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Trump suggests proper raking might have spared California from its wildfires

Phlyboy

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So wait? Conservatives are now for environmental policies and pre-existing conditions? Is illegal immigration and abortion next??? Give me a break. This trump worship crap is ridiculous.
Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. This issue has nothing to do with immigration or abortion. It has to do with “au naturale” timber harvesting policies, which logging professionals have said for 3 decades will result in what we are seeing in CA today. They called it when the Spotted Owl was the poster child for enviro groups.
 

eohrnberger

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First. WTF is an ecomentalist? Second. what you are saying and what Trump is saying do not match in any way whatsoever. He simply has no idea what it is you are talking about and instead talks about raking the forest floor....

So either Trump thinks the only way his supporters (which I assume is you) will understand him, is to say these stupid things. Or he is really that stupid.

ecomentalist
Someone obesssivly concerned with the enviroment, hypocritically, who wants others to suffer to enforce a static notion of nature.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ecomentalist

The forest floor. Where do you think all the brush fuel for the fire is? Its growing on the forest floor.

It is this brush that needs to be cleared to control, reduce, the ferocity and intensity of the these large and nearly uncontrollable forest fires.

In fact, fires, much smaller less intense ones, are part of the natural events that the forest has already evolved and adapted to. Not the raging fires that the uncontrolled brush growth feeds, but smaller ones. There are some pine trees in these forests who's pine cones won't open unless and until they are exposed to fire. A small fire clears some of the brush so that the pine cone seeds can take root in the clear and fertile ground after the fire is out. So fire is part of the natural course of things in these forests.

So, yes, clearing the brush, raking it up, if you will, would reduce the damage caused by these large scale raging fires.

But you go on ahead and have your baseless fauxrage. I'll be leaving the thread now, as I'm pretty well fed up with such crap.
 

Accountability

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"until Trump knuckles under"
That is the essence of your problem. You want so desperately to control him. psssst: not gonna happen
 

eohrnberger

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But Climate Change in an environment where we have had twenty-six 500 year storms over ten years is just not a factor. Please....until Trump knuckles under on Climate Change he has no credibility in any discussion of forest management.

California is certainly free to chose to continue to allow the brush fuel to uncontrollably grow and to continue to fuel the ranging and destructive fires.
I think it'd be a wrong decision, but it's not my decision to make.
 

eohrnberger

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Who are these environmentalists against forest management. I've been an environmentalist over 20 years, lots of school, and I never met one.

Is there one here at this site? No. There isn't, is there. So who.

Kinda cited in the article:
Harvesting trees on public land is controversial but helps pay for needed brush clearing. Many environmental groups vigorously oppose both. But fighting the larger, hotter fires that result without active forest management is even more costly and threatens lives.

In California, tighter environmental controls, higher prices for timber harvesting permits and competition from overseas and pine forests in American Southeast led to a collapse of the state's timber industry. Employment in the industry in 2017 was half of what it was in the 1990s.

During this summer’s fires, outgoing California Governor Jerry Brown blamed the record-breaking fires on climate change. In a press conference he warned that the level of climate change-induced forest fires predicted in 20 to 30 years were “now occurring in real time.”

While the frequency of fire has declined, the area burnt and the cost to fight wildfires have increased. Understanding why this is the case is the critical component in crafting a public policy solution to address the issue of deadly forest fires.

Many urban liberals are calling for higher taxes on rural Californians to pay for firefighting.

Rather than higher taxes, one solution to the constant forest management funding shortage in California would be to look to the state’s multibillion-dollar cap-and-trade program designed to address global greenhouse gas emissions. California’s out of control wildfires may have emitted up to 50 million metric tons of carbon dioxide this year alone, about one-eighth of the entire state’s annual emissions, largely wiping out two decades of the state’s hard fought greenhouse gas reductions for 2018. Plus, unlike a natural gas-powered electric plant or a modern car, the fires cause terrible air quality.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckd...ires-could-have-been-mitigated-by-prevention/
(Bolding mine)

Profits from harvesting lumber pays or helps pay for clearing the brush fuel preventing the ranging fires. Sounds rather sustainable to me. I don't think that hiking taxes to pay for more firefighting is the best solution, kinda like closing the gate after the horses have left the barn.
 

ecofarm

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Kinda cited in the article:

(Bolding mine)

Profits from harvesting lumber pays or helps pay for clearing the brush fuel preventing the ranging fires. Sounds rather sustainable to me. I don't think that hiking taxes to pay for more firefighting is the best solution, kinda like closing the gate after the horses have left the barn.

So, who?

I've met thousands of environmentalists. In grad school, in work, in conferences. I've never met one against forest management.
 

Nickyjo

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California is certainly free to chose to continue to allow the brush fuel to uncontrollably grow and to continue to fuel the ranging and destructive fires.
I think it'd be a wrong decision, but it's not my decision to make.

Aren’t the national forests managed by the national forest service?
 

independentusa

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'needed brush clearing'



If harvesting 10-12 billion board feet of timber from national forests every year would make massive fires like what we've seen, growing larger each year it also seems, I'm prepared to harvest those 10-12 billion board feet of timber.

I wonder if the environmentalists eco-Nazis are going to allow this common sense measure, or not. More likely not.

Welp. Cali. I guess you'll just have to learn to live with these fires, if you prevent the clearing of the brush fuel that feeds them. But at least the ecomentalists will be happy.

And you would end up with the massive mud slides we now see coming.
 

Manc Skipper

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Nobody in Finland rakes the ground (aka "floor") in forests. It's cold there, and it only stops raining when it snows.
 

Hawkeye10

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eohrnberger

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And you would end up with the massive mud slides we now see coming.

I don't think they are talking about clear cutting the entire forest.
Clearly, that wouldn't help and would be worse, as it would result in mudslides.
I don't think that's what planned.
 

NeverTrump

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The forest floor. Where do you think all the brush fuel for the fire is? Its growing on the forest floor.

It is this brush that needs to be cleared to control, reduce, the ferocity and intensity of the these large and nearly uncontrollable forest fires.

In fact, fires, much smaller less intense ones, are part of the natural events that the forest has already evolved and adapted to. Not the raging fires that the uncontrolled brush growth feeds, but smaller ones. There are some pine trees in these forests who's pine cones won't open unless and until they are exposed to fire. A small fire clears some of the brush so that the pine cone seeds can take root in the clear and fertile ground after the fire is out. So fire is part of the natural course of things in these forests.

So, yes, clearing the brush, raking it up, if you will, would reduce the damage caused by these large scale raging fires.

But you go on ahead and have your baseless fauxrage. I'll be leaving the thread now, as I'm pretty well fed up with such crap.

I'm glad to see you have no problem with Trump talking like an idiot so you people can understand forest management (look up stuff about forest management and then claim he was right).
 

NeverTrump

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So, who?

I've met thousands of environmentalists. In grad school, in work, in conferences. I've never met one against forest management.

The conservative ones? They are usually on oil drills tbh. :mrgreen:
 

eohrnberger

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So, who?

I've met thousands of environmentalists. In grad school, in work, in conferences. I've never met one against forest management.

I'd suggest Google or pinging your network of ecologically minded folks. Taking a good idea to an extreme is rarely a good thing.
I suspect something like that's is what happened here, but I reserve the right to change my mind should more and different facts be substantiated.
 

NeverTrump

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He was referring to CLEAN CUTTING brush from around trees, and is absolutely correct, as any forest manager would tell you.


Leave it to the TDS left to be TOO STUPID to understand that.

Sure he was...
 

eohrnberger

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More like their boss cutting back on staff and resources. What's his name again?

As cited from the one article.

Harvesting trees on public land is controversial but helps pay for needed brush clearing. Many environmental groups vigorously oppose both. But fighting the larger, hotter fires that result without active forest management is even more costly and threatens lives.

In California, tighter environmental controls, higher prices for timber harvesting permits and competition from overseas and pine forests in American Southeast led to a collapse of the state's timber industry. Employment in the industry in 2017 was half of what it was in the 1990s.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...ires-could-have-been-mitigated-by-prevention/
 

NeverTrump

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The Europeans who first explored that area almost 500 years ago wrote in their journals about the wild fires.

Todays Leftists environmental hands off policies have recreated those conditions.

With proper forestry management and logging most fires would not happen.

That is what the President is suggesting.

No he said people should rake leaves... Nothing about logging or forest management. Do keep up.
 

eohrnberger

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I'm glad to see you have no problem with Trump talking like an idiot so you people can understand forest management (look up stuff about forest management and then claim he was right).

No, it wasn't looking anything up. The science channel and Nova have many wonderful documentaries, and this was in one of them.

Why don't try not being so nasty?
 

ecofarm

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Nobody in Finland rakes the ground (aka "floor") in forests. It's cold there, and it only stops raining when it snows.

There's deadwood removal, not raking. He almost got it right.
 
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