. Not really a question as WARS for business are wrong.
/
 

Kal'Stang

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As sad as it is that this is viewed as some kind of remarkable accomplishment, your incoherent grasp of time and/or the English language is even more worrying. Trump has been president for less than two years :roll:

Before chastising others on a grasp of the English language perhaps you should look in a mirror?

From the quote: "as he enters the 3rd year of his presidency"

What the OP said: "As we come on three years now with no new wars"

Neither one of those statements say that Trump has been President for 3 years. They both are talking about going into, or starting, his 3rd year as President. Which is correct. 2019 is the beginning of Trumps 3rd year as President.

But you are correct that this being viewed as a remarkable accomplishment is sad. Americans are getting awfully tired of the US being in a constant state of war.
 

Acadia

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As we come on three years now with no new wars, and with Trump struggling against the Washington, DC establishment to roll back the wars we are in, the people who were screeching and screaming that Trump was going to get us into war with the Norks or into WWIII look pretty silly now.

Those who actually looked into what Trump was saying back then and what Trump is like told ya. He said the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. He even went to the extreme of saying that Bush lied about the reason for it. He emphasized and bemoaned the burden these endless wars puts on ordinary military people.

And it is beginning to dawn on some people that there is a big difference between Trump's sometimes belligerent rhetoric and what he actually does.



https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1077214937410400256

Trump will get zero credit from the leftists for his peacenik efforts. Remember about this time last year, Hawaii had a false alarm about incoming missiles? The left lost their ever-loving minds blaming it on Trump and it had nothing to do with him!
NoKo hasn't launches a missile at us since Trump's been in office. All that catterwauling about his rhetoric to Kim and the cries of "OMG TRUMP'S GOT THE NUCLEAR CODES!", and I've never felt safer...
Hillary would have been a hawk's hawk, and flooded our country with refugees.

So, yes, I feel good about national security. Now, if only the Dems would stop acting like they don't give a crap about securing our borders and fund a wall system.
 

Airyaman

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I am not on "the left" and I do like the idea of getting out of useless conflicts in the ME and really, anywhere in the world.

That said, you can both simultaneously be for withdrawal and against the manner in which Trump is going about it.

No?

Some people act as if the latter does not matter.
 

jnug

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The thread seems like another blast from St Petersburg Russia to me.

Here is more Trump BS for the day: I have signed off on 115 miles of new wall at the Southern Border.
Ah-huh, nobody in his administration knows what the frigg he is talking about. Nobody can name a contract or a contractor or a location or a wall type or a budget appropriation (2006 Border fence fund or something else). In other words, more Donald BS.

and more: "Saudi has agreed to provide the necessary funding to rebuild Syria".

Really Donald. So a country that is struggling with its own finances has made an open ended commitment to rebuild its neighbor. Ah-huh. More Donald BS.
 

RaleBulgarian

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Those who actually looked into what Trump was saying back then and what Trump is like told ya. He said the invasion of Iraq was a mistake.
Trump was for the invasion before he was against.
Sept. 11, 2002: Howard Stern asks Trump if he supports invading Iraq. Trump answers hesitantly. “Yeah, I guess so. You know, I wish it was, I wish the first time it was done correctly.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/
Any idiot can be correct after the fact. Even an idiot like Trump.

Bush, Sr., invaded defenseless little Panama.
Bush, Jr., invaded Iraq (with disastrous results).
Obama overthrew that guy in Libya (with disastrous results).
It’s easy to understand why you’ve chosen The Parser as your screen name. Cutting out pertinent details and only focusing on one’s that appear to make your desired point.
1. HW invaded Panama to remove a corrupt dictator. Noriega had worked for the CIA for years, but after taking office that stopped and his continued illegal activities were no longer worth tolerating. Arguably not the best reason, but the truth.
2. W did lie about his justification for invading Iraq and there have surely been many terrible errors along the way with reconstruction and beginning a Democracy however, Iraqi’s are better off today than they were under Hussein’s reign.
3. Gadaffi was a ruthless dictator who should have been taken out long before Obama. Lybia’s turmoil after Gadaffi’s death was as much our allies fault as Obama’s because they failed to step up and help with the government’s reconstruction.
There are obviously many more details that can be brought up and debated, but bottom line, none of the above events is entirely one persons fault and parsing details does not change that fact.
 

Thoreau72

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I am not on "the left" and I do like the idea of getting out of useless conflicts in the ME and really, anywhere in the world.

That said, you can both simultaneously be for withdrawal and against the manner in which Trump is going about it.

No?

Some people act as if the latter does not matter.

Might you elaborate on what the correct way to bring the troops home from a mission that is military aggression under international law might be?
 

Airyaman

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Might you elaborate on what the correct way to bring the troops home from a mission that is military aggression under international law might be?

Working it out behind closed doors and announcing only what is necessary for public consumption. Not tweeting about while military leaders scramble to play catch up to a rash decision.
 

Thoreau72

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Working it out behind closed doors and announcing only what is necessary for public consumption. Not tweeting about while military leaders scramble to play catch up to a rash decision.

Because the public deserves to be kept in the dark?
 

Airyaman

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Because the public deserves to be kept in the dark?

Yes, in some instances. The public is not just you and I -- its the enemies as well.
 

TheParser

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Iraqi’s are better off today than they were under Hussein’s reign.

You, like me, are entitled to your opinion.

I think that many people (such as I) respectfully disagree with you.


Yes, Hussein was brutal.

But we should have let the Iraqis handle him.

The war was absolutely ghastly. Horrible.

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died.

Before the war, Iraqis lived a relatively good life: Women and even gays had more rights than in most Arab countries.

The war caused unspeakable suffering to the common people. Iraq was also no longer a buffer between Iran and the Arab world. It made possible those horrible individuals who call themselves ISIS.

President George Walker Bush should have resigned as a way to apologize for what he did.
 

<alt>doxygen

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Bush, Sr., invaded defenseless little Panama.
Bush, Jr., invaded Iraq (with disastrous results).
Obama overthrew that guy in Libya (with disastrous results).

Trump wants us to keep our nose out of other people's business.

I have a suspicion that some fair-minded liberals (there are a few!) admire President Trump's foreign policy decisions, but they are, understandably, terrified of letting their liberal friends know.

I agree with the idea that we should not be policing the middle east, but that doesn't mean I agree with what Trump is doing, which is capitulating to Iran, Russia and Turkey.
 

CriticalThought

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As we come on three years now with no new wars, and with Trump struggling against the Washington, DC establishment to roll back the wars we are in, the people who were screeching and screaming that Trump was going to get us into war with the Norks or into WWIII look pretty silly now.

Those who actually looked into what Trump was saying back then and what Trump is like told ya. He said the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. He even went to the extreme of saying that Bush lied about the reason for it. He emphasized and bemoaned the burden these endless wars puts on ordinary military people.

And it is beginning to dawn on some people that there is a big difference between Trump's sometimes belligerent rhetoric and what he actually does.



https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1077214937410400256

The only reason we are not at war with North Korea right now is Mattis and guess who just left.
 

TheParser

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I agree with the idea that we should not be policing the middle east, but that doesn't mean I agree with what Trump is doing, which is capitulating to Iran, Russia and Turkey.

I respectfully disagree that he is "capitulating" to those three bad guys.

Our President is very clever. (What a guy!)

He is letting those three bad guys get bogged down in the Middle East (just as we got bogged down in Vietnam).

I would not be surprised if eventually the leaders of those three countries are forced into "retirement" because of the absolute mess that they are getting their countries into.

And don't be surprised if those three bad guys start fighting among themselves. (How sweet it would be!)
 

RaleBulgarian

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You, like me, are entitled to your opinion.
I think that many people (such as I) respectfully disagree with you.
Yes, Hussein was brutal.
But we should have let the Iraqis handle him.
The war was absolutely ghastly. Horrible.
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died.
Before the war, Iraqis lived a relatively good life: Women and even gays had more rights than in most Arab countries.
The war caused unspeakable suffering to the common people. Iraq was also no longer a buffer between Iran and the Arab world. It made possible those horrible individuals who call themselves ISIS.
President George Walker Bush should have resigned as a way to apologize for what he did.
You paint a rather rosey picture of Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion that requires adjusting with facts:
“Iraq's era under President Saddam Hussein was notorious for its severe violations of human rights. Secret police, state terrorism, torture, mass murder, rape, deportations, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical warfare, and the destruction of southern Iraq's marshes were some of the methods the country's Ba'athist government used to maintain control.”
“In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein's government for its "systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law" and called on Iraq to cease "summary and arbitrary executions ... the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances".”
“In January 2004, Human Rights Watch stated: "Having devoted extensive time and effort to documenting [Saddam's] atrocities, we estimate that in the last twenty-five years of Ba'th Party rule the Iraqi government murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis, if not more."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein's_Iraq

Maybe we should have left the Iraqi’s to themselves. There’s plenty to argue in support of the invasion and against it, but let’s not pretend that life under Saddam Hussein was “relatively good”, because it wasn’t.
 

jnug

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I respectfully disagree that he is "capitulating" to those three bad guys.

Our President is very clever. (What a guy!)

He is letting those three bad guys get bogged down in the Middle East (just as we got bogged down in Vietnam).

I would not be surprised if eventually the leaders of those three countries are forced into "retirement" because of the absolute mess that they are getting their countries into.

And don't be surprised if those three bad guys start fighting among themselves. (How sweet it would be!)

2,200 troopers ain't troop levels at 550,000 troopers and 58,000 dead Americans over the length of the Viet experience. Not at all similar to the circumstances of Vietnam either in scope scale or intentions.
 

<alt>doxygen

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I respectfully disagree that he is "capitulating" to those three bad guys.

Our President is very clever. (What a guy!)

He is letting those three bad guys get bogged down in the Middle East (just as we got bogged down in Vietnam).

I would not be surprised if eventually the leaders of those three countries are forced into "retirement" because of the absolute mess that they are getting their countries into.

And don't be surprised if those three bad guys start fighting among themselves. (How sweet it would be!)

Time will tell if you are correct.

The move by Trump seems impulsive to me. The way everyone else involved reacted seems to support that idea.
 

JackA

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As sad as it is that this is viewed as some kind of remarkable accomplishment, your incoherent grasp of time and/or the English language is even more worrying. Trump has been president for less than two years :roll:

“As we come on three years now” is ambiguous since it is unclear whether the phrase refers to completion or beginning of year three, but in context the meaning is obvious, so it is wrong to say the OP was incoherent.
 

TheParser

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The move by Trump seems impulsive to me.



Thank you for your opinion.

We have been in that country since the days of the George Walker Bush administration.

No other president has had the guts to realize that Afghanistan is a basket case.

This president has had the courage to realize that enough is enough.

I would not call that "impulsive."

I would label it as "realistic."
 

jnug

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Thank you for your opinion.

We have been in that country since the days of the George Walker Bush administration.

No other president has had the guts to realize that Afghanistan is a basket case.

This president has had the courage to realize that enough is enough.

I would not call that "impulsive."

I would label it as "realistic."

Perhaps you would be better able to add to the discussion if you remembered that the specific and most "impulsive" decision is leaving Syria entirely.

Drawing down 7,000 troopers from Afghanistan should he do that as well would seem a bit impulsive. However considering the Trump Administration added 5,000 Troopers to Afghanistan removing 5,000 would simply say "In retrospect, I don't think we should have put 5,000 more troopers in on my watch". There, drawing down 7,000 total troopers would only seem impulsive in the number.

As I have oft stated in these pages, if Trump wanted to pull 2,200 troopers home, he should have pulled them from Afghanistan. It would have signaled nothing to either allies, enemies or adversaries, would not have abandoned our allies the Kurds to an almost certain doom and would have given our military the time it wants to complete the job in Syria with regard to ISIS and training the 40,000 Kurdish fighters to keep ISIS under some control. ISIS is not gone from Syria. All we have done is eliminate ISIS territorial control in Syria. ISIS is not a nation state, as such the case could be made that while ISIS got some political mileage out of controlling some territory for some time in Syria, taking, occupying and holding some territory in Syria was on balance the worst decision ISIS ever made.
 
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aks

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As we come on three years now with no new wars, and with Trump struggling against the Washington, DC establishment to roll back the wars we are in, the people who were screeching and screaming that Trump was going to get us into war with the Norks or into WWIII look pretty silly now.

Those who actually looked into what Trump was saying back then and what Trump is like told ya. He said the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. He even went to the extreme of saying that Bush lied about the reason for it. He emphasized and bemoaned the burden these endless wars puts on ordinary military people.

And it is beginning to dawn on some people that there is a big difference between Trump's sometimes belligerent rhetoric and what he actually does.



https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1077214937410400256

This is disingenuous at best. We weren't involved in a "war" in Syria. But it WAS in our country's best interest to maintain a presence there. Maybe had something to do with the Mattis resignation?
 

aks

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I respectfully disagree that he is "capitulating" to those three bad guys.

Our President is very clever. (What a guy!)

He is letting those three bad guys get bogged down in the Middle East (just as we got bogged down in Vietnam).

I would not be surprised if eventually the leaders of those three countries are forced into "retirement" because of the absolute mess that they are getting their countries into.

And don't be surprised if those three bad guys start fighting among themselves. (How sweet it would be!)

If you think our president is clever then you aren't paying attention. The idiot has no idea what's going on.
 
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